lorenzo_ishivar_kain Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 ok, I just have read the book...thrilling, but I don't understand anything Can someone of you explain me what happened inside the temple of woe? Did Kai killed himself looking into Roxanne Eye? What exactly did Kai see aboard the Argo? What was the Vacant Angel? and...... how long Atharva and the others have been jailed? thanks to all.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 havent read it in a while but as far as i remember we dont actually know what happened to kai and roxanne. It's implied everyone's butchered by the imperium's clean up crew. This is further aluded to in the audiobook wolf hunt kai was mentally ruined from thousands of souls dying in the warp. he didnt 'see' physically anything, he felt everyones memories and death screams through his other abilities. Vacant angel was some kind of daemon. the amount of death in that particular place had basically allowed an entity of the warp through a hole in reality (due to all the said death, suffering etc) we dont know how long exactly that they had been jailed for before escaping. I cant remember any reference to time in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3396888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Carach pretty much covered everything, although at the end of the book, Kai was dead from looking into Roxanne's third eye and Roxanne was taken away. Anything that happened after that, I cannot say since I do not have the audiobook but Carach could be right about them having been finished off afterwards. IIRC, they were effectively put in prison after the Eisenstein arrived at Terra and warned the Imperium of the events at Istvaan III. They were mostly imprisoned due to association rather than actual involvement. Tis a bit peculiar as Atharva was a Thousand Son and the Razing of Prospero had already occured, then again Atharva seemed to have no knowledge of this event. And as far as I know, there are still a few numbers of the Crusader Host imprisoned there although the numbers probably changed after Istvaan V as there was supposed to be a sizeable Word Bears force assigned there according to Scions of the Storm I believed the Story was called. I want to say that it is in the Age of Darkness anthology. But yeah, I'd say Dorn has his hands full either way it goes, especially since I hadn't heard about those fellows since then and I'd imagine that they'd be causing a ruckus since Istvaan V blew their cover as Loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3396912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 i had also wondered what could happen to that word bearers force. i predicted that they would be loyalist due to the character in the story still worshiping the emperor. but as we havent heard anything of them since who knows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3397781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Heremes Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 IIRC in scion of the storm at the end the main character get introduced to the book of Lorgar by Lorgar himself right after the nobility of the world gets massacred Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3398256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Lothario? I'm guessing Lorgar in another language? Like how Joshua in Konei Greek becomes Jesus? Anyway, side track coming coming back on to the main road, IIRC, the main character saw that the divergent human society had a copy of the Lectitio Divinatus and he questioned Lorgar and it ended with Lorgar starting to tell him about the new beginning for the Word Bearers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3398292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Heremes Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Nah sorry typing stuff out on a phone lead to lots of auto-corrects when using 40k terms Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3398305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Honest mistake. Auto-correct is one of the greatest boons and banes of the modern age. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3398323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Carach pretty much covered everything, although at the end of the book, Kai was dead from looking into Roxanne's third eye and Roxanne was taken away. Anything that happened after that, I cannot say since I do not have the audiobook but Carach could be right about them having been finished off afterwards. IIRC, they were effectively put in prison after the Eisenstein arrived at Terra and warned the Imperium of the events at Istvaan III. They were mostly imprisoned due to association rather than actual involvement. Tis a bit peculiar as Atharva was a Thousand Son and the Razing of Prospero had already occured, then again Atharva seemed to have no knowledge of this event. And as far as I know, there are still a few numbers of the Crusader Host imprisoned there although the numbers probably changed after Istvaan V as there was supposed to be a sizeable Word Bears force assigned there according to Scions of the Storm I believed the Story was called. I want to say that it is in the Age of Darkness anthology. But yeah, I'd say Dorn has his hands full either way it goes, especially since I hadn't heard about those fellows since then and I'd imagine that they'd be causing a ruckus since Istvaan V blew their cover as Loyalists. The Outcast Dead has serious issues with the timeline that was established in the various events in A Thousand Sons, False Gods, and Galaxy in Flames. You either have to bust out serious amounts of