Phoebus Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I downloaded this, in part because I'm interested in the new fluff that GW is adding to certain characters (for instance, we get a more in depth look at Azrael's career in an earlier entry), and in part because I'm all for them going to a digital format. I have to say, though, the last three digital products I'd gotten were disappointing. Codex Astartes, Chaplains, and Dreadnoughts ended up being re-prints of the old White Dwarf articles. There wasn't even so much as a touch-up of the background text, to take into consideration the updates from the Black Library novels and Forgeworld's Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy entries. But lest you think a division between those three arms is likely (even though I can't fathom why this should still be going on by now...), it also ignores updates from one of the latest Codices (Grey Knights) - in terms of Second Founding information (400 Chapters vs. just a few dozen, for instance). I don't know who wrote the Asmodai article for "Warlords of the Dark Millennium". I'm not trying to denigrate them as a person. Would it be so hard, though, for someone writing a background piece to check the (actually really limited amounts of) *background* associated with their topic? Two things that jumped at me, just during a casual scan: 1. Asmodai was apparently a member of a Tactical Squad... of the Eighth Company. Even though, you know, the Eighth Company is the Assault Company. Sloppy, but minor I suppose. 2. Asmodai's dedication brought him to the ranks of the Interrogator-Chaplains, and helped him “capture his first Fallen Dark Angel in 411.M41. His name was Cephesus, and though Asmodai turned his considerable skills of excruciation and coercion upon him, he died without repenting his treachery.” But Cephesus is the Fallen from 'Unforgiven'... who was actually killed by Brother-Sergeant Kaelen, following the death of Interrogator-Chaplain Bareus. Asmodai isn't even mentioned in that story. It's bad enough when so much of the background information on the Dark Angels has to be recycled from edition to edition (as opposed to covering different heroes from older eras, or expanding on the other chapters of the Unforgiven). This sort of thing is just unprofessional, though. Between some of the background from the new Codex and this article, Asmodai is becoming less a sinister figure and more like a caricature from the 1d4chan archives. For instance, the episode in the Codex, wherein Asmodai demands that every Scout drawn from the world of Narcium be executed, is expanded on in the 'Warlords' article. It turns out, the reason he was there to begin with was due to the fact that he talked back to Azrael after being called to account for a move that was bound to get the Dark Angels in trouble. So the only reason he was working with Scouts to begin with was because Azrael had stripped him of his rank and sent him to serve as Chaplain for the Tenth Company for three years, to learn humility. He was sent packing after just six months, because of that incident with the Narcium recruits (meaning even the Company Master disagreed with him), but nothing came of it. Making matters worse, the other big signature event in the 'Warlords' article makes Asmodai look like an even bigger idiot. When, during a campaign against Orks, he hears of a 'remarkable warrior' leading the defense against the xenos, Asmodai decides this fellow must be a Fallen. When the Master of the company he was assigned to disagreed with him, Asmodai usurped his command and threatened him with censure. Upon arriving at the defenses led by the 'remarkable warrior', Asmodai had all of the human defenders killed. The warrior in question wasn't a Fallen at all (go figure), but an inquisitor. Oops. Making matters worse, Asmodai's attack had left several companies of Space Marines from another chapter outflanked, and they suffered horrible losses. To say nothing of further weakening the effort against xenos by slaughtering their allies in the process of doing so. Azrael had to travel to the other chapter's homeworld to formally apologize. And this was after the inquisitor had petitioned the other chapter to make war on the Dark Angels. When Azrael finally confronted Asmodai, he stated he only regretted not killing the inquisitor. Not that he made a bone-headed decision that even another member of the Inner Circle clearly thought was idiotic. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1d4chan stuff for humor, but that's exactly what GW are achieving here. Instead of the "Oh, Khârn!" bits, it's now "Oh, that Asmodai! His need to kill everything he disagrees with is only matched by his inability to register what an idiot he is!" Seriously, this article starts with the premise that Asmodai started off as an unremarkable warrior who made it through a remarkable fight. It gets the ONE positive story about him completely wrong (Cephesus), and then proceeds to make him look like a borderline incompetent who is more prone to get the chapter in trouble and make Azrael mad than ANYTHING ELSE. If it wasn't for the closing 3-4 paragraphs, during which we read some instances of him doing stuff right (and delivering a ham-fisted compliment to Cassius during the fight against Hive Fleet Leviathan), I'd have been distraught*. Thoughts? Other opinions? * Or, well, as much as I could be about a $5 eBook. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Wow. That all sounds pretty bad. And so I continue to avoid e-books... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well, in my version of the fluff, Asmodai doesn't actually exist. He's just a bedtime story to tell the Scouts to keep them in line...."Recite your Litanies or Asmodai will come and get you!" With regard to Hive Fleet Leviathan, there's an entry in the timeline of the codex which says that the DA helped out! In general, I like the concept of going digital, but just rehashing old WD articles and the like and pushing them out for a few quid is counter-productive. A small number of bespoke publications tying in the newer fluff, with maybe a short story or two written by a BL author, would be a much better way of marketing these sorts of items. