Help against Guard

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I need some advice on fighting Guard. I haven't played against the IG yet but I have a 1750 game coming up soon. The list I will be facing is heavy with chimeras and two LRBTs with space marine allies adding a dreadnought and some marine infantry. I do not own enough ML to spam long fangs in that manner. I was thinking of drop podding into one section of his line in attempt to take on the army a piece at a time.

 

What units are generally best at fighting mech guard? Any general or specific tactics tha work against them?

 

Thanks!

[Ghostwolfalpha]

A drop pod dreadnought is good for putting the hurt on the tanks and serving as a distraction. You will come to hate the tank that bares our Primarchs name. They make a mess of our packs.

 

Landspeeders work well vs this type of list. They can pop transports or tanks. A double multimelta landspeeder is a frightnening thing to valuble tanks. Plus its speed will be a boon vs such a mobile army.

 

Take a vindicator and scare the marines. Its also a wonderful bullet magnet.

[Grey Mage]

Whirlwinds are good- S5 ordnance vs side armor can crack open a chimera, or frag the squad that came out of a cracked open chimera- if he parking lots them, youll get two :)

 

Drop Podding Grey Hunters- Id say if you only take two packs, make one melta and one plasma. Plasma is good vs light armor, with more shots- the Meltas should target the Leman Russes, particularly if theres an executioner on the field.

 

If you can take say... five DPs, Id do it. Target his artillery first- leman russ, any other HS tanks and then if you have leftover guns take on heavy weapon teams with a dreadnaughts assault cannon for the instant death.

 

Exploding vehicles kill massive amounts of IG, so let that pulverise his troops during the initial couple turns, target special and heavy weapon teams secondairily to the tanks- sure, weight of lasguns will kill marines, but 3x Plasmagun and a pistol will do it faster eh?

 

Landspeeders, particularly Typhoons, are always a welcome sight- theyre fast enough to get side armor shots, just tough enough to ignore lasguns, and have just enough range to avoid special weapons. Id still rather bring 3 whirlies than 3 typhoons though- but hey its a different slot so do what you want.

 

Id avoid terminators though- theres so much AP 2/1 they can spam its hardly worth the points investment, and rarely will you find a unit that needs their CC might. *shrugs*

 

Oh, and hey- Scouts, with a plasmagun or meltagun and a pair of pistols... runs about 130pts, walks in from the back and frags something important. Distracts him, and hey if they survive a turn you can take a 10 man platoon without worry after some pistol shots soften them up.

[dswanick]

Or fight IG with IG - an allied platoon of Al'Rahem's finest outfitted with meltaguns Outflanking his RAV10 Russ' will make a mess of his day.

 

If you're planning on going full-Pod anyway, Al'Rahem works well with them as his "must start in Reserve, and deploy be Outflanking" rule means he doesn't count against your Reserve limit. Plus, his whole Platoon counts as a single unit for rolling for Reserve availability and board edge for deployment.

[Vlk]

I have quite a good record against Guard - and I play a full Drop Pod army. At 1750 pts., that´s about 8 Drop Pods laden with 4x Grey Hunters with a meltagun (led by WGs with SCCWs and combi-meltas), 1x Grey Hunters with plasmaguns, 1x Blood Claws with a flamer (led by a WG with a heavy flamer and an Axe), a unit of WG terminators and a HF/TLHF Dreadnought. The army is led by a Rune Priest. This is my standard army, nothing tailored specifically to fight against the Guard.

 

Definitely land on one flank with the first wave, you want to concetrate your firepower on a smaller part of his force. Basically, if you can survive the first turn after you´ve landed, you can get to CC and you´re golden as you will rip any vehicles and squads apart. Against guard, it´s just close combat, close combat, close combat. Use the first wave´s shooting to kill his transports and Leman Russes. Keep your spacing - if you do that, Executioners stop being frightening and become just a huge loss of points. What should worry you are Demolishers and standard LRBTs with Battle Cannons - those things are nasty but you only need to survive one turn and then wipe them out by slamming power fists and Krak grenades into their rear armour or kill them with meltaguns.

 

If there is a blob with power axes and a commisar, thin it down (possibly try to kill the commisar and seargants with Jaws), it´s really not as menacing as it looks. Bolters can do wonders. If there are Vendettas, ignore them, there´s really not much you can do about them with a full drop army. ASAP kill the command squads and seargants; the Guard is not so painful to fight against if there is nobody to issue orders and if the squads only have Ld of about 7. They run away like rabbits.  Don´t forget to shoot with your Drop Pods, all those storm bolters can really work to force Ld checks, kill exposed seargants or special weapons operators and thin the numbers of squads you want to charge. If the opponent holds his troops in a tight formation, don´t forget you can throw a frag grenade - sometimes that´s really handy.

 

Really, if you go Full Drop, mechanized Guard is not the worst thing out there to stand against.

[hendrik]

as a guard player myself i can tell you we don't like flamers. the main asset of a mechanised list (and if he plays veteran heavy) is that he can fire all his 3 special weapons from inside the chimera.

remember that he can't put any orders on unit inside a chimera (he can issue orders, but units inside a chimera can't recieve them.)

i think a multi melta dreadnought+flamer CCW is a good unit here. i also wouldn't bother with wolf guard pack leaders since in general he'll stay away from CC. the 2nd special weapon will come in more usefull.

