13th company-related questions from a complete n00b

[wostry]

Hi guys. I just VERY recently decided to take a shot at playing W40k, and so far I'm very much like the whole thing. Never the less, I'm a total beginner (also a beginner at wargaming in general), so forgive me if I ask something very stupid or obvious. :)

 

I decided to start a 13th Company, becuase I absolutely love the fluff. It's basically an army of psychos (warped by 10000 years in the Warp) and werewolves, so these guys are pretty cool.

 

I'm planning to do a squad of Wulfen represented by werewolf space marines, BUT "Mark of the Wulfen" is something different, right? Everybody in 13th company has the mark, which is basically marines turning into werewolves - then how come I shouldn't make everyone in the chapter a werewolf, just the handful of Wulfens?

 

Hopefully my problem is understandable, I wrote it down best as I could :)

 

[Max_Dammit]

Hi and welcome to this fantastic hobby

 

There is just one problem with 13th, they are no longer a usable force, they where a campaign army tied to the 3th ED dex and with the new 5th ED dex that book is no longer usable.

 

You can by tweaking your SW army list (not using tanks) and team up with bloodangles and use there black curse troops as wulfen.

 

But pure SW dex its hard to do

 

Not all troops in the 13th were wulfen,

 

Gray slayers where just gray hunters and storm claws where Bloodclaws only they had 10000 years to get better so they had beter stats.

[Baynachew]

Welcome :D
tbh, 13th company while awesome is kinda redundant at the moment. It would be better if you built your own space wolf company, using something like Ragnar's company as a good example. Blood hunters are kinda pointless at the moment, rather focus on grey hunters and lone wolves. lone wolves allow you to have a number of single operating units like blood claws, but with melta bombs :D
 

[Cate]

Welcome to the Hobby and welcome to Vlka Fenryka. 

 

You have chosen a wonderful hobby which you may have many fun hours with, both by yourself, painting, and in the company of friends and others playing the game.

 

Here are some general tips when it comes to 40k.

The first one is that it is a game, so have fun, the second it isn't fun, take a break from it otherwise it may only become frustrating and give you grief.

The second one is that is an imaginary galaxy you have entered so what ever you want to do is up to you and no one else, if you want to create your own background story and paint your minis as you want to it is up to you and no one else, but beware, the fluff of some chapters are very fleshed out so threading far from the original path may give you some flack from some of the veterans in the hobby. Space wolves is one of those chapters so I would advice you to learn at least the basics behind the Space wolf fluff.  This is one of the best background pages for the Space wolves, http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254833-space-wolves-a-comprehensive-history/ , read through it and you will get lots of inspiration and ideas.

 

When it comes to the 13th company, you might have some problems using our codex and sadly the army list that was in the Eye of terror codex is now considered outdated and most players will not accept it  in games. I don't even think it is possible to win with it anymore, but as  Max_Dammit wrote you can tweak in some Blood angels and you can get a 13th comapnish list.

 

I skimmed through the EoT codex and here is some tips. From the space wolf codex you could use all the unnamed HQs, Wolf guards, grey hunters, long fangs are usable too. No vehicles, as most equipment is now long gone in battles over the millenniums that the 13th has fought against the vile chaos armies in the Eye of terror. You can use Fenresian wolf packs, but that is more or less the only thing from our codex.

To simulate Wulfen, I would advice you to use Blood Angels death company and attach a Blood Angel Reclusiarch Chaplain to them. If you want bikes you should take them from the Blood Angel list, as Space wolf bikes are driven by blood claws and therefore are not that good. That's about everything the 13th company could have in a their list.

Remember this is only advice not a law.

 

To make the 13th company stick out compared to an ordinary Space wolf army you should mix Space wolf minis with chaos minis, but file away stuff like chaos stars and no self respecting Space wolf would ever have horn on their helmets. I would not use terminator (dreadnought) armour, TDA for short, on any models as they are mostly destroyed.

When it comes to the wulfen, mix armour with unarmoured parts, arms from fantasy battle chaos are good, and if/when you fell secure to use green stuff, make them a bit furrier than the normal marines.

 

Hope you will have some use from what i have written.