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Good to read this review Phoebus. It does sound like a missed opportunity to explore the background of one of the most iconic DAs around. :( Pity... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 sounds like I didn't miss anything and can pretend that this never happened... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Sounds like I'm saving money, regrettably at your expense, Phoebus. I had my sights in that book, but after the last purchase that was too expensive for 3 pages (and I don't even know what I bought anymore) I have been avoiding e-stuff from BL, no matter how tempting they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 But guys... You already know the answer of GW about that :"40k is a universe where informations are hard to check and often 2 informations of opposite nature are gathered in the same time by Terra.As a consequence, it's perfectly normal that such contradictions happen and the truth should lies between the 2 stories."And they'll surely add :"knowing the secretive nature if the DA, you should know more than anyone else, that maintaining such type of arguable information, is natural for DA..."Games workshop : always managing to remain on their feet since 1982... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I think Obi-Wan put it best.... Obi-Wan: "So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view." Luke: "A certain point of view?" Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Thanks for the quick review on this - I was going to buy it too - hmmm but maybe not now . Be interested to get another viewpoint though from someone else. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenshi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I bought the Azrael one and was quite dissapointed. A copy&paste of his rules from the Codex and a little bit of fluff telling us that deep on The Rock there are some records telling us that Azrael came from the Barbarian world of Kimmeria. I don't know if that was known or something new, but I thought the chapters didn't keep records of who they were before becoming SMs as that didn't matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I have to say, though, the last three digital products I'd gotten were disappointing. Codex Astartes, Chaplains, and Dreadnoughts ended up being re-prints of the old White Dwarf articles. The information on the IA e series quite clearly states that these are simply reprints of the old IA articles. These are designed for the generation of gamers who weren't around when the original series published, what, ten years ago? Look at these as supplimental information to what is in the codexes, which is what they alwys were. Also, in a legion of 50,000+ marines, it's likely that more than one were called "Cephesus". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Xenith, the odds are far greater that there were quite a number of *other* names as well. I didn't realize that these were all supposed to be reprints. The mistake is mine, then, for not researching my purchase properly. I stand by the idea that it shouldn't have been that difficult to do a quick update with them. :( Tenshi, I could be wrong, but I thought there was quite a deal newer fluff for Azrael. I didn't feel like that one was a total waste (though $5 for a few pages of background does feel steep). facmanpob, thanks for the Leviathan reminder! I shall amend my post accordingly. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I didn't feel like that one was a total waste (though $5 for a few pages of background does feel steep).This is my issue with the whole thing. I can pay £6.50 for an ebook of a novel from BL, which has taken the author weeks/months of work, and will be extensively proof-read and edited to ensure correct grammar and no spelling mistakes (apart from the odd one here and there). Or I can pay £3.50 for an ebook of Index Astartes: Chaplains, which is 14 pages of out of date material, a significant amount of which is photographs from the website and/or codexes....... Its all about value for money.....and this isn't it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Agreed, facmanpob. Agreed. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The Kimmeria thing has been known about Azrael back to 2nd Edition that I can remember. He's apparently Conan the Barbarian reborn or something. ;) Phoebus, thanks for the review. I had a feeling I would end up a little disappointed in those works, so I'm glad I held off, but sorry you had to spend cash on something disappointing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFromSam Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Thanks for the review. Perhaps they are trying to provide an explanation for Asmodai's points price compared to what he does on the field. Going to follow Brother-Sergeant Bohemond's lead... never happened... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Thanks, Bryan. To his credit, though, Asmodai does come off as a tough bastard in the encounter that led to his ascension. The episode has a silly start in that the Dark Angels *accidentally* run into a Fallen, but from Asmodai's grit gives justice to the "Stubborn" theme. ;) Incidentally, since mention has been made of Azrael... In Azrael's case, he is noted as one of *six* Dark Angels to have received his first laurel of victory as a Scout - thanks to decisive proposals in a battle against Dark Eldar. We also discover that it was thought he would become a Chaplain, as he possessed considered knowledge and aptitude for the chapter's lore. Azrael's first major battle comes before he attains any rank, “following his rise to the battle companies of the Dark Angels.” He manages to fight through a psychic onslaught of demented paranoia that cripples the rest of his company, and defeats a powerful daemonic force through means other than direct combat. On a disappointing note, though (at least where fluff consistency is concerned), when his comrades in the Third Company petition the chapter command to recognize his valor... he is promoted to the “Deathwing Knights of the 1st Company in honour of his mental resolve.” I sincerely hope they just meant "Deathwing", period... but later the article states he becomes Knight Master within a few years. Prior to Azrael, it would appear that large meetings among the Unforgiven were rare. He seems to be reversing that trend. He has also driven the Unforgiven to chase down the Fallen far more than in the past. Moreso in the last sixty years, in fact, than in entire millennia. The interesting side to this is that, unlike previous generations who thought the Hunt was a hopeless task, Azrael is actually convinced that they can end their ancient foe. Making matters more curious is that his driving force isn't the traditional hatred of their enemy: rather, he genuinely believes the Unforgiven can finish this, and that they will become a far more potent weapon once they are rid of their guilt. And he's bringing the rest of the Dark Angels around... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Oh man, as I was reading your review all I could think of was this picture. Asmodai being the dog I'm happy to see that they are bringing it to Android and not just keeping it an iOS thing. But as others have said the price is indeed steep for a few pages of what seem to be out of date content. Now if they were to update it and make it relevant to 6th edition 40k then maybe you'd have my money. Thanks for the review Phoebus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 @ Phoebus - I read earlier that Azzy is bringing the Unforgiven together to help deal with the 13th Black Crusade as there are unprecedented numbers of the Falken turning up, including rumours of Cypher. You can piece it together from different sections of the codex :) Edit - Falken? .... Who the hell are they? Lol! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 facmanpob, I saw that in the new Codex as well. I hope it's implying a different direction than the one from the big campaign they did over the 13th Black Crusade (and the associated Codex). In previous edition/Codex/campaign, Azrael and the Unforgiven are implied to have been spotted around Agripinaa Sector* (where the Voice of the Emperor was spotted), only for them to eventually make a giant detour to Caliban after the Fallen showed their faces there in force (Cypher presumably joined them after he was done starting cult riots). So it's not to say that the last iteration of the background didn't start off on a similar note. The pessimist in me doesn't want to hold his breath, because the new fluff doesn't so much offer new details on how the campaign was fought as it redefines Abaddon's objectives (the Crimson Path). The optimist in me wants to believe that the more dynamic Azrael we're seeing (see the 'Warlords' article) will find a way to take care of the Hunt without also damning the Chapter forever (read: skipping out on the Imperium's biggest battle in ten millennia). * Agripinaa being on the galactic eastern edge of the Eye of Terror, to the galactic northeast of Cadia, and the galactic southwest of Caliban. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Master Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Thanks for the review, saved me some money! Bit disappointed with these releases, was hoping they would have more in. DM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3396629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I actually enjoyed it. Neither the 8th company thing or Cepheus thing popped out at me until you mentioned it. Asmodai is a bad marine whose singleminded pursuit of the fallen sometimes has bad consequences. His dour demeanor is a result of his unfinished business and it causes him to come across as a jackass. He is relentless and his hatred would make Abaddon take notice. I was a bit disappointed with Azrael but really pleased with Asmodai. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3397248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'm your opposite in that regard! I quite enjoyed Azrael's, but felt Asmodai's made him out to be a caricature. Such is life! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3397280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I think I'm more in Phoebus spirit : the fact that this guy made a move without his chief's allowance (though DA being one of the chapters most respectful of hierarchy) for getting an inquisitor and that in repent he was sent to scouts that he killed all sound like Drago's fluff... Too much over the top, just not has the nuance, the compulsory limit that an author needs to oblige himself to have... There's no reflexion, no "what if I need to make him evolve?", just the I need to put the maximum story in the same time... There are clearly a gap between authors... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3397455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoot Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Sorry for the threadromancy, but I couldn't help notice that warlord of the dark millenium: Ezekiel wasn't released on Monday alongside the other ebooks and the link in the asmodai pdf is dead (I was foolish enough to buy it too). I wonder if the series has been canned due to lack of interest/sales and poor reviews? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277008-warlords-of-the-dark-millennium-asmodai/#findComment-3405788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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