time travel or you're faced with behavior on the part of the Imperium that only makes sense if everyone has room temperature IQs. As measured in celsius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3401487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Carach pretty much covered everything, although at the end of the book, Kai was dead from looking into Roxanne's third eye and Roxanne was taken away. Anything that happened after that, I cannot say since I do not have the audiobook but Carach could be right about them having been finished off afterwards. IIRC, they were effectively put in prison after the Eisenstein arrived at Terra and warned the Imperium of the events at Istvaan III. They were mostly imprisoned due to association rather than actual involvement. Tis a bit peculiar as Atharva was a Thousand Son and the Razing of Prospero had already occured, then again Atharva seemed to have no knowledge of this event. And as far as I know, there are still a few numbers of the Crusader Host imprisoned there although the numbers probably changed after Istvaan V as there was supposed to be a sizeable Word Bears force assigned there according to Scions of the Storm I believed the Story was called. I want to say that it is in the Age of Darkness anthology. But yeah, I'd say Dorn has his hands full either way it goes, especially since I hadn't heard about those fellows since then and I'd imagine that they'd be causing a ruckus since Istvaan V blew their cover as Loyalists. The Outcast Dead has serious issues with the timeline that was established in the various events in A Thousand Sons, False Gods, and Galaxy in Flames. You either have to bust out serious amounts of time travel or you're faced with behavior on the part of the Imperium that only makes sense if everyone has room temperature IQs. As measured in celsius. Or listen to Wolf Hunt (I think thats what its called) where it explains the time discrepancies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3401544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 wolf hunt does indeed go some way to fill the plot holes in outcast dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Guh, an audiobook sequel to a book I didn't think was that great to begin with. They've made a habit of compiling some of the audiobooks into short story collections, so hopefully that is what they'll do here. I'll admit to being nervous about how the plot holes are filled in though. A Thousand Sons (and tidbits in False Gods and Prospero Burns) implied that the specific orders and motivations that led to the razing of Prospero were... dubious, at best. My current interpretation being that Magnus' message to Terra caused the Emperor to send Russ to recall Magnus to Terra. Russ contacted Horus while in transit for any number of reasons, at which point the corrupted Warmaster was able to convince Russ (easily, and with some assistance from Valdorin) that Magnus was a lost cause and that nuking from orbit was a better plan. Since Outcast Dead, on its own, is such a mess, I'm totally ignoring it. Which means that the whole timing issue of Magnus' message vs. Terra realizing Horus had turned isn't all kerfuffled. It allows Magnus' message be a valid warning that was tragically ignored, and turns Russ' attack on Prospero into a tragic mistake that critically weakens two loyal legions, causing one of them to turn to Horus to survive. Added bonus that it sets up some quality emo drama action for Russ once he realizes that Horus used him. My worry is that any clarification that tries to incorporate The Outcast Dead into the existing timeline will change this. And given the way things seem to roll with the BL authors, will end up setting the Sons up as total derp heads, and whitewash the Wolves are totally fine and perfect with no questions about what they did on Prospero or why they did it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Wolf Hunt was a surprisingly good story IMO. But then again I also never saw the problems with The Outcast Dead, so... I never understood why everyone thought that McNeill, not to mention the editors at the BL, would let such a huge error go by unnoticed. The timeline jumble was obviously there for a reason, it was never just a mistake. Now whether it was necessary or not is another story... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 That was the one major problem I had with it was the timeline bit. But since I had also read Phalanx which had things like Lysander turning on the Soulspear which was gene-locked to Soul Drinkers' gene-seed which was later said to definitely not be Imperial Fist gene-seed as well as a Crimson Fists Captain arriving in one chapter and then the next chapter he is a Howling Griffons' Captain and a few other things, yeah I admit that my faith in the BL's editors is severely shaken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Wow. I got really turned off by the Soul Drinkers' books after maybe the second or third one but now I have just got to read Phalanx. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Don't. Personally, I liked the series so I kept up with it, but I rather it had just ended with Hellforged. I hate cliffhangers, but I'd rather tolerate not knowing than the ending just be a total disaster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I didn't say I wanted to read it because it sounded good. More like one of those "so bad it is downright hilarious." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277038-about-the-outcast-dead/#findComment-3402573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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