 

/C

[wostry]

Thanks for the extremely elaborate and interesting advice, gentlemen - many of which made me think and will be implemented.

 

I did not expect such vehement resistance against my idea of doing 13th company tho - so what you guys basically say that even a force such as this (becuase this is what I'd like to do) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267400-space-wolves-13th-company-grand-army-updated-3rd-june/ ha NO chance during a game nowadays? I don't plan to play tournaments, mind you, just friendly games. :)

[hendrik]

key to the 13th company is knowing what the 13th company actually is. when you say they are all psychos and werewolves I'm affraid you've missed the whole point about the 13th company. here is a list of material you should read to gain more insight in the 13th company:

-codex eye of terror

-ragnar novel; wolfs honour (it contains a huge insight on the 13th company, and wulfen in general)

-battle of the fang

If you have trouble finding these send me a pm and i'll help you look for them

here's a quick list of items that you need to know, as they might change your whole perception of what the 13th company is:

-they were send into the warp to chase after magnus and his cowardly 1000th sons. up until now they still remain there although they have fought on cadia as well

-a wulfen isn't what a lot of new players seem to think. it's not something you can change into and change back from (unless you're bran redmaw because he's so awesome ) but rather a permanent state* (which is bad, really bad!). basicly it means you are unable to differ friend from foe, and even your battlebrothers aren't safe anymore (there are plenty of cases in which a wulfen, or even just a wolf bitten battlebrother kills some of his pack mates. it usually requires a wolf priest to control these since somewhere,deep down, they still recognise him as the alpha male.

-most space wolves actually have little understanding of what the curse of the wulfen is (see battle of the fang)

-it is believed by most that turning wulfen is the space wolves ultimate protection against chaos. instead of becoming blessed by tainted whaos powers a space wolf will turn wulfen when exposed to such tainted chaos powers. this is why all of the 13th company are wolf bitten, and a lot of them actual wulfen.

-there are several stadia before you turn wulfen. first the wolf priests will likely spot a warrior prone to fall to the curse long before it actually happens (they might get some more insight on what the curse means by then, so they are warned).

In battle it can happen that the warrior in question loses the fight to the inner wolf and actually feels the wulfen take over. this can lead to a point where he can no longer control himself and anything moving in sight is an enemy. this includes pack brothers who try to restrain you/save you and often leads to the warrior killing his friends. This stadia means you are wolf bitten. the physical changes this causes are small, yet noticable. Eyes turn yellow and teeth remain more profound. Reaching this state also means you are doomed, for once begun the transformation into a real wulfen cannot be stopped. it might take hundreds of years, but one thing is true, the inner wolf will break free...

Then there's the 3rd stage, the scenario that any space wolf dreads, where he actually completly loses his fight to the inner wolf and he becomes an actual wulfen. this state is permanent. as far as physical features go a true wulfen is actually still quite humanoid, although, it certainly has some wolf-like features. here's some reference work with official GW art on how a wulfen actually looks like, and how it doesn't:

this is a werewolf, not a wulfen:

http://cdn.mhpbooks.com/uploads/2013/06/werewolf.jpg

these are actuall fully turned wulfen, you ain't going to become more wolf like then this:

http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/archive/5/5a/20120413083634!Wulfen_Attack.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/space%20wolf%20artwork/tammikwulfenpack.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/space%20wolf%20artwork/leiknirwolfpack.jpg

as you see these resemble a normal human more then they resemble the previously linked werewolf, although you can hardly call them human

*unless sorcery is involved, then it can be temporary

[wostry]

key to the 13th company is knowing what the 13th company actually is. when you say they are all psychos and werewolves I'm affraid you've missed the whole point about the 13th company. here is a list of material you should read to gain more insight in the 13th company:

I'm sure you are 100% right about the fluff, Hendrik, but if I ever do a 13th company, it will be my interpretation, and my interpretation is very much that they will be unhinged. :) It's the very thing that attracted me to build a 13th company. Until I have read somewhere that they are not aware that they are changed by the warp, I wasn't too keen on SPace Wolves - but after reading that on some blog my interest was peeked. According to your facts what that blog wrote was false, but even so, as I said, *it's the very thing* that made me want to do a 13th company :)

