irwit Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hi all I've always written Bjorn off because of his cost but I'm looking again after a recent thread about contemptors ... I think the important thing here is that he is a character, av13, and can charge turn one from a FW dreadnought drop pod. Now seriously can anything else come close to this? So correct me if I am wrong but he can issue challenges, has a precision shot assault cannon. So turn one, land as central as possible, charges the most threatening unit he can that cannot harm him ( should be a few at least), and can challenge a character. thus making sure he doesn't completely win the combat and is protected next turn from shooting. I'm seriously now considering this to go along with my 8 man WG combi plasma unit. Between the 2 I have firstly, the most dangerous target has 16 plasma shots turn one, another unit has a dreadnought to face cc with, and any hidden banners, fists etc, I can try and snipe with the ass cannon. I think he should be able to hold his own turn one a lot better compared to a regular dread. What do people think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yes can issue challenges and precision shoot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Don't think Björn can take a Drop Pod. But what makes you think he can charge from one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 I meant the dreadnought drop pod from forgeworld ( have edited) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 In that case, it's probably a solid idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yes, Bjorn is awesome now. I use him in my Lucius Drop Pod. The Lucius Drop pod is a fast attack choice for SM,DA,SW and Black Templar only, and it's rule states it must be occupied by a dreadnaught of any type from that army assigned to it before the game begins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulweih Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hyá brothers, I'm with my brother sturm moonwolf on this one, Bjorn turned nasty in 6th. with the Lucis pod. I've use Lucius Pods to great affect in past apoc games, the terrain test is new since Apoc 2nd Ed., but is doable. Concerning Bjorn again, you might not want to isolate him too much because of his rules, but as fearless ain't that bad no more maybe you do....I'll have to try and see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I would hope that one day we are given two options for drop pods. A lucius drop (0-1) for x-amount of points option and the standard drop pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Would love to see Lucius rules incorporated into the next codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Yeah I think with the Lucius thing it's pretty important to support the dread - especially if they're Bjorn. One way to do this is simply to go 3+ drop pods (deploying 2+ on turn 1) -that way he gets some Grey hunters or whatever to provide covering fire. Infiltrators could work, I think. Unfortunately, wolf scouts aren't quite as awesome as they once were. Bran Redmaw can allow a grey hunters pack to infiltrate though, which is nice (sadly they can't bring along an IC with them, not even Bran, which is kinda lame when you think about it!!). Having an infiltrator allows you to front load on turn 1 a little more than drop pods alone would like. E.g. 3 drop pods and 1 infiltrators means 3 units up front on turn 1 (normally you'd need to invest in 5 pods to do this). ...Alternatively, buy a few extra "dud" pods and deploy them empty? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Yeah I think with the Lucius thing it's pretty important to support the dread - especially if they're Bjorn. One way to do this is simply to go 3+ drop pods (deploying 2+ on turn 1) -that way he gets some Grey hunters or whatever to provide covering fire. Infiltrators could work, I think. Unfortunately, wolf scouts aren't quite as awesome as they once were. Bran Redmaw can allow a grey hunters pack to infiltrate though, which is nice (sadly they can't bring along an IC with them, not even Bran, which is kinda lame when you think about it!!). Having an infiltrator allows you to front load on turn 1 a little more than drop pods alone would like. E.g. 3 drop pods and 1 infiltrators means 3 units up front on turn 1 (normally you'd need to invest in 5 pods to do this). ...Alternatively, buy a few extra "dud" pods and deploy them empty? :P Wrong on two counts. Redmaw does not prevent an IC from joining the Infiltrating Grey Hunter pack(that would ge the Infiltrate USR), and having other units in Reserve does not change the number of Drop Pods that arrive on turn 1(unless you meant 2 Pods and the Infiltrating unit, by "up front"?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Count 1: brb38 "An Independent character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during the deployment." Count 2: yeah. I meant 2 plus infiltrators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Count 1: brb38 "An Independent character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during the deployment."Yeah, so as I said: it's not Bran preventing an IC from joining. And the USR only prevents ICs without Infiltrate from joining them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roma Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 wolf priest with saga of the hunter does the same thing anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 This argument about when you designate Patient Killers is on the Dakka forums if you want to dip in those polluted waters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 OK so I'm a little