Tiger9gamer Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 So basically in a game it came up that skilled rider do not stack with shrouding and stealth. doesn't this make the dark shroud a little worse with the black knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Why would they not stack? They are two different rules that give different bonuses - SR gives +1 to jink while Stealth improves your cover save by one. So Black Knights who move and are in range of a Dark Shroud have a cover save of 4+, with +1 to the roll, meaning that you only fail on a roll of 1 or 2. It effectively gives you a 3+ cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirrain Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Wait, doesn't Stealth and skilled rider and shrouded all stack to give your BKs a 2+ cover save? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Only mathematically, not as a matter of principle: Jink gives you a 5+; stealth buffs this to 4+; shrouded buffs that to 2+; meaning that there's nowhere for Skilled Rider to increase it, since save buffs never go better than to 2+. SR would still stack with Stealth or Shrouded on their own, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Well i need to understand where RWBK get shrouded AND stealth... It's 2 different things The darkshroud gets the jink +1 if it moves 12" + 2 due to the shroud rule = 2+ cover save A unit of RWBK within 6" of a shroud gets the jink + 1 with the skilled rider + 1due to the proximity of the Darkshroud... = 3+ cover save + 1 if they turbo-boost = 2+ cover save So basically both gets a 3+ cover save which raise to 2+ if they don't shoot to move fast... Other than that you still have the possibility of a character on bike with shroud of heroes => jink + shroud +turboboost (or dark shroud within 6") = 2+ cover save But I don't understand when you're talking about a game where the rule don't stack... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Just going to copy and paste something I posted in my local gaming forum, since this question came up a few months ago. . . . I would say yes, they stack. Jink: Models with this rule moves in the movement phase, they get a 5+ cover. Skilled Rider: Ignores Dangerous Terrain tests and gains +1 to their Jink save. Stealth: Counts your cover save as 1 point better than normal. Skilled Rider improves your Jink save. And since Jink is a cover save, stealth would then make your cover save 1 point better. So a moving Skilled Rider biker would have a 3+ cover. A 2+ for turbo boosting as well! Add shrouded and you'll have a 2+ cover save for just normal moving. It works because jink is a cover save. Stealth improves your cover save while skilled rider improves your jink save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 the argument was, since it doesn't improve anything other than your jink saves and doesn't affect anything else. then boosts like stealth and shrouded do not affect it. is that true? because If not I was cheated outof a 2+ cover save Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggabertha Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Sounds to me, you were cheated out of a 2+ save. The abilities arguably stack to me and you'll always easily be able to reach at least a 3+ cover save. Stealth and Shroud definitely affect cover saves - which is what jinking is. Karma'll get them back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 He actually said he was cheated outof a 2+ cover save too. So, I'm guess he is only saying what he has experienced? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 You got cheated. Read what I posted, then read the rules. Stealth really does say it improves your cover save by one. Jink is a cover save. Skilled rider improves your jink. So they all stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Aaaaah ok got it The problem is that he considers the save granted by jink like a jink save and not a cover save. And since wordswise, jink is different from cover, a rule that improve cover doesn't improve jink. Am I right? To me it's like saying that the eldar fusion gun could not profit from the"melta" rule because its name is fusion gun and not melta gun. This weapon has the melta rule in its profile so you role the 2d6. Same thing here : jink gives you a cover save that may be improved (and denied) like any cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 oh okay, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Aaaaah ok got it The problem is that he considers the save granted by jink like a jink save and not a cover save. And since wordswise, jink is different from cover, a rule that improve cover doesn't improve jink. Am I right? To me it's like saying that the eldar fusion gun could not profit from the"melta" rule because its name is fusion gun and not melta gun. This weapon has the melta rule in its profile so you role the 2d6. Same thing here : jink gives you a cover save that may be improved (and denied) like any cover save. Pretty much, Jink is a special cover save. All skilled rider does is improve that Jink save while stealth improves your cover save. So all of them stack :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 It's not a special cover save, it's A cover save... More precisely it's a special rule that gives you a cover save. Just like aegis defense line is a special army choice that give you a cover save. Aegis gives you a cover save not because it says so. It gives you a cover save because it's a defense line and when you read the description of the defense line, it states that you gain a 4+ cover save. Do people argue that you cannot stack with the shroud bonus because it's a defense line cover save and not a cover save? No. Because it's a cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I think its worded the way it is to prevent skilled rider from boosting covers saves when your bikers are behind cover (and getting/using the save from that). So yeah, you probably got cheated out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 It's not a special cover save, it's A cover save... More precisely it's a special rule that gives you a cover save. Just like aegis defense line is a special army choice that give you a cover save. Aegis gives you a cover save not because it says so. It gives you a cover save because it's a defense line and when you read the description of the defense line, it states that you gain a 4+ cover save. Do people argue that you cannot stack with the shroud bonus because it's a defense line cover save and not a cover save? No. Because it's a cover save. Now you're just arguing semantics. We both agree that a skilled rider biker with stealth that moves gets a 3+ cover save. The question is answered :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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