[MaveriK]

key to the 13th company is knowing what the 13th company actually is. when you say they are all psychos and werewolves I'm affraid you've missed the whole point about the 13th company. here is a list of material you should read to gain more insight in the 13th company:

I'm sure you are 100% right about the fluff, Hendrik, but if I ever do a 13th company, it will be my interpretation, and my interpretation is very much that they will be unhinged. It's the very thing that attracted me to build a 13th company. Until I have read somewhere that they are not aware that they are changed by the warp, I wasn't too keen on SPace Wolves - but after reading that on some blog my interest was peeked. According to your facts what that blog wrote was false, but even so, as I said, *it's the very thing* that made me want to do a 13th company

The only important thing here is that you now know the actual fluff and background. What you do afterwards is up to your intrepretation. It's better to be educated on a subject, than to go off not knowing what you're talking about. At least now you can say, yeah I know.. but my warband consist more of this than that. Nuff said and welcome to the fang whelp

[wostry]

Thanks :) And thanks to Hendrik as well for his very informative post

[hendrik]

i guess it depens on what you understand on psychos. they are definetly changed by the warp, but i think the best description on how a true 13th company is can be found in wolfs honour. i highly suggest you read it! you might even like it more, after all, there's nothing more badass then being exposed to the wrap for thousands of years and still be sane!! ;)

 

game wise: the army you liked doesn't seem like a real 13th company force with all the bastions and vehicles etc going on.

However, you can work around this, especially now in 6th edition.

-droppods can represent gate, if modelled as some sort of mini warp gate, which was the old 13th company psychic power that allowed a rune priest to teleport units across the board

-grey hunters can easely represent grey slayers

-wolf guard can represent storm claws

-long fangs can be.. long fangs! :p

the only units ican't find an equivalent for are wulfen packs and storm claw bikes (swiftclaws just can't compare). you could do as cate said to represent these units, or, you could get an ally so you don't need those units.you could have an allied imperial guard platoon from during the battle of cadia who your space wolves are helping out, you could even have some eldar fighting in the same area (however, these are still marines from the great crusade, they should just attack those eldar rightaway after they finished up the actuall opponent).

I'm really curious to see what you make of them! ;)

[Valerian]

I can post the "Children of the Night" article, if the mods will allow it.  That might be too much IP in a single post, however.  It would certainly help illuminate the fluff, though.

 

 

 

Valerian

[Valerian]

Okay, so I won't post the Children of the Night article until released to do so, but these snippets should suffice for now and whet your appetite for more:

 

 

 

PART I:

 

These fragmented pieces of text have been excerpted from Dionerius' Rise of Man, M31


...Among them were companies of savage creatures, their bestiality far outstripping even the barbaric Children of Russ. By the Space Wolves these were called the Wulfen, at times spoken of as the thirteenth company. They were feral of eye and febrile in nature, strong of limb and blanched by savage tattoos, able to tear a man asunder with their clawed hands and fangs. Eschewing weapons of distance they would stalk their foes as wild beasts, slinking in the shadows and hunting by night 'neath the light of the full moon. Variously, captains say the Wulfen were led by Hirkon Grail or Jorin Bloodfang, maybe when one was slain another took his place.

Fragment II


Now in the aftermath of the Siege of Terra there was a great confusion among the loyal followers of the Emperor, for they had lost their liege lord and were as knights without their king. [[Text lost]] Many voiced loud the thought in the hearts of all - give chase to the traitors and destroy them utterly for the woe they had wrought. The voice of Russ was raised loudest of all, [[Text lost]] but Guilliman and Dorn gainsaid his counsel. To enter the Occularis Terriblis would bring disorder on the surviving Legions, they said, leaving Man vulnerable to both the xenite and the apostate. It is said that Russ, as was so often the way, took his own counsel and sent forth the Wulfen to hunt down Abaddon and his followers. Others say that the thirteenth company pursued the heretics of their own accord, as hounds at the chase who heed not the calls of their huntsman. Others still maintain that the Wulfen had been tainted by the Dark Gods and were summoned by their call to join the traitor legions in the netherworld.

