Why doesn't Abbadon..

[hummus]

Make all cult units turn into troop choices

It wouldn't be too over powering and would make sense and he does have all the marks too.

[Araziel]

I see you're point, but I'm glad he doesn't. Every single Chaos army would always include him then, you'd have even less diversity in lists than we already have as it is. 

At least as it is, you need a cult leader to field a cult army. 

 

It's been said before, but I think he would have been better, if Chosen and Terminators were the same entry, and then keep him the same. Chosen Terminators as scoring units (not Troops, we're not GK or SW). That's my opinion, anyway...

[Vesper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he has all the marks and is the warlord of the army. So he makes all the cult stuff troop, right ?

[TheDevourer]

Because it is not stated so in the rulebook. See page 92. Whereas it is stated that he may have chosen as troop choices. The other named characters i.e Khârn, ahriman, typhus , Lucius all have special rules allowing them to take cult troops as troop choices. 

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, the whole "he has all the marks" is why he is able to join virtually any squad regardless of the Mark or lack there of.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he has all the marks and is the warlord of the army. So he makes all the cult stuff troop, right ?

 

That's not how things are made Troops though. A Chaos Lord has a special rule that states "If your Primary Detachment has a Chaos Lord with the Mark of X, they can take the Cult Unit as Troops", and the Sorceror has the rule "If your Primary Detachment has a Sorceror with the Mark of Tzeentch, then you can take Thousand Sons as Troops". Abaddon is neither a Chaos Lord (ruleswise, at least), nor a Sorceror. Therefore, he does not meet the requirements to take Cults as Troops.

Being the Warlord, or simply having the Mark, means nothing. Otherwise your Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths could make Cults Troops, or have Noise Marine Troops because you have a Slaaneshi Sorceror.

[Zhorzh]

Every single Chaos army would always include him then, you'd have even less diversity in lists than we already have as it is. 

 

No, Abbadon still wouldn't be an auto-take.

 

-you don't need all Cult units as troops;

-he's expensive;

-he's a slow CC HQ;

-he tailors your army to fight Marines - which could be a good or a bad thing depending on how often do you play against Marines.

[Kol Saresk]

Well actually since the "top lists" are a Noise Marines list and a Plague Marines list(yes I know there's like one or two more) itnwould definitely make him more common as it would allow people to combine both lists. Whether or not that would actually be effective, I can't say.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Terminators as troops or at least scoring would have been a lot better. I mean, his whole thing before the heresy was that he was in charge of the first chapter of the sons of horus, all the terminators.
 

Well actually since the "top lists" are a Noise Marines list and a Plague Marines list(yes I know there's like one or two more) itnwould definitely make him more common as it would allow people to combine both lists. Whether or not that would actually be effective, I can't say.

 

Although both noise marines and plague marines are the good troops choices in the dex, you can still get one as troops and one as elites with a single slaaneshi or nurgle lord. And you can also take a nurgle lord and a slaaneshi lord together in the same list. You could even do it for the same price or less than Abaddon if you really want.

[Araziel]

 

Every single Chaos army would always include him then, you'd have even less diversity in lists than we already have as it is. 

 

No, Abbadon still wouldn't be an auto-take.

 

-you don't need all Cult units as troops;

-he's expensive;

-he's a slow CC HQ;

-he tailors your army to fight Marines - which could be a good or a bad thing depending on how often do you play against Marines.

I realise after re-reading my post that my opinion was probably clouded by  my local players. I can guarantee you that all of them would always field him if this was the case as they all have large Black Legion style armies from the days of 3.5. My mistake for not clarifying, and you do raise some good points. 

 

 

[Chaeron]

It'd be nice to see him get used, more than anything.

[Lord_Caerolion]

You can still get one as troops and one as elites with a single slaaneshi or nurgle lord.

 

How do you manage that, given that both given Cult Units are Elites until you take either a Chaos Lord with the associated Mark, or the requisite Special Character?

[Ammonius]

 

You can still get one as troops and one as elites with a single slaaneshi or nurgle lord.

 

How do you manage that, given that both given Cult Units are Elites until you take either a Chaos Lord with the associated Mark, or the requisite Special Character?

He ... does it by taking a single Slaaneshi or Nurgle Lord.

??

[Warsmith Aznable]

Terminators as troops or at least scoring would have been a lot better. I mean, his whole thing before the heresy was that he was in charge of the first chapter of the sons of horus, all the terminators.

 

Making Terminators scoring would be good. Even some kind of "Terminator assault" rule to at least bring them all down safely if he was with them would be nice. Our loss of icons as teleport homers is a pain in the rear.

