Glaive vs. Blade

[AfroCampbell]

Does anybody else struggle to see why the Fellglaive is 100points more expensive than the Fellblade? It has lost the demolisher hull mounted cannon even! I understand that main gun is awesome, but ....... wow 100pts for a slightly different (i would argue NOT better just different) main cannon, and BS4 instead of BS3= Fellblade. BUT HAS LOST DEMOLISHER! weird...... maybe somebody could justify this to me....

[W0lfie]

Because it can already cause 4 haywire hits to another super heavy a turn?

 

Because it's main gun causes damage results to vehicles 35 times out of 36, and pens 5/9 times, even to land raiders?

 

Because the carronade, paired with the octuple lascannons are already stupidly good at killing tanks and the demo cannon would make it OP?

[hisdudeness]

Who needs a demolisher cannon when you have a 48" long, one inch wide beam that hits everything in its path?  No scatter, no roll to hit...

 

 

Then we have 2 quad las and TL Heavy Bolter that can target different units.  Think of what the primary targets are - mass infantry.  Auto hit, no normal saves, instant death for marines.  Even if we line it up for another Apoc class model, you still hit every thing between the glaive and the Apoc model. 

 

Much better then the fellblade if you ask me.

[Dono1979]

All of the above, currently way over powered, and will probably be nerfed down in the book it is released in. Thankfully FW actually experiment and listen to overwhelming feedback form the players.

[jeremy1391]

I want 3 for apocalypse !!!!!

[Hyaenidae]

Thankfully FW actually experiment and listen to overwhelming feedback form the players.

 

And this is why I've become more and more addicted to FW and their rulesets. Ironically, GeeDub could learn a lot from their child-company.

 

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/24580085.jpg

[depthcharge12]

Same here heathens.

 

I had questions about whether the beam would affect cover saves since one would think that beam would slice through trees.

 

Another question would deal with the beam through transports. If the beam penetrated through the transport/rhino/raider, would the beam cause wounds on the occupants? (I think maybe a d3+1 or d6 wounds might be appropriate.

 

As for the cheapness of the beam, I would respectfully disagree. Your opponent would know about the gun and not bunch up his guys in your favor anyway. At max would predict no more than a dozen guys get hit before factoring in deflagrate, and thats even a liberal guess.

 

I would think it would be cool for them to develop a retractable or folding template to match the beam specifics, but for now a tape measure works pretty well.

[hisdudeness]

I believe you are reading too much in to the fluff and ignoring the rules.

Unless there is a general clause for beams ignoring cover it just doesn’t happen. 

Again, I do not see anything in the rules that allows the beam to affect units in transports.  We need specific permission for this to happen.

I agree in theory but in practice it will be much harder to do with a ‘true’ 30k list.  It will affect the movement and deployment of enemy forces but there is only so much you can do with mass 20 man squads.  Unless you are playing on a very large table it is almost impossible to not bunch them. 

 

 

I agree 1000heathens, there seems to be much more background with FW lists and books.  My biggest problem is that I get bored with codex marines, when the only real difference is the paint an the models things get stale fast.  The supplement route maybe a good thing if they go all out in it. 

 

I feel GW missed out on the chapter tactics rule.  They could have put a point cost to a list of 50 or so and made it an option for Chapter Masters.  Now we can make any number of fluff or personal chapters.  If they did this in the next Codex, I would use my FW marine lists less and the Codex marines more.

 

[Dono1979]

Same here heathens.

 

 

As for the cheapness of the beam, I would respectfully disagree. Your opponent would know about the gun and not bunch up his guys in your favor anyway. At max would predict no more than a dozen guys get hit before factoring in deflagrate, and thats even a liberal guess.

 

And that's where the rarely used tactic of Tank Shocking comes into play, especially in a 30K list which can actually specialise in the tactic. You use fast moving tanks to hit infantry and force them into a nice neat bunches of meat and then hit them with the beam. With some forethought it is actually amazing what you can do when you conduct mass Tank Shocking.

 

For a laugh I played this army tactic for three games straight, truly amazing how many units fail their morale test when you are slamming into them three or four times a turn and they are testing at minus 1.

 

Just like other template weapons their usefullness can be greatly magnified by the tactics of other units within your army.

[Raven Angel]

Technically the Glaive is only 85pts more expensive then an equivalent Fellblade. As for why I think part of it is the Volkite tax but the main reason is probably because the Fellblade is a general purpose tank and the Glaive is a dedicated Monster, Titan, and super tank hunter. On paper at least she looks nasty enough to scare even a Warlord.