Fragment III


The Wulfen were never seen nor heard of again, passing into the void and becoming lost to the eye and ear of Man. It is said that upon the Space Wolves homeworld of Fenris the loss of the Wulfen was known by the wolves of Asaheim. The great packs gathered before the gates of the Space Wolves monastery in their thousands until every wolf in the world was there. That grey host howled of their loss for a hundred nights before returning to the hinterlands.
 

PART II:

 

From the Saga of Jorin Bloodfang


In time, the ranks of the 6th Legion
swelled to a great host.

And many bore the Mark
[FRAGMENT MISSING]

And so Russ banded them all into
one Great Company.

And to Bloodfang fell the honor
Of leading them to laurels and glory
In the name of Russ and the
All Father.

Bloodfang named [FRAGMENT MISSING]
Grail, Orkbane, Sigurd, Thorbrand,
and Grafield.

To each a retinue was granted.

And as a band of brothers the
13th Great Company
Reaved across the stars.

Neither xenite, or Apostate,
nor Fiend
Could stand before [FRAGMENT MISSING]
the Were was upon them.

But at the Gates of [FRAGMENT MISSING]
did Bloodfang rage
And plunge headlong into
[FRAGMENT MISSING]
Neither kin nor Master could
restrain him.

And beyond the Gates did the
Wulfen-kind pass.

At Asaheim, the Wolves did cry for
one hundred nights
To mourn the passage of their kin.

 

 

PART III:

 

The saga known as "The War of the Giants" purports to be a record of the fall of Prospero, one of the opening conflicts of the Horus Heresy. The Space Wolves were ordered to asault their brother Legion, the Thousand Sons, and to call them to account for the sorcerous actions of their Primarch, Magnus the Red. The saga states that the 13th Company was at the head of the assault on the Thousand Sons' home world and that the sheer ferocity of their attack smashed a hole in the traitor lines through which the remainder of the Space Wolves could penetrate. At the height of the battle, it is told that Magnus opened a portal, a means of escaping the destruction wrought by the Space Wolves, Magnus and the remnants of his Legion fled, but it is said that Russ ordered the 13th Company to give chase. In so doing, the left the realm of Man, never to return.

Fragments of other records suggest that the disappearance of the 13th Company did not occur until after the Siege of the Emperor's Palace, which saw the rebel Warmaster Horus finally defeated and the Traitor Legions routed back to the Eye of Terror. It is stated that in the wake of the galaxy-spanning civil war, which saw the Imperium brought to its knees by Horus's treachery, the Ultramarines' Primarch Roboute Guilliman sought to consolidate the forces of Mankind. But Leman Russ, headstrong and proud as he was, demanded that the Traitors not be allowed to establish a foothold within the Eye of Terror and that the Imperium should strike immediately. Though Guilliman and Dorn overrode him, it has been suggested that Russ may have dispatched the 13th Company with orders to hunt down Abaddon, the Warmaster's Lieutenant, and bring his head as a trophy to set before the Emperor. Other, less charitable theories suggest the Wulfen gave chase on their own accord, and some even whisper that the 13th Company had been tainted by Chaos all along and were seeking to join the ranks of the Traitors.

This legend bears up well to the little evidence that exists to support it, and the timing of their emergence from the Eye indicates that the Wulfen may be pursuing Abaddon. 

 

 

PART IV:

 

The Wolf Brothers
(excerpted from the calleria M37)



...And ranging 'cross Yahals plain
The Eldar turned at bay.
They stood and fought, shed blood
And burned
A thousand men that day.

Then Wolf Brothers came
To slay them all,
Bloody swords raised, howling,
fangs gleaming
Answering the warriors' call.

No alien could stand against
So fierce a foe,
No trick would turn them aside.
On they came, unstoppable
To strike a deadly blow.

Turning, fleeing the Eldar ran
Through their portal
Beyond the reach of man.
Undaunted Wolf Brothers
Pursued them unto realms immortal

Though aliens were defeated,
Their fury tamed,
The ill-fated Wolf Brothers
Were lost, mourned
Never seen again... 