[Prot]

Just as an opinion here.... I think considering his background, and the runs at Terra he takes and his ability to bring the Legions together, it would have been cool if he could take one cult squad from each discipline as a troop. But I guess that would have lead to abuse? Or would it? Does it really make a Chaos player all that more powerful by having access to a lot of cult style troops no one uses anyway? I really don't know.

 

I do think the Termie thing would have been super cool and very much in line with his background. I've always loved Chaos termies and the chance to make a squad of them as troops would have made an instant convert of me to Black Legion.

[GenEngineer]

 

 

 

You can still get one as troops and one as elites with a single slaaneshi or nurgle lord.

 

 

How do you manage that, given that both given Cult Units are Elites until you take either a Chaos Lord with the associated Mark, or the requisite Special Character?

He ... does it by taking a single Slaaneshi or Nurgle Lord.

??

I think the issue here is that most people forget that yes, you CAN still use the cults as elites, and yes, they are still as effective at everything they do except holding objectives (amd even then, sometimes).

[Kol Saresk]

Terminators as troops or at least scoring would have been a lot better. I mean, his whole thing before the heresy was that he was in charge of the first chapter of the sons of horus, all the terminators.

I only want to point a few things. Abaddon was Captain of the First Company, not the First Chapter. With the XVI, there were no Chapters although a Company could be anything from a dozen Astartes to over a thousand. Also, he wasn't ctain of all the Terminators, but the Terminator Elite, the Justaerin. As well as the Assault Squad Elite, the Catulan Reavers. Both made up the First Company with Abaddon in over all command asFirst Captain with Ekaddon having secondary command over the Reavers. A small difference I know and its my fault as a "fluff bunny" I think the word used to describe me was, but one I felt important to make.

 

Basically, because Abaddon is the commandeer of the "elite", it would make sense he does what he does with the Chosen as they are the "elite" of any Chaos warband. However, they are not the only elite as Terminator armor is worn not by those awarded it, but by those who claim it in combat. In a traditional warband at least. So Abaddon should have done something for the Terminatirs or Terminators should have been rolled into an upgrade option for the Chosen, to represent the fact that Abaddon only leads the "elite". Either you are the best of the best of the best(Sir! With honors!) or you are one of countless millions of cannon fodder. You just happen to wear power armor. There's a reason BFG has Abaddon firing on his own ships when they fail leadership tests and it is not because he is a moustache villian. No it is either because you succeed or die. There is no alternative.

 

Sorry, a bit of a rant I know so I apologize for that.

 

On the note of taking one cult as elite and the other as troop, would it be better to have the troop assaulting or holding the objective? To me, it would seem the troops should hold the objective while the elites assault it.

[Vaifal]

Personally, If Abaddon was to be used at all, he would need some upgrades, he's simply not worth the points, when you enter a 200 pts + HQ Choice, your HQ's are entering a whole different field.

 

The problem with Abaddon as stated before and by myself, is the cost, He'd be worth taking if Chaos Landraiders had power of the machine spirit, so you can keep him close to some termis with any mark, giving you the benefit of any ability you want really, Abaddon with FNP/ Furious Charge and Re roll charge distance, Awesome, but I personally wouldn't strafe over to nurgle or tzeetzch if I was doing it for the ico, possibly the best marks for the termis as well.

 

Personally, I like sorcerers at the moment so I'd go for Typhus in any Termi sqaud or maybe a level 3 biomancy sorcerer.

[Lord_Caerolion]

You can still get one as troops and one as elites with a single slaaneshi or nurgle lord.

How do you manage that, given that both given Cult Units are Elites until you take either a Chaos Lord with the associated Mark, or the requisite Special Character?

He ... does it by taking a single Slaaneshi or Nurgle Lord.

??

...That'll teach me not to post before properly reading. For whatever reason, I read that as "one as Troops and one as Elites without a single Slaaneshi or Nurgle Lord".

Hooray, I can english!

[zyl-]

I hate to bring up something obvious, but.... "if your primary attatchment contains a chaos lord with the mark of x.." means that you can take 2 cult units as troops already. And since maximizing bikes is the cool trick, and these are both good bike lords, it even seems smart. Or in the event of wanting more drakes, tossing a marked lord in a squad for fearless is even cheaper than actually trying to make him good on a bike.

 

That said, 1k sons and berzerkers are weak by concensus, so 2 would be all you'd want to take in most cases. And that'd be putting a lot of points into troops to take more than 2 types anyhow.. plus redundant use arguments, etc.

 

TLDR: we don't need this rule to run what we want