Starting Chaos, plague champion wargear.

[Anabis_Xero]

Hey all, I'm currently assembleing my first box of plague marines, eventually I plan I using 3 7 man units 2 with meltaguns and 1 with plasmas. My question is how should I outfit the champions? I was thinking power swords but is it better to go with an axe or fist because of the initiative of plague marines? Also I was considering giving the champions combi-flamers to help with receiving or launching an assault. Also are gifts of mutation worth their points on the plague champions? Any help or advice is much appreciated.

[Ammonius]

In my current 1500 point list I have one unit of Plague Marines. I run them with my Nurgle-marked Lord (Terminator armor, LClaw, PFist). In this configuration, the PM aspiring champion is pretty much there to provide an option for soaking up challenges.

 

Now, all Plague Marines get poisoned weapons, and that's usually special enough for an Aspiring champion whose most important features are the T5 and FNP. Therfore, I only give him Meltabombs, in case the unit gets hold of a vehicle. I justify this to myself by looking at the points that a unit of Plague Marines cost and the relative ease with which Plague Marines die to shooting in my local meta (IG, Tau, DE). Depending on what you see across the table, you may be able to outfit your Aspiring Champions difefrently.

[Chaeron]

If you're looking to equip them, the most sensible choice is a Lightning Claw.

[nurglez]

I use 2 squads at 1500 points. One with dual melta and the second with dual plasma. Both champions have a combi weapon matching the other special weapons, and that is all. I did try out a power axe, but normally he died before he got to swing anyway. I end up using one of the champions to take the challenge while my lord works the unit, and that goes fine.

[Deus de Mortalis]

If you're looking to equip them, the most sensible choice is a Lightning Claw.

I disagree. VS MEQ, a single lightning claw is only slightly better than a power sword because of the sword's extra attack. 3 power axe attacks are more killy vs everything than 2 lightning claw attacks though. Of course that reduces him to I1, but he was only at I3 to begin with, so it isn't going to matter much.

[minigun762]

 

If you're looking to equip them, the most sensible choice is a Lightning Claw.

I disagree. VS MEQ, a single lightning claw is only slightly better than a power sword because of the sword's extra attack. 3 power axe attacks are more killy vs everything than 2 lightning claw attacks though. Of course that reduces him to I1, but he was only at I3 to begin with, so it isn't going to matter much.

Agreed.

Single claw is awesome for Noise Marines, or even standard Marines but since PM's are already slow, packing the power axe is probably the best bang for the buck. S5 is still useful if you have to fight an MC which is a nice bonus.

[nurglez]

I'm quite happy to keep the plague knife to be honest. 3 attacks with str 4 poisoned aren't too bad, and against most MC's they are going to smash you in a challenge, so you'll only get a few hits in if at all.

 

Of course, some games a fist or axe would have come in very useful, but I need those points for other things (and am still shy about 10 points in my list at least).

[Chaeron]

 

 

If you're looking to equip them, the most sensible choice is a Lightning Claw.

I disagree. VS MEQ, a single lightning claw is only slightly better than a power sword because of the sword's extra attack. 3 power axe attacks are more killy vs everything than 2 lightning claw attacks though. Of course that reduces him to I1, but he was only at I3 to begin with, so it isn't going to matter much.

Agreed.

Single claw is awesome for Noise Marines, or even standard Marines but since PM's are already slow, packing the power axe is probably the best bang for the buck. S5 is still useful if you have to fight an MC which is a nice bonus.

 

I'll cite a friend, Lord Pthisis, on this issue, as we've been going back and forth about this:

 

"Let's set up the following scenario. A squad of PMs is in assault with a squad of loyalist marines. Lets assume that the loyalists have charged and the SM Sergeant, armed with a Powerfist, has issued a challenge. 

If our Plague Champion is armed with a Powerfist, he will have a 66% chance of killing the loyalist sergeant. The loyalist will have a 62% of killing our Plague Champ. They both attack simultaneously so both can die. Dead champ's don't get to roll on the Chaos Boon table and the odds are better than half that he will die.

Let's see what the odds are when the Plague champ has a Lightning Claw. The Lightning Claw will attack first and has a 61% chance of killing the loyalist. But if the loyalist dies, he doesn't get to attack back. He has a 39% chance of survival, and if he does, he has a 62% chance of killing the Plague champ. Overall, that's a 24% chance the Plague champ will die. Taking the lightning claw is a very inconsequential reduction in killing power, but allows you to do it before a powerfist has the chance to kill you, increasing the Plague champ's survivability by 2.6 times. A surviving champ lives to get his reward from Papa Nurgle and slaughter the rest of the enemy squad."

 

And the following summary:

 

"Back to the champ weapon selection, Power Axes are pretty good at killing enemies. You'll kill the enemy sergeant 70% of the time, but as they strike simultaneously you will still die about 66% of the time. Lightning claws will kill 60% of the time before they can strike back. Is the additional 10% increase in lethality worth a 55% decrease in survivability?"

 

I mean, horses for courses- I can appreciate both sides of the argument, and am not going to be binning various models purely based on the math (please note, I've not run the numbers myself - I trust this) - comes down to what you face most frequently.

[trevoroftzeentch]

Champ with melta bombs that's it.

[minigun762]

 

Champ with melta bombs that's it.

Don't forget that the free Plague Knife is a decent weapon, much better than a basic CCW.

[Urauloth]

Magnets are your friend. I've magged a choice of fist and plague knife on my champion, and when I get the time I'm probably going to add an axe as well in case I want to try that out.

 

Even so, I expect to run him with the knife and a meltabomb 90% of the time.

[hazard5259]

I do combi-plasma, power axe, and melta-bombs

[Xenith]

I'm quite happy to keep the plague knife to be honest. 3 attacks with str 4 poisoned aren't too bad, and against most MC's they are going to smash you in a challenge, so you'll only get a few hits in if at all.

 

Don't forget you reroll vs T4, if I remember correctly? Meaning you'll probably cause enough wounds on a 1 wound character to make them fail a save.

 

Against multiwound characters or MC's you were going to lose anyway, so why spend points on other gear?

[infyrana]

Seen this a lot in the past, and the LClaw seems to come up as per the quoted Chaeron's post.

 

Personally I'll be running the option for basic melee plague knife and bolter, with optional magnetised LClaws and fists to give me choice and edition/codex-proofing.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I usually only give mine Meltabombs so they can donkey punch monstrous creatures. Other than that I don't want to use any additional items to save points... If I did it'd be a power axe for the S5 AP2 and you don't have to give up the plague knife - equipped as such mine has taken down characters such as Khan.