[Dono1979]

Not sure that that is entirely true. The Glaive's weapon profile includes the special rule of Haywire, which means that whenever damage is applied by this weapon against a vehicle you automatically activate the Haywire special rule instead of using the regular weapon stats (S8 AP1). Whilst Haywire is quite good against normal vehicles, it is woeful against Super Heavies, only glancing on a 6 and unable to Pen.

 

This mean that while a Super Heavy will indeed take 1D3+1 hits from the Glaive, these are actually Haywire hits, which can only glance on a 6! Pretty pathetic really, and then against a Titan with Void Shields you arent even getting through to the HP of the vehicle......

[AfroCampbell]

Not sure that that is entirely true. The Glaive's weapon profile includes the special rule of Haywire, which means that whenever damage is applied by this weapon against a vehicle you automatically activate the Haywire special rule instead of using the regular weapon stats (S8 AP1). Whilst Haywire is quite good against normal vehicles, it is woeful against Super Heavies, only glancing on a 6 and unable to Pen.

 

This mean that while a Super Heavy will indeed take 1D3+1 hits from the Glaive, these are actually Haywire hits, which can only glance on a 6! Pretty pathetic really, and then against a Titan with Void Shields you arent even getting through to the HP of the vehicle......

Yes, this is true, and whoever said that only 85pts dif has forgotten the lack of Demolisher cannon also significant.....

[AfroCampbell]

Because it can already cause 4 haywire hits to another super heavy a turn?

 

Because it's main gun causes damage results to vehicles 35 times out of 36, and pens 5/9 times, even to land raiders?

 

Because the carronade, paired with the octuple lascannons are already stupidly good at killing tanks and the demo cannon would make it OP?

actually only pens 1/6 times, and glances 4/6 times.

on Super Heavies, only causes a GLANCING on a 6....

source: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/apoc6thupdate.pdf

[Tiger9gamer]

Can this thing be brought to a regular apoc game? because I want this so much! I love the idea pf volkite weaponry, and really want this for a game or two.

[Raven Angel]

Well FW rules say HH only but Apoc rules say if you got it bring it so I guess it would depend on your group There's nothing about them that is overbalanced compared to other super heavies or Titans

[hisdudeness]

I second the motion...Apoc is a "drop it if you got it" expansion.  The only real limit is the limits your group sets.

 

HH (IMO) falls in a grey area between a regular game and Apoc game.  Kinda like a limited/controlled Apoc game.

[Tiger9gamer]

Sweet :D this thing looks so good. to bad I can't get the rules without a big book x-x

[daveNYC]

If you've ever considered shelling out for a FW book, the HH books are definitely the ones to get. 

 

And the glave is pretty freaking awesome.  The volkite face-eater is a damn sexy main gun, and the paint job they did around the muzzle is a beauty.

[Raven Angel]

The Glaive has rule right here at the moment.  http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/g/Glaive.pdf  As far as the Books I agree of all the books FW has done; and I have read them all; HH book 1 is by far the best. While I do think they are over costed, as I think all the rule books are, it is at least justifiable if you want the rules.

[Dono1979]

Even in Apoc, I try to keep the 30K and 40K seperate, if I am going to field 30K, I make sure that the entire Apoc force is only 30K units. Vice Versa, I try not to mix in 30K units with a 40K apoc list. But that's just my own restrictions,

[Raven Angel]

Why? Especially where super heavy stuff is concerned SMs don't role that out every day so the 30k stuff is perfect for SM based armies. They are also more expensive then their 40k equivalents

[Dono1979]

^{Mainly a personal choice, I dont feel right mixing 30K and 40K into a single force, feels a bit like cherry picking. If I am going to field a 30K army, I will make sure it is all 30K, why bother grabbing units from 40K? The only exception I might make is to field some IG units with the 30K while I am waiting for the Imperial Army rules to come out.}

^{This is, however, that same reason why I will field an apoc army from the same 'Codex' or list, I make an effort to not mix and match armies; if I field IG, it will be an all IG army, likewise marines. On rare occasions I will field an Allied component but will try to make sure I have some fluff reason and also try to ensure that the units fielded also make sense, so a HQ and some troops as well as others. I normalyl field an Ad Mech element to support my Titan in either 30K or 40K. Again all personal choice though.}

[Tiger9gamer]

Anyways, which one do you think is better in Apoc, the fellblade or the glaive? I was excited for it until I saw how small the beam actually is, and it might not do a lot of damage :/ so which one is better?

[Kol Saresk]

It would probably depend on what you're looking for. I admit ignorance but from looking at everything, the Fellblade is like a Jack-of-all trades while the Glaive is a super-heavy-killer that happens to be effective at wiping out infantry formations.

[Tiger9gamer]

but how many infantry guys can you kill, and what does the blade have?