Terminators!

[Ravenfeld]

Hypothetically,

 

If you were to run a full 10 man terminator squad with accompanying terminator HQ, how would you build it?

 

Would the HQ be a Lord or a Sorc?

 

How many Combi Weapons, What Melee weapons would you equip them with?

 

I am curious because I have a neat kit bashing idea for some Ex-Word Bearer terminators that I would like to make, but I wanna know how I should equip them for their role on the battlefield!

 

Thanks!

[Smurfalypse]

When I run a large unit of Terms with an HQ (usually a Sorcerer) I run all with combi-weapons of some sort, usually mostly plasma. I also run the Sorcerer with the Brand. For CC weapons I do a mix of axes and mauls then maybe one or two chain fists. 

 

Just my personal preference.

[Ravenfeld]

What powers do you generally run with your Sorc, and do you deep strike them or walk em up?

[Smurfalypse]

What powers do you generally run with your Sorc, and do you deep strike them or walk em up?

 

Sometimes I walk them, sometimes I deepstrike them. Depends on what my opponent is playing and if I need them on the board to start or not.

 

Most of the time I will go three rolls on Biomancy, sometimes I also do some rolls on Telepathy. Just depends on what I am facing.

[Xenith]

I would run them like:

 

2 heavy flamers for overwatch and hordes, 3 combi melta, 5 combi plasma.

 

Second HQ is Huron to infiltrate them.

 

Mark of tzeentch and mostly axes, 1 chainfist, or mark of slaanesh, banner of excess and swords with the odd claw, 1 chainfist.

 

For bonus points, go MoT, have your first HQ as Ahriman with 3 rolls on biomancy and either Ahriman gets to be a combat monster, or you get awesome with enfeeble or endurance.

[zyl-]

We can put sorcerors in terminator armor and even 2 characters in 1 deathstar if we want to. Typhus and a nurgle sorceror with terminators. Abaddon and an ubmarked sorc with slaanesh terminators and an icon.

[Brother Aiwass]

Abby+10 Termies (2 RAC, 1 CF, 1 PF, 8 combis, MoT). That is just my humble opinion.

[Ravenfeld]

Barring the use of Special characters what would you do? Two characters in the unit, one CC Lord / One Sorc? Alot of eggs to be wandering up field or deep striking no?

[Deus de Mortalis]

Deepstriking 12 terminators sounds a bit difficult. But unless you are playing against a pure CC army, you would need to deepstrike. Abaddon, a sorcerer with the brand, two heavy flamers with chainfists, and 8 combi-plasma with power axes, would be hitting pretty hard. I would leave the sorcerer and the terminators unmarked, they already cost a lot, the sorcerer can get better powers without a mark, and there are a lot of bodies there to take wounds. Total cost of the deathstar would be 778.

 

To save a bunch of points, you could do without Abaddon, but then they aren't so super killy in CC. You could run them just with the sorceror, or you could add a chaos lord, but I always feel that chaos lords end up costing more than they are worth. Maybe just giving him terminator armor, and a combi-bolter?

[nurglez]

I'd go terminator lord, combi plasma, mark of nurgle and blight grenades, 10 terminators (unmarked), 2 heavy flamers, 4 combi plasma  (1 on the unit champ) 4 combi melta, 1-2 chainfists and a mix of mauls and axes.

 

I'd try and have a sorcerer or huron as my second HQ. Sorcerer to hopefully buff them with invisibility and Huron to infiltrate them if needed :D

 

Main reason I prefer a lord over a sorcerer to lead them is due to fearless. otherwise your squad could run away or get sweeping advanced in combat.

 

I have actually been considering a terminator heavy force, with either minimum cultists for scoring or just a few marine squads. Wouldn't be a serious army but might be fun :D

[Prot]

Special character wise I add Huron and give the Termies a Landraider transport for infiltrating. At a larger squad, I've had Huron walk in with the Termies depending on the scenario. It's good stuff. I"ve even had a sorc in there.

 

I really like Typhus too. For two reasons: He gets to pick all of his sorc stuff from the Nurgle section which is ok. It keeps him potent even if he has to walk to wail on something... it gives him something to do. Plus he's pretty beasty.  Bonus: He unlocks the zombie cultists so this helps balance points when buying troops for that expensive Termie list.

 

Vanilla HQ: Sorc, in Termie armour for Deepstrike. I find being forced to take a power from the main rule book REALLY makes it hard to plan for anything (why did they do this? I still don't get it.) But that's my choice for generic HQ with them. You can be cheap with a Sorc too if need be.

[Deus de Mortalis]

The problem with Huron is that if you roll a 1 for the inflitrating squads, the special character can't accompany the infiltrating terminators. So although infiltrating terminators might be pretty strong by themselves, they lose the buff and/or challenging capability from the independent character, and you are stuck with a sorceror or lord in terminator armor that you don't know what to do with.

[Ravenfeld]

Wait, when you infiltrate using Huron IC's count as seperate units for the sake of how many you infiltrate? They don't count as "attached" to the unit that is infiltrating?

