A List to fight CSM

[Cpt Lazarus]

Greetings

 

I have an upcoming fight against a friend/long time rival who i know is bringing his Chaos Marine army tomorrow. The last time we fought he tabled me. Quite embarrassing and I'm looking to avoid a repeat,. I'm looking for a list that can do well against him.  We're playing 2500 pts. I know a few of his army components that'll be there for sure.   Abbaddon with 10+ Termies, 2 defilers or maybe one and a hellbrute. 10 khorne berzerkers, 10 1k sons, maybe one or two more squads of marines. I'm fairly certain i'm facing a heldrake as well. To counter this i have available:

 

HQ

 

Capitan in PA SS/p-axe

Chaplain in TDA/chaplain w/jump pack

LIbby in TDA

 

Elites

 

10 Termies 1 HF 1 Cyclone ML

5 Assault termies mix TH/SS and LC's

3 Dreads; one MM DCCW, one AC DCCW, one Ironclad DCCW seigehammer

5 Vanguard 

9 Sternguard

 

Troops

 

3x tactical squads

5 scouts w/ snipers 1ML

 

Heavy

Pred annihilator

vindicator w/seige shield

10 man Dev squad; 3x PC 3x HB 1 MM 1 LC 3x ML. this is all my heavy weapons they'll be spread amongst the Tac squads as well

 

Fast 

 

5 assault marines

assault bike w/ MM

Land speeder typhoon, MM/AC

 

I also have a small Grey Knights Detachment; Castellan Crowe, 10x termies Dreadknight, 5 purifiers.

 

Thanks in advance Brothers!

 

[minigun762]

Some basic hints.

 

Use small arms to kill Thousand sons. It ignores their expensive 4++ save.

 

Big A is very tough. Don't engage if possible. Shoot the hell out of his squad.

Defilers are very durable to slow HP kills but die quickly to Melta. They are expensive too, nearly 200 points.

 

Berserkers can't assault of a Rhino, so unless they are in a Raider, just shoot them and counter charge. Deny them the charge is important.

 

Heldrake is really good but can't be everywhere. Aim for its soft rear.

 

Remember that Chaos units must challenge you or accept any challenge. Use this to protect squads by sacrificing the sarge.

[Cpt Lazarus]

K, i also forgot to mention that he Dual HQ's he'll bring Khârn or Arhiman as well

[minigun762]

K, i also forgot to mention that he Dual HQ's he'll bring Khârn or Arhiman as well

 

So Ahriman will likely be infiltrating 1-3 units, the Thousand Sons would be a likely candidate.

 

I'm not a pro with Codex Marines but I would focus on your ranged firepower, bring plasma weapons, assault cannons and missiles.

[nurglez]

If Abaddon is there he has to be the warlord, and so you can't use master of deception on Ahriman or Huron.

 

Plasma and melta are always a great choice against chaos. Nullzone also makes chaos weep, due to quite a few invulnerable saves.

 

Plasma cannons and demolishers excel against terminators of any flavour. But the main thing I would suggest is to play to the mission. You don't have to kill Abaddon if you can tie him up or slow him down, as he is rather expensive and mostly a beat stick.

[minigun762]

Good catch nurglez, you're right.

[DarkGuard]

In your army selection you're going to need plenty of plasma, to counter his MEQ units, some decent horde killing power should he field Cultists, and some very good AA power to get rid of Helldrakes. If he's using Defilers, then long range anti-tank and fast melta should also be good.

 

So with that in mind, draft a list, and we'll help you fine tune it.

[Cpt Lazarus]

thanks for the help brothers, fought him to a draw after 3 turns. think i could've won but our LGS kicked us out so they could close.

[Ishagu]

Take 2 Vindicators and 1 Storm raven being escorted by 2 Stormtalons with skyhammer missiles.

 

Drop tactical termies behind his lines or take them in LR.

 

Sternguard work also.

 

 

 

Im going to level with you. Chaos have similar options to us yet much cheaper in most cases. Not to mention their troops are better hands down.

 

If you want to win hammer him with vindicators and rule the skies with the raven and talons.

 

Use troops and transports to defend your tanks.

 

HB and assault cannons are no good imo.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Im going to level with you. Chaos have similar options to us yet much cheaper in most cases. Not to mention their troops are better hands down.

Well it depends. Are you talking about plague marines or noise marines as troops? They do cost a whole lot more though.

 

If you are talking about basic chaos marine squads, they do have a lot of options and are customizable, but they either cost the same as loyalist marines and are worse, or they cost way too much for what you get out of them. They used to be better in previous codices and are really not something to ogle anymore.

[Ishagu]

Their basic chaos marines can all be given boltguns, boltpistols and chainswords and still be the same price as c:sm marines.

 

Sure you can add marks of nurgle and all that to make them more expensive, but at least the options are there. Also, it sure must be nice to be able to take something as awesome as plague marines as troops just by assigning a mark to any random cheap lord...

 

And let's not mentions things like a full lascannon pred costing 20+ points less than our equivalent.

 

 

The new C:SM codex can't come quick enough...

[Deus de Mortalis]

The CSM squad costs 10 points less, but loses ATSKNF, combat tactics, combat squads, and the sergeant is forced to always make or accept challenges. If you buy CCW's and compare them to Grey Hunters, they cost slightly more and don't have ATSKNF, counter attack, acute senses, hidden power weapons, and are forced to challenge with the "champion of chaos" they have to pay for. These are things that Chaos players are constantly complaining about that put a serious hamper on their CSM squads. They have lots of options, but they become too costly without a whole lot of value added. An extra CCW doesn't help much when the squad gets wiped out in a sweeping advance.<br /><br />Noise Marines and Plague Marines are a better value than taking CSM squads with anything more than the cheapest upgrades, but they are not for everyone and do cost a lot of points.<br /><br />And don't worry about predators, the cost the same in the Chaos dex as in the DA dex, not that Chaos players don't have any better heavy support options.