 

Now i'm not sure, but if you put a meltagun and a flamer inside the same unit, can you use the melta to open te chimera and then use the flamer to roast whatever comes out? anyway, double tap with your rapid fire bolters should take case of those veterans

[Quillen]

Indeed. I drop pod alot and taking GH packs with 2 specials will work wonders on him.

 

I usually have 3 Packs with double Melta guns and 2 packs with flamers. I 2 pods close together one to kill a tank/transport. The second squad kills what was in the transport.

 

Once your running through his guys it's going down hill fast for him.

 

Also for some cheese you can put Logan in a pod with Long fangs. Give them all melta cannons and let the fin begin. Add in a Wolf Gaurd with Cyclone and something fun for melee and let the ass kicking begin. You can also run a rune priest with them. This Pod always makes it's points back in style. A friend of mine runs Arjac with it. So you have a strength 10 thrown hammer cracking the back side of tanks. It's expensive thou and you have to support it.

 

Logan gives them the ability to shoot when they land and then you move them across the field slaughtering anything dumb enough to stick around.

 

I have also run it with 3 Multi Meltas and 2 plasma cannons. The meltas pop tanks or transports and the plasma pounds the exposed trooops from transports. It works wonders, and you can kit the Long Fang pack leader for CC so you have another nasty meleer in the squad.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Lots of great ideas! Much appreciated!

 

Given my available models (only 3 drop pods) I am going to try this list out.

 

Wolf Priest

meltabombs, sago of the hunter, warlord

* leads GH 3

 

Rune Priest

divination

* leads a LF pack

 

5 Wolf Scouts

2 x plasma pistols, 1 x plasma gun, meltabombs

 

Dreadnought

multi-melta, drop pod

 

GH 1

10 grey hunters, 2 x meltaguns, 1 x powerfist, drop pod

 

GH 2

10 grey hunters, 2 x meltaguns, 1 x powerfist, drop pod

 

GH 3

10 grey hunters, 2 x plasma guns, 1 x plasma pistol, 1 x powerfist

 

Landspeeder Typhoon

multi-melta

 

Landspeeder Typhoon

multi-melta

 

LF 1

6 long fangs, 5 x missile launchers

 

LF 2

6 long fangs, 5 x missile launchers

 

LF 3

6 long fangs, 5 x missile launchers

 

Turn 1 the two GH pods drop in front of his LRBTs and attempt to take them down with melta shots. The long fangs target the chimeras and the LSTs zip to a side to line up flank shots or force him to split his fire away from the GH. The dreadnought pod, when it arrives, will attempt to land to the rear of his line and pop something with the multi-melta. Hopefully the scouts arrive on the back table edge and can pop something in the rear armor with the combined plasma goodness. GH 3, depending where it arrives, will move to add fire support wherever it is needed.

 

I am a bit concerned about having too few troops but I think this will come down to kill points rather than objectives. I'll have to be aggressive and take the fight to him immediately. I'm also a little concerned that if I don't get the first turn he'll paste my LF packs before they can do anything.

[Baba Lem]

I'd lose the powerfists in the GH squads. The amount of points you're paying for one attack, two on the (counter)charge is too damn high. Replace it with MotW and a Wolfbanner for the squad. If you're concerned about the first turn, lose the Fangs for more podding Hunters.

[hendrik]

personally i think you don't need those long fangs at all. bring in more grey hunters and bring them in close!

in fact, you could even consider dropping some smaller 5-6 man units in that support the other grey hunter packs later on in the game

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I would like to drop pod more GH in but I do not have the models at the moment. I do have two rhinos and two razors but I think they would get blasted by his gun line early on.  

[hendrik]

it all depends, are those guns still standing? are they occupied? what is his target priority? what sort of marines will he take with him?

 

veterans in a chimera typicalls cost around 130-170 pts, so are in the same area as a grey hunter pack without transports. your first concern is getting those transports cracked open, together with destroying those leman russes.

A quick, often game winning tactic is to crack open his command squad their chimera and wipe them out quickly. not only will you hopefully get first blood, but you'll also score slay the warlord. that's two secondary objectives rightaway.

 

you'll also want a small unit capable of grabbin an objective later on in the game(primary objectives). hence i suggested a couple of smaller grey hunter packs in a droppod (you could proxy some CD disk as droppods if that's ok with your opponent), you'll get more droppods in, more flexibility and at only a minor extra price. note that these squads can be killed off more easely, so they'll act mostly as support units.

5grey hunters:flamer, droppod come in at 110 pts, that's a cheap and good supporting unit. while the dual melta packs open up his armour these smaller units come in roasting the remaining units.

the landspeeder typhoons don't need those multi meltas either. you'll have to choose here, or you'lls tay at arms length and try to open up armour with those S8 shots, or you drop the typhoon missile launchers and go dual multi melta or multimelta+heavy flamer.

droppodding dreadnoughts also work best in pairs, and are relatively cheap too