 

If that is the case then two players at my store have been cheating, haha!

 

I would really prefer to avoid using special characters if at all possible. If my hand is forced i'll devise some clever "counts as" justifications I suppose.

[Prot]

The problem with Huron is that if you roll a 1 for the inflitrating squads, the special character can't accompany the infiltrating terminators. So although infiltrating terminators might be pretty strong by themselves, they lose the buff and/or challenging capability from the independent character, and you are stuck with a sorceror or lord in terminator armor that you don't know what to do with.

 

 

Here we go, I was waiting for this.

 

It does work... I'll just dig up one of the old threads for you:

 

1. Huron gets Infiltrate.

 

2. Page 38 says the unit only needs 1 model for them all to infiltrate, so he joins terminators, who now infiltrate.

 

3. Page 38 also says if the unit deploys in a dedicated transport, it all gets to infiltrate.

 

4. Page 38 also says the unit may Outflank if kept in Reserves.

 

But if you are saying that on a roll of a 1 the Sorc is left out? yes that is true but you learn to play around it.

[Ravenfeld]

Can't you roll that trait on the Chaos list as well? Thanks for the insight Prot.

 

So the Mark of Tzeentch makes you ALMOST as resilient as a TH TDA while allowing you to keep a ranged weapons, while MoS makes you hit first with your melee weapons and lets you take FnP through the Icon. But precision shots can remove Icons rather handily... Which of the two would you suggest? I am leaning towards MoT personally...

 

The Sorc would be best served Markless? Even if I could give him a 3++ with the Sigil + MoT? I am definitely leaning towards both a Sorc and a Lord (Maybe Claw / Pfist?) but that is a large footprint for deep striking, and easy to avoid with footslogging. Hrmm.. dilemmas.

[nurglez]

There is a bit of contention about which order things happen, regarding IC's with infiltrate passing it on to the squad.

 

Some people say as infiltrators are placed last, you cannot join the squad, as they are placed at different times, yet when it comes to reserves (and working out the 50% that can be reserved) IC's count, even if they have joined a squad in reserve, which is done when you deploy.

 

Similar to how technically shrike couldn't pass infiltrate on to his squad back in 5th, even though he had a special rule that granted his squad infiltrate.

 

Moving on, If you want to avoid special chars, you can always just go for a chaos lord to lead them and hope you roll master of deception on your warlord trait :D

[Deus de Mortalis]

 

The problem with Huron is that if you roll a 1 for the inflitrating squads, the special character can't accompany the infiltrating terminators. So although infiltrating terminators might be pretty strong by themselves, they lose the buff and/or challenging capability from the independent character, and you are stuck with a sorceror or lord in terminator armor that you don't know what to do with.

 

 

Here we go, I was waiting for this.

 

It does work... I'll just dig up one of the old threads for you:

> 

1. Huron gets Infiltrate.

 

2. Page 38 says the unit only needs 1 model for them all to infiltrate, so he joins terminators, who now infiltrate.

 

3. Page 38 also says if the unit deploys in a dedicated transport, it all gets to infiltrate.

 

4. Page 38 also says the unit may Outflank if kept in Reserves.

 

But if you are saying that on a roll of a 1 the Sorc is left out? yes that is true but you learn to play around it.

 

 

But if huron joins the terminators during deployment, they both need infiltrate to be placed together, as the placement during deployment is what dictates if he has joined the squad, not just that you say so. This is at least according to the rules as they are written. If you are holding them all in reserve, there is nothing stopping huron from joining them and having them outflank together.

 

Can't you roll that trait on the Chaos list as well? Thanks for the insight Prot.

 

So

the Mark of Tzeentch makes you ALMOST as resilient as a TH TDA while

allowing you to keep a ranged weapons, while MoS makes you hit first

with your melee weapons and lets you take FnP through the Icon. But

precision shots can remove Icons rather handily... Which of the two

would you suggest? I am leaning towards MoT personally...

 

The

Sorc would be best served Markless? Even if I could give him a 3++ with

the Sigil + MoT? I am definitely leaning towards both a Sorc and a Lord

(Maybe Claw / Pfist?) but that is a large footprint for deep striking,

and easy to avoid with footslogging. Hrmm.. dilemmas.

 

The problem with the sorcerer taking the mark of tzeentch is that at least one of his powers has to be from the tzeentch lore.

Once you give him the 3++ and upgrade his mastery level to get better

powers, he starts to cost a lot. Idk, I like to keep things cheap.

[Prot]

There is a bit of contention about which order things happen, regarding IC's with infiltrate passing it on to the squad.

Some people say as infiltrators are placed last, you cannot join the squad, as they are placed at different times, yet when it comes to reserves (and working out the 50% that can be reserved) IC's count, even if they have joined a squad in reserve, which is done when you deploy.

Similar to how technically shrike couldn't pass infiltrate on to his squad back in 5th, even though he had a special rule that granted his squad infiltrate.

