Chainswords4life Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 do you think with the new overwatch rule our assault squads will still be a good troop choise? Of course they are still good against veichles since they cant overwatch and we cam throw krak grenades but against hords we are dead thats why i intend to fight fire with fire by using scouts with sniper rifles and tactical squads and of course death company with men to spare in case of overwatch (especialy if fighting tau with their new support fire rule) -Chainswords4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I never stopped using tactical squads... I think we may need to be a little pickier about what we assault, but marines are pretty resilient to fire, and overwatch is only hitting on 6s. The major effects of overwatch are: 1. template weapons are much scarier, 2. Units we expect to lose to in assault now win harder (because they get to fire too), and 3. equal matches typically favor the defender. I suppose Ork shooting doesn't suffer much from being overwatch, so charging orks is *a lot* scarier because it gives them an extra turn of firing, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Heh. The 'new' overwatch rule. 6th has been out for about a year now, eh? Use tactical marines to thin the horde, or put a character at the front. 20 ork shoota boys, overwatch your ASM, get 7-8 hits, 4 wounds, 1 failed save, 1/3 chance of FnP'ing it away. Small potatoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full_ork Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I think for you guys it's more of an issue against stuff like guard and tau, guard because of the special weapons, and tau because of the support fire and the st5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huginn Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I either thin the squad I am going to charge out with some shooting to even the odds. Or use FnP troops to just not care about overwatch. The only time it has had any noticeable affect is causing me to fail a charge. But my guys were strung out in a line. Proper charge formations really help against new tau support fire rules other armies overwatch is not too scarry to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Office temp Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I haven't suffered much from overwatch, but I did have a game where my Tac squad wiped out an DE warrior squad with overwatch. I was just as surprised as my opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomkapow Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 assault marines with 2x flamers and a combi flamer is a dangerous wall of death unit. If anything, that build got better for assault marines. especially vs. horde armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamons Redeemer Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 how about assaulty gunslingers ? duelwielding handflamers ? burn baby burn ! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Since overwatch only affects the first unit that charges, use our speed to get more than one unit charging. Charge a shooty unit wit a dreadnaught first so it's 12/13 armor will soak up the small arms and then charge in with your assault marines. They work very well together and can supplement each other's weapon options. Also, if you take a Furioso Librarian, it can keep up with the jump troops using wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Multi-charges are much more difficult with overwatch and the loss of the charge bonus. Overwatch isn't the only thing in sixth edition that diminishes the strength of assault-focused units. Random charge distances, pile-ins at initiative values, the stratification of power weapon rules, increased rate of fire for rapid fire weapons, and changes in cover values all combine to diminish the strength of close combat when compared to the shooting phase in this edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminatorAM Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Multi-charges are much more difficult with overwatch and the loss of the charge bonus. Overwatch isn't the only thing in sixth edition that diminishes the strength of assault-focused units. Random charge distances, pile-ins at initiative values, the stratification of power weapon rules, increased rate of fire for rapid fire weapons, and changes in cover values all combine to diminish the strength of close combat when compared to the shooting phase in this edition. Isn't the charge bonus only lost if one unit charges two units, not if two units charge one? Otherwise, I completely agree with you. Since we still are an assault oriented army, suitable to 6th ed. or not, we need to learn to adapt or die. We are still the most mobile marine army other there so I think we need to use that speed so we can pick our fights and assault what we can to win through outnumbering our foes and avoiding those we know we can't. BA armies need a good amount of shooting units, but our troops will still likely include assault marines which now need to play save and should have good supporting units around them. Since we will never be able to out shoot armies like Tau of IG, we need to become masters of the double-tap. Either assault an enemy after shooting them up or overwhelm them by charging with multiple units. Speed is the key to this strategy, one of the only things assault marines didn't lose in 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 "Isn't the charge bonus only lost if one unit charges two units, not if two units charge one?" - Yes, that is what I meant by multi-charges. I apologize if I made it sound like two units assaulting a single unit made one lose attacks. I think Baals are a virtual requirement now. The amount of ranged fire they can generate is one means of taking advantage of the changed meta of ranged combat vs close combat. I also think our vehicles being fast makes Blood Angels armies one of the best mechanized options in the game, but that is off-topic here. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well, that is why we still should never leave without 1 or 2 Sanguinary priests. Overwatch: No problem, if they hit, we get armor saves, if they fail, we get FnP... aslong priest is with us. BA still got some of the most resilient basic assault squads in the game. One of the fastest too. Unit of 10 BA assault marines with 2 flamers and sarge with handflamer + power weapon / chainsword is one of those units you really do not want to charge if possible. Perfect for holding objectives while bringing tactical marines to support. I think you need now consider how you play and then choose your play style best support choice for assault marines. I prefer tactical marines in fast rhino bolter fire and missile to group your assault marines are about to charge tends to make alot easier your assaulting. tactical marines bolter fire + bolt pistols of assault marines makes your enemy taking some damage before assaulting making overwatch less effective. Baal's work wonderfully too. Especially Dakka variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So far im unimpressed with overwatch. Its painfull if plasma/melta hits but thats quite rare. Normal bolter shots or anything else that allow armor saves are pretty much negliable I feel. That said a buddy of mine used to run a 30 boyz mob of orks with shootas. Suddenly not so confident about charging those anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Shameless self-quote from another thread: Mephi charging 3 meltavets and dying to triple sixes in overwatch. Followed by mephi charging three plasma vets and another triple six, TWO TIMES! I really HATE overwatch -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I have yet to see Overwatch do anything truly noteworthy like deny a charge or knock off a character. Since overwatch only affects the first unit that charges, use our speed to get more than one unit charging. Charge a shooty unit wit a dreadnaught first so it's 12/13 armor will soak up the small arms and then charge in with your assault marines. They work very well together and can supplement each other's weapon options. Also, if you take a Furioso Librarian, it can keep up with the jump troops using wings I like this a whole lot. Combined arms! Plus I like dreadnoughts. I also think our vehicles being fast makes Blood Angels armies one of the best mechanized options in the game, but that is off-topic here. I agree. I thought so in 5th as well. And it was the list to beat in my group. These days, I always seem to want to crowbar a Baal Predator and a fast Vidicator into my lists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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