DarkGuard Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Lets leave the bickering at home gents. If people have any comments to make that relate to the outcome of this rules question, then by all means post (it's why it's still open). If not, then let sleeping topics lie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 Gurth: I will only note that to "place the template" is a technical phrase refering to the p52 template procedures for firing the template, and consists of other restrictions besides the template being on the table. For instance, when you "place the template", you may not touch friendly models and must cover as many models as possible in the target unit. And I'm sorry if insisting the game is played by the rules, to the best of one's ability to do so, is so abhorrent to you. Typically when one plays a game it is good form to follow the rules. Some of us consider doing otherwise to be cheating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Gurth: I will only note that to "place the template" is a technical phrase refering to the p52 template procedures for firing the template, and consists of other restrictions besides the template being on the table. For instance, when you "place the template", you may not touch friendly models and must cover as many models as possible in the target unit. And I'm sorry if insisting the game is played by the rules, to the best of one's ability to do so, is so abhorrent to you. Typically when one plays a game it is good form to follow the rules. Some of us consider doing otherwise to be cheating. If you play anyone that thinks using the template to measure is cheating, you should stop playing that person. Period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Like I said, we had resolved this. There is a difference between using the length of the template (either using the template itself or a tape measure) to check whether a unit is in range and placing the template in order to establish the number of hits scored. Once we had overcome that, the issue resolved quite simply, breaking no RAW and giving a clear procedure to apply when using template weapons. As outlined by squirreloids pictures and my subsequent post. Now, squirreloid (the OP) seemed happy with this, so why this is being dredged up unnecessarily is beyond me. I would point you to DGs post above - unless there you have a poignant point to make on this subject, let this topic lie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Well, I remembered there was photocopyable cut-outs for blast and flamer templates in the BGB, so i measured the BGB official flamer template shape. It is not quite 8 3/16" long, which is shorter than even my 3rd edition plastic. I don't know what has me shaking my head more, that the hard plastic green ones are almost 8.5", or that in 3 separate instances of GW defined template sizes, none of them agree with each other. (And the difference is more than can be accounted for by measurement error, as the measurement error on both measures I made is +- 1/32", and the actual measurement for the book template would be 8 5/32" +- 1/32, while the 3rd ed. plastic is 8 8/32" +- 1/32, and I assume that Dam1en's tape measure has markings in sixteenths of an inch. He said short of 8.5", so if we assume 8 7/16" to be generously low, that's still not even close to either of the other two measurements even with a 1/32" error. And yes, 1/32 is the correct error - for a measuring device like a ruler, error is 1/2 the smallest marked increment, and you're supposed to ballpark to half of marked increments as appropriate). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yep, its even greater if you have a 2nd ed flamer... yegads. Those things are closer to 9 and a quarter IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yep, its even greater if you have a 2nd ed flamer... yegads. Those things are closer to 9 and a quarter IIRC. And there were three sizes (or was it two?). At one time Hand Flamers, Flamers, and Heavy Flamers all had their own template. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yep, its even greater if you have a 2nd ed flamer... yegads. Those things are closer to 9 and a quarter IIRC. And there were three sizes (or was it two?). At one time Hand Flamers, Flamers, and Heavy Flamers all had their own template. I remember 2, but its been... 14 years? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IIRC it was the hand flamer, flamer and sisters of battle flame cannon were the three different templates. The heavy flamer was the same as the flamer even back then. Whilst the flame cannon was basically 2 flamer templates side by side. I did have the hand flamer template way back when, but if it's anywhere it's somewhere in a wardrobe at my parents house ;) As we're on a nostalgia tour - does anybody remember the old sonic weapon template from the 2nd edition chaos book? I miss those wierd and wonderful aspects of 2nd edition sometimes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 IIRC it was the hand flamer, flamer and sisters of battle flame cannon were the three different templates. The heavy flamer was the same as the flamer even back then. Whilst the flame cannon was basically 2 flamer templates side by side. I did have the hand flamer template way back when, but if it's anywhere it's somewhere in a wardrobe at my parents house As we're on a nostalgia tour - does anybody remember the old sonic weapon template from the 2nd edition chaos book? I miss those wierd and wonderful aspects of 2nd edition sometimes. Found them, they are in the Dark Millenium book. Hand Flamer, Flamer, and Destructor (used by Eldar Psyker powers) templates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3398607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurth Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Gurth: I will only note that to "place the template" is a technical phrase refering to the p52 template procedures for firing the template, and consists of other restrictions besides the template being on the table.Thank you, you made me laugh out loud there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3399219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 IIRC it was the hand flamer, flamer and sisters of battle flame cannon were the three different templates. The heavy flamer was the same as the flamer even back then. Whilst the flame cannon was basically 2 flamer templates side by side. I did have the hand flamer template way back when, but if it's anywhere it's somewhere in a wardrobe at my parents house As we're on a nostalgia tour - does anybody remember the old sonic weapon template from the 2nd edition chaos book? I miss those wierd and wonderful aspects of 2nd edition sometimes. Found them, they are in the Dark Millenium book. Hand Flamer, Flamer, and Destructor (used by Eldar Psyker powers) templates. The Destructor template is the one on the right. http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb440/Cactus-/20130624_175626_zpsaac74e87.jpg Comparison with a Dark Vengeance flamer template. http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb440/Cactus-/20130624_175846_zps15c7bbd8.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3400319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 HAH! New I wasn't losing my mind! (Well, I am but not about that). Thanks, Cactus. I new I remembered a separate Heavy Flamer template... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3400328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 If I remember correctly, didn't the original Sisters of Battle Immolator use two flamer templates placed side by side? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3401162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Heavy flamer. You had a choice between a single template with two chances at hitting each target, or two templates side by side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276812-checking-range-with-template-weapons-how/page/2/#findComment-3401474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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