Moving on, If you want to avoid special chars, you can always just go for a chaos lord to lead them and hope you roll master of deception on your warlord trait

Yea, it's obvious what they meant when making that sort of rule. It's something that in my area everyone plays it that way. Basically Huron takes the trait and extends it to the Terminators. We have no issue in my city of anyone playing it that way. I guess that's all that matters. I really don't see it functioning any other way.

|oining and Leaving a Unit

An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit,

either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in

reserve) by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

[Brother Aiwass]

Barring the use of Special characters what would you do? Two characters in the unit, one CC Lord / One Sorc? Alot of eggs to be wandering up field or deep striking no?

 

Yes it's risky. I wouldn't do it. But if I had to do...

 

#1 MoN termies & TDA sorc (lvl 3, sigil, brand, biomancy)

#2 MoK termies & TDA lord (MoK, AoBF, sigil, VoTLW) maybe swap the MoK in the terminators for VoTLW

#3 MoT termies & TDA sorc ((lvl 3, sigil, brand, telepathy)

-> Termie wargear : 2 RAC, 1 CF, 1 PF, 8 combi-plasma, mixed PW

 

I wouldn't take MoS for termies for footslogging I think. Other options include the biomancy sorc in the MoK terminators, just for fun. The option I like more is #3 for the 4++ save, they're our cheap TH/SSnators.

 

2 HQ in a big-scary unit who's getting to eat all heavy weapons fire every turn until is no more? Nope, imho.

[Ravenfeld]

Alright, so I am leaning towards the unit of TDA w/ MoT & a Sorc, but why the hate for the Lore of Tzeentch? I remember reading something... I know in fantasy it has a chance of granting Regen to a unit, is it that it grants FnP in 40k? Its only a chance though right? Please do explain.

 

So I imagine RAC's for foot slogging and Heavy Flamers for deep striking ideally?

 

Also, would I be completely insane if I ran two units of TDA? One MoT & one MoS? One deep strikes, one walks up the field? How would you build an army around this... probably lots of cultist troops, haha!

[Brother Aiwass]

Actually I don't hate the Lore of Tzeentch, is not that bad imho, but I like Telepathy the most :lol:

 

The FnP thing is the Icon of Excess for the MoS units (which is pretty good and useful to keep the lord/sorc alive as well as the other terminators) but I've not included it before because is expensive (but if you go Deathstar, take it by all means: 2+, 5++ and 5++ FnP. The sorc still unmarked for me).

 

Heavy flamers are nice for DS but if you go out of range you can be kitted easily, and overall RAC is better (again, imho).

 

Cheers.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Alright, so I am leaning towards the unit of TDA w/ MoT & a Sorc, but why the hate for the Lore of Tzeentch? I remember reading something... I know in fantasy it has a chance of granting Regen to a unit, is it that it grants FnP in 40k? Its only a chance though right? Please do explain.

 

So I imagine RAC's for foot slogging and Heavy Flamers for deep striking ideally?

 

Also, would I be completely insane if I ran two units of TDA? One MoT & one MoS? One deep strikes, one walks up the field? How would you build an army around this... probably lots of cultist troops, haha!

 

The tzeentch lore is kind of lame, at least compared to others. 2/4 powers are almost the same as just giving the sorcerer a combi-melta or the burning brand.

[Ravenfeld]

But you could use the powers on top of the melta/brand no? So wouldn't that make it doubly effective?

 

I really love the idea of a Telepathy Sorc in TDA, it is my primary HQ concept at the moment.. but I have this really cool modelling idea for a lord with dual Lightning Claws and I was thinking I would do a MoT Sorc w/ foot slogging MoT TDA w/ Reapers and a MoS Dual Lightning Claw Lord in TDA w/ Deepstriking MoS TDA w/ Icon of Excess! I could make the DS'ing squad 5 man instead of 10 for a more manageable footprint.

[Prot]

My base setup is very vanilla, but if I had the points for a mark, the Nurgle mark is what I use. The MoK is actually quite good, but actually becomes effective less often unless you take a landraider. Base character is always a Termie Sorc for me in deep strike scenarios.

[Ravenfeld]

Well I actually have three (Yes, THREE) different Chaos armies in mind, all of them working together as an "allied warband" with these fellows at the head of the totem pole. My Raptor based Nurgle army - based on beetles, my khornate nightlords warband, my schism based Word Bearers (these guys), and I might even fit a daemon engine / beast themed force in there too.. perhaps Iron Warriors.. perhaps something completely different. Essentially each force focuses on a specific "slot" and together they will make a full army.

 

Nurgle Force = Fast Attack (Some Elite - Chosen)

Word Bearers = Elite (Some Heavy - Havocs)

Khornate Night Lords = Troops (Some Fast - Bikers)

Iron Warriors = Heavy  (Some Elite - Hellbrutes)

 

They will each have their own HQ selections individually so I "can" opt to run each as its own force in lower point games.. but in higher points i'll mix and match as I want. This way I can have a diverse pallet and great conversion opportunities without having to own 4 different 3k armies. I think it'll work nicely, i'll even do up some fluff for it once it gets rolling!