 

PART V:

 

Tales are told of a thirteenth Great Company whose Wolf Lord took as his sign the pelt of the Wulfen, the legendary spirit of evil whose curse can still turn Space Wolves into monsters of that name. This Wolf Lord, his name has been lost to the ages, said that he could overcome anything, even the curse of the Wulfen, and that was why he took it as his totem. His hubris cost him dear; the Great Company vanished into the Eye of Terror during the Horus Heresy, and none know of its fate. Since then the Space Wolves have traditionally considered the number thirteen unlucky and a portent of bad omen. 

 

 

PART VI:

 

The Space Wolves remained loyal to the Emperor throughout the Heresy and took part in some of its most renowned actions. From those times, ten thousand years ago, come few details of any certainty. It was a time of legends. It was an age of war. Such records as made have not survived, and only later did chroniclers of the Administratum describe the bloody events of those days. According to their own tradition, the Space Wolves were pivotal in one of the early campaigns of the war, when the entire Legion attacked and devastated the Thousand Sons Space Marines on their home world of Prospero. The Primarch of the Thousand Sons, the cyclopean giant Magnus the Red, is said to have fought Leman Russ whilst all around the rival Space Marines battled for supremacy. Eventually the Thousand Sons gave way and Magnus the Red fled with what remained of his forces. It was while pursuing the Thousand Sons that the Space Wolves lost the Thirteenth Company, the Wulfen. Since then the Space Wolves have never had a thirteenth Company nor has any Wolf Lord born the badge of the Wulfen.

The Space Wolves were not present during the final battle for Earth which ended the Heresy and doomed the Emperor to a living death in the stasis field of his Golden Throne. Afterwards, Leman Russ was to rage against events that kept him from his beloved Emperor. He led the Space Wolves deep into the Eye of Terror in pursuit of the renegade Space Marine Legions of Chaos.

With the enthronement of the Emperor came a different age, and they rule of the Imperium passed into the hands of the High Lords of Terra. Both the High Lords and the Primarchs feared the resurgence of Chaos. Many worlds were purged. On many planets the tainted were sought out and destroyed. Everywhere the rapidly expanding ranks of the Inquisition prospered.

Never again would the Imperium tolerate the possibility of Space Marine armies falling under the influence of the great enemy. The original Space Marine Legions were broken up into smaller Chapters and a code was drawn up to redefine their role and jurisdiction within the Imperium. The new Chapters that were created became known as the Second Founding. The Space Wolves were never a very large Legion and so were divided only once, creating the ill-fated Wolfbrothers Chapter. 

 

 

ADDENDUM:

 

The novels, published by the Black Library subdivision of the the company (Games Workshop, LLC), have established Bulveye as the original (and apparently still) Wolf Lord for the 13th Company. I do not know how many separate novels have been written that have used this character, but I'm sure someone else who is more familiar with the novels will come along and inform us.

The design studio, which are the folks that write the rules, write the codices, and write the articles for White Dwarf magazine, have always written it as Jorin Bloodfang*. Jorin has been written as the original Wolf Lord of the 13th in the following sources: Space Wolves 2nd Edition Codex, Space Wolves 3rd Edition Codex, Lone Wolves article (White Dwarf 244), the 13th Company Index Astartes Article (White Dwarf 283), and the Space Wolves 5th Edition Codex* (Actually the 5th Edition version calls him Jorin Bloodhowl, rather than Bloodfang, but this is clearly an editing cock-up, as he has always been Bloodfang, and Sven Bloodhowl is another Wolf Lord). A character named Bulveye has never, every, been mentioned by the design studio folks.

What one really has to do before going into these discussions is to declare which set of fluff they are going to be including into the discussion. If you go only with design studio fluff, you get much less conflict, and it stays fairly consistent. If you include the novels, then you introduce tons of new authors, and with them tons of contradictory information. his is just my opinion, but the way I look at it is that the designers establish the fluff or background material; they don't always make everything clear, but they've tried to build a somewhat coherent universe to play in. Meanwhile, the novels are set in the same universe, and are 'inspired by' the background established by the designers. For example, I consider the protagonist Ragnar of the early series to be simply 'based on' the Wolf Lord Ragnar Blackmane of the M41 fluff, and not necessarily an 'actual' account of Blackmane's exploits.

This is why I chose to distinguish between the two, rather than try to jumble them together. There are too many inconsistencies when you treat them all the same.

 

 

V