confused, dsw... are you saying that if you put an IC into a GH pack it counts as the same "squad" and therefore the IC gets infiltrate too? I'd always imagined there being some sort of difference between "squad" and "unit"... but maybe that difference is illusory. I had a wee look at the dakka forums (I think that's where it was, got there through googling) and they were talking about timing, which I think is a red herring. The question is: Is the IC part of the "squad"? If the IC is, then it seems that the IC gets the rule too. And can therefore deploy with the squad. If that's the case I'm glad you pointed out my wrongness. I'd certainly like to be able to infiltrate ICs with that GH squad. I'd probably add a Rune Priest... maybe even Bran himself (as well) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 OK so I'm a little confused, dsw... are you saying that if you put an IC into a GH pack it counts as the same "squad" and therefore the IC gets infiltrate too? No. An IC attached to a unit during gameplay is treated as part of that unit for all (well, most) purposes. It is never part of the "squad", IMO. But that is beside the point. There are ICs with Infiltrate. They can join the Grey Hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3394975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Yeah, that's what I thought. In which case let me amend my initial statement: "they can't bring along a non-infiltrator IC with them"... That is to say, every IC in the space wolf codex that I can't think of? You could of course attach some allied infiltrator IC to your GHs but (at least by my reading, though some dispute this based on timing of deployment) this would kinda make patient killers unnecessary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 So can I attach a wgpl to my scouts and they still infiltrate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Umm, perhaps someone can confirm but I'm pretty sure that's true, irwit. WGPLs are allowed to join scouts, because they're not ICs (just Cs) and aren't really "joining" in the IC sense of the term, so aren't restricted from joining infiltrating units like non-IC infiltrators are. And the weird FAQ-errata-rule (gotta love those eh?) about WGPLs joining scouts applies to BEL in particular, if I remember correctly. Not Scout/infiltrate (different rules). That's all from memory though.. may not be right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Yes, if I remember right as per the latest FAQ, WGPL can join a unit of WS & Infiltrate but not OBEL. Silly if you ask me but I just play this silly game for some silly reason that I haven't figured out yet. LOL!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 So can I attach a wgpl to my scouts and they still infiltrate? Yes, if I remember right as per the latest FAQ, WGPL can join a unit of WS & Infiltrate but not OBEL. Silly if you ask me but I just play this silly game for some silly reason that I haven't figured out yet. LOL!!!!Previously, a Wolf Scout unit (consisting of Wolf Scouts and a WGPL) could BEL and Infiltrate. With the current FAQ, they can still Outflank, but not use the BEL rules doing so. There is no prohibition on their ability to Infiltrate. But, I think this is getting kind of far from the OP question of Bjorn in a Drop Pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ok so here is a 1650 list including Bjorn. Let me know your thoughts. Bjorn + Lucius DP WL TDA TH SS, Bear 7 WG Combi Plsma, Pod 2 WGPL TDA CML -- Joins 10 man GH 1WGPL TDA Combi melta -- Joins 5 man pod GHs 2 x 10 GH 2xPlasma 5 GH melta, Pod 3TWC Fist 6 LFs 5 MLs Predator HBs. WL pods with combi plasmas death team and Bjorn. LFs and Predators target whatever can hurt Bjorn. GHs with CMLs that can precision hit again target any banners sergent etc. Bjorn goes for a turn 1 combat and challenges a sergent to make sure he does most damage in opponents turn. WL crosses fingers that whatevers left from all that plasma doesn't wipe him off the board next turn but with 3 wounds, EW and a 3++ he has as good a chance as anyone plus 7 wounds to hide behind. TWC hopefully get a free turns movement with a WL and Bjorn in enemy deployment zone so can make it to combat turn 2. I know this lacks the Scouts we mentioned but I've just bought a predator so it was scouts or a predator. Plus I think predator gives something for enemy to shoot at instead of the LFs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This has been my 1850 Bjorn list the past few months and it has been pretty effective against all comers so far.<br /><br />Bjorn<br />Wolf Priest w/Saga of the Hunter<br />10 Grey Hunters w/2x plasma guns, Mark of Wulfen, Power Axe, Drop Pod<br />10 Grey Hunters w/2x plasma guns, Mark of Wulfen, Power Axe<br />10 Grey Hunters w/2x melta guns, Mark of Wulfen, Power Axe, Drop Pod<br />5 Grey Hunters w/Flamer, Las/plas Razorback<br />5 Grey Hunters w/Flamer, Las/plas Razorback<br />Lucius Drop Pod<br />3 Hyperios Air Defense Launchers<br />6 Long Fangs w/5 Missile<br />6 Long Fangs w/5 Missile<br />Aegis Defense Line w/Icarus Lascannon<br /> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ok so your WP with GHs coming in from outflank. You can only come in from left or right and it is random? I would see that as just encouraging your opponent to bunch up in the rear centre of the board which is exactly what you don't want him to to ? I don't get that as a tactic? Also you arrive on a random turn ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276858-bjorn-in-a-dreadnought-drop-pod/#findComment-3395731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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