daemon weapon, black mace and rolling a 1

[nurglez]

Right, when you roll a 1 for your bonus attacks you take a wound, as per the daemon weapon special rule. When the black mace wounds a model (doesn't state enemy) and doesn't kill it, it must take a toughness test, failing this removes the model.

 

So I roll a 1, fail my 4++ and then take a toughness test as I though this would be cinematic, especially as I had just got slay the warlord with him. I failed the test and kill myself.

 

For a friendly game I'm not bothered, but is there a valid argument against this? the black mace has the daemon weapon, fleshbane and cursed special rules, so to me it makes sense that they would both work, however I can also see that its the daemon weapon special rule that hurts you, rather then the weapon, but it doesn't seem to specify this.

 

Thoughts?

[Dam13n]

Codex CSM page 30 - Daemon Weapon

"At the start of each fight sub-phase during which the bearer of a daemon weapon is locked in combat, roll a D6.  On a roll of 1, the model immediately suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed."

 

Codex CSM page 69 - Black Mace

"If a model suffers an unsaved wound from the Black Mace it must immediately take a toughness test.  If the test is failed, remove the model as a casualty with no saves of any kind allowed."

 

I'm sure the RAI is:  It is the Daemon Weapon special rule that causes the wound, not the Black Mace itself.

 

RAW-wise you could make a case for the bearer having to take a toughness test or die if he's wounded by the daemon weapon special rule of the Black Mace as it technically is the Black Mace that has caused the wound and it's special rule is pretty clear.

 

However the wound suffered doesn't use the profile (S, AP etc.) of the weapon in any way, so I doubt that the weapons special rules are intended to affect these wounds.

 

It's another example of GWs lack of proper proof reading.

[Squirrelloid]

Is the Black Mace special rule an element of the weapon profile, or an element of the weapon itself?  Because if it belongs solely to the *profile* then RAW it wouldn't apply to the Daemon Weapon rule (which does not use the profile).  If it's just a property of the weapon than RAW I think you have to roll.

[Dam13n]

It is the "Cursed" special rule on the weapons profile.

 

However as is so often discussed here the wording (as I've quoted above) can be interpreted in such a way that the wielder may be affected as it is the daemon weapon that inflicts the wound (via the daemon weapons special rule).

 

I would never play it that way personally, but I'm sure there are a few people who might try it on.

[nurglez]

Well I remembered reading that it was ambiguous, and for a friendly game I thought it would be funny to roll on, not expecting to get the 6 I needed to kill myself (mark of nurgle so toughness 5).

 

I am very much a devils advocate, able to see both sides to most rulings, and thus I am stumped. I am leaning towards cursed not affecting the lord if he roll's a 1 for the daemon weapon, but it sure is ambiguous...

[Dam13n]

It's "rule of having a laugh" vs "rule of playing comp"

 

If I was playing a mate and either winning by miles or losing by miles then I might try to kill my own general this way... it would be funny, primarily because I would then point out that he didn't kill my warlord, I did - no "slay the warlord" for you. :P

[Magpie]

I don't think it matters who Slays the Warlord, it's more "First to die by whatever means Warlord". If he dies by friendly fire or Gets Hot your opponent still gets StW

 

I do agree tho' that the Daemon weapon rule doesn't trigger the Black Mace T Test.

[Dam13n]

I was being facetious...

[nurglez]

I enjoyed slaying my warlord, it was a good day :D

 

i believe the intent is that daemon weapon doesn't trigger the cursed part, but raw i see how both options are valid, hence this thread.