Friz 80 Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I am back from my work trip and wanted to stop in and say hi. I also wanted to thank you all on the advice you have given me,and I am sure I will need more soon. I am going to post a few pics later of the models I have painted so gat so you guys can tell me what you think. Also quick question boys, do you know where I can buy for reasonable price the imperial armour 1@ and the apocalypse 2 nd edition so I can get contemptor rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 You may wanna hold of on apocalypse as the rumor mill says they are cranking out the new apocalypse rules in July. Otherwise I would go for eBay Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3394934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friz 80 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Thanks ! I will keep looking. I realy want the rules for redmaw, and the contemptor :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The rules for Bran so far are in the Doom of Mymeara book IA 11. AS jbickb suggested, I would hold off on Apoc as everyone has pointed out they are likely to redo the rules. Another suggestion is to wait for the Apoc release as well as the new Space Marine Codex from GW. I don't believe they will put the Contemptor out through GW but the IA Space Marine book has been out of stock for awhile same as the Tauros Campaign book for the Tau. ForgeWorld re-released the updated Tauros Campaign book a week or 2 after the release of the new Tau dex & I think we will see them do the same with new Space Marine dex. I expect to see a re-released IA Space Marine book with the new GW space Marine dex. That should have ALL the current units & rules for anything Space Marine. Perhaps even rules for Bran as well but this is GW & Forgeworld we are talking about so who knows. My 2 cents anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Just be glad they never released the pile of that they were going to for Bran. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 bran his rules aren't that impressive either. but then again I am a bit biased considering the release from forgeworld made me stop playing a bran redmaw great company since i despise the new fluff for him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 More fun with just the little info there was before. More room for players to be creative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 it's just that forgeworld decided to ignore a crapload of fluff already out there, only to sell more SW goodies. I mean, they have a runepriest write down verses!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Classic cae of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing?!?!??LOL!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hendrik, are you aware of the 6e update for Bran? He's a monstrous creature (after the metamorphosis) and an IC. That means he can hide in a unit, unlike most MCs. And at 6 WS7 S7 AP2 init 6 attacks on the charge (or 4 at S10)... he's pretty deadly. The only sucky thing is the lack of an armour save and 3 wounds (low for a monstrous creature, for sure), but he does have toughness 6 and FnP. And unlike most other MCs he gets to hide in a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 but won't most of his opponents still get their armour save, or was that adapted too? anyway, my main dislike for bran is the "hey look at me, i'm a gaint werewulf, i can turn gaint wulfen whenever i want and then get normal again. It's a lame idea and execution of the curse of the wulfen! and strictly goes against the previous written material about "true"(not sorcery induced) wulfen, which is a permanent thing in the end. Second of all, how can a wolf lord fall to this curse in every battle! turning wulfen means a lack of selfcontrol, it means you're losing the fight to the inner wolf! they should just have made bran wulfbitten, like ragnar. you don't see ragnar turning into a gaint werewolf every battle. does ragnar really have more self control then bran? In fact, it's even made clear bran is incapable of command when he turns,(every battle). isn't this "pointless" for a wolf lord? but it doesn't just stop there: -rune priest suddently write down all their sagas etc -units all labeled as squads I found it to be pretty "meh", if not even a blatant insult to the wolves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 @ Hendrik--I'm with you about the whole fluff point of view. I find him an oxymoron type deal. His fluff & concept are nothing like the previous fluff says & hopefully down the road they will address that but I will not hold my breath. On the other hand, he does bring some interesting possibilities to the table. He's an MC as the Redmaw so he has all their USR rules most importantly Smash. This makes all his attacks AP2 a s well as a reroll for Armour Pen. plus his other rules like Patient Killers. Having not yet played with him( Ijust got my Doom of Mymeara-appearently an old copy with the updated FAQ) as I still have to come up with an appropriate Redmaw model. As an aside, here is a silly question for everyone. Because of the latest FAQ, WGPL cannot join Wolf Scouts if they are going to OBEL. What about the Gray Hunter pack using Brans Patient KIllers rule. Can they be joined by a WGPL & if so can they or can they not wear TDA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I agree that a wolf lord would not endanger his packs by turning into a rage filled killing machine no longer able to lead his men. I could see having a giant wulfen to use as a line breaker, but it should be a permanent thing as the fluff says. I hope that any new fluff and rules stop painting us as a bunch of bearded drunks who boast about their greatness. The Space Wolves are proud and honorable, not space dwarves that befriend wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 . Because of the latest FAQ, WGPL cannot join Wolf Scouts if they are going to OBEL. What about the Gray Hunter pack using Brans Patient KIllers rule. Can they be joined by a WGPL & if so can they or can they not wear TDA. Q: Can a Wolf Guard Pack Leader or Independent Character join a squad of Wolf Scouts grey hunters(patient killers) and benefit from the Outflank special rule because at least one model has the ability? (p27) A: Yes. Q: If so, do they roll to see where they enter play using the Wolf Scouts’ Behind Enemy Lines special rule or the normal Outflank special rule? (p27). A: The normal Outflank specialrule. all restrictions as per wolf scouts apply in my opinion, since forgeworld hasn't updated any rules from their website(or,rather, it's not available anymore if there was one? ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 The problem you run into with your cut and paste is that the models are not benefiting by one model on the unit having the Outflank special rule, but by the unit being designated Patient Killers. Patient Killers has no specific timeline. Place GH unit in Reserves with attached IC and joined WGPL. Designate them Patient Killers. Declare that the unit will be Outflanking. GH unit enters via OBEL. At no time did the IC or WGPL gain the ability Outflank from the GH unit. They gained the Outflank USR and OBEL special rule by way of Patient Killers. The FAQ does not apply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 hm, interesting way to look at it. I guess you can argue both ways(do youdeclare patient killers before you declare pack leaders,etc (come on FW, make a FAQ!), so maybe as your opponent what he feels is right Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 hm, interesting way to look at it. I guess you can argue both ways(do youdeclare patient killers before you declare pack leaders,etc (come on FW, make a FAQ!), so maybe as your opponent what he feels is right Well, declaring Outflank and placing units in Reserves are both done during deployment so neither takes precedent. Patient Killers has no timeline, so it can be inserted where it is needed IMO to make sure that GH units with attached IC and WGPL can Outflank via OBEL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 The problem you run into with your cut and paste is that the models are not benefiting by one model on the unit having the Outflank special rule, but by the unit being designated Patient Killers. Patient Killers has no specific timeline. Place GH unit in Reserves with attached IC and joined WGPL. Designate them Patient Killers. Declare that the unit will be Outflanking. GH unit enters via OBEL. At no time did the IC or WGPL gain the ability Outflank from the GH unit. They gained the Outflank USR and OBEL special rule by way of Patient Killers. The FAQ does not apply. Just out of curiousity if this is a direct quote from the rules shouldn't the "them" be the grey hunters and their attached buddies. After all it says "Place GH unit in Reserves with attached IC and joined WGPL. Designate them Patient Killers" so it seems to indicate that the timing of this declaration would allow the attached character's to be part of it. I don't have the book so no clue if this is a quote but if so that is how I see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3395958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 OK, I really should post only when I've had sleep & not after being out with friends! LOL!!! After reading everyone's input & rereading IA 11 here we go. From the Patient Killer's paragraph:If Bran is leading your army then 1 unit of GH maybe use Infiltrate & Behind Enemy Lines rules exactly as if they were Wolf Scouts. So to answer my own silly question--No. Out of luck. Do not pass GO & do not collect $200. You cannot give them a WGPL & OBEL. Ooops. Sorry everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3396072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 FAQ does not apply. They are not gaining Outflank by virtue of at least one member of the unit having the ability to which the FAQ is specific in addressing. They are gaining Outflank by being part of the unit when designated as Patient Killers. Patient Killers bestows Outflank and OBEL, not the mechanic addressed in the FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3396732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 OK, I really should post only when I've had sleep & not after being out with friends! LOL!!! After reading everyone's input & rereading IA 11 here we go. From the Patient Killer's paragraph:If Bran is leading your army then 1 unit of GH maybe use Infiltrate & Behind Enemy Lines rules exactly as if they were Wolf Scouts. So to answer my own silly question--No. Out of luck. Do not pass GO & do not collect $200. You cannot give them a WGPL & OBEL. Ooops. Sorry everyone. Yes you can because a WGPL counts as part of the unit they join for all purposes. Scoring, coherency, and this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3397144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 One slightly weird thing though, is that patient killers is given to a "grey hunters squad." Does "squad" mean the pack only? Or the unit (pack + IC)? This is a pretty big deal because you could potentially attach, say, Arjac and 2 rune priests, depending on the way the rule was interpreted (sadly, they don't get a Scout redeploy too... that would be frikken sweet). And an infiltrating rune priest can use maledictions/blessings etc on turn 1, unlike one coming in from reserves in a pod or whatever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3397788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Hang on... does that "no movement phase psychic powers when coming in from reserves" thingy even apply to turn 1 drop pods? They're not coming in from reserves, at least not according to our codex. They just can't ASSAULT turn 1 (it doesn't mention that they "count as" coming from reserves, as far as I can see or recall) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3397792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Drop pods are in fact coming in from reserves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276912-hey-guys/#findComment-3397828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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