"Battlemage" Librarian

[Caldria]

Hey there, I was just hoping to run by an idea and various ways to use it etc.

I've always thought of the librarians as a nice backfield support unit for devastators and other backfield units (though that is a great combo as I've found out in the last couple games I've played).

But over recent days I've started playing around with some ideas of a "warrior" type librarian. Granted, he'll never be a powerhouse combat unit like the other HQs we get, Belial/Azrael etc.

But I figured I'd try my hand at making one that is alright enough in combat, as some decent "combat" oriented psychic powers, and can support a combat oriented retinue.

So first things first, I gave him Terminator Armour, then decided the best force weapon for him to use would be the Force Axe. Then mastery level 2. Then I guess points-permitting, a decent Invuln save - Conversion Field of Displacer Field, not sure what I'd prefer, conversion field being cheaper but having a chance to blind my own guys, displacer field being more expensive and teleporting my libby to randomy locationsm, but giving an invuln to match the Stormshields.

Now for psychic powers, Prescience is still a great option for both shooty and combat oriented units. Then for the second power I wanted a nice combat power. But I know that Pyromancy is rather...dull with only Molten Beam really standing out (but the chances of getting it in the roll is slim). So I thought about Telepathy, it has some great powers in there and even if I don't get a roll I want, or don't actually want any of them to begin with - there is Psychic Shriek, which seems like a fairly solid primaris power to act as my "combat power"

Then which retinue to stick him with.. well Deathwing Knights were my first choice, and are still probably my most favourite option. Although a regular cyclone deathwing squad came to mind as well.

Now one of the things bugging me (besides whether this is a decent loadout or not) is whether this guy is fit enough to actually lead the force, or if he should still be Belial or Azrael's 2IC. I'm currently working on the mixed wing list that includes Belial with this Libby (probably not the smartest choice) but I'd really like to try to get as much synergy between the 3 "wings" and don't want a pure death/raven/green wing army. The issue I'm running into now is Belial a waste if you dont have more than 1 scoring termie unit and a unit of deathwing knights, conversely is it a waste to bring 2 termie units (one regular, one knights) if you DON'T bring Belial.

Also Belial's no scatter is great. Then say I keep belial with the libby, who best fits with who. Libby with the knights and Belial with the "tac" termies. or the other way around? And If I don't use Belial, Is the libby good enough to lead the army with his knights, which leave only tac marines as troops.

Anyway, sorry for the long wall of text - I'm interested in seeing other people's "battle" librarian builds (a librarian that actually contributes more than just prescience or PFG) if you guys have any ^^

Thanks in advance!


 

[Stormtrooper-VII]

Well, I would give the librarian Terminator armour and the mace of redemption and perhaps the displacer field, this makes him pretty tough but the problem is the librarian has a fairly mediocre stat line and so will usually get beaten by other HQs and those options turn him into a points sink. If you really want a close combat oriented leader that buffs your forces I would go for an Interrogator-Chaplain with a power fist or something along those lines. 

 

For the retinue, if you're not running Belial a Deathwing command squad is the best choice because than you can get the standard of devestation and all of the other bonuses that the command squad can bring.

 

Also  Belial's not that much of waste if you only include one Terminator squad because he isn't that much more expensive than a tooled out Company Master and he turns that single terminator squad into an additional scoring unit. 

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Caldria,

 

I know many will state go with an Interregator Chappy or similar for a "Battle Character" there is also Ezekiel whom has a fairly decent statline (Company Master Equivalent with the Book) the only thing he lacks is a Invulnerable save. Not bad at challenges and probably could eat many a Captain type for lunch. I would say if you don't mind taking a huge "deathstar type" you could have Zeke in a Squad with Azrael thus he gets a 4++ from the Lion Helm and you have two monsterous Battle Characters to go with. If you don't like Special Characters then your set up or a Interregator Chappy is probably as good as your going to get.

 

One benefit of the double Azrael Zeke combo is that one accepts a challenge and should have a decent chance of smiting the opponent. While the other murders the squad that the HQ is with. This is of course expensive and I'm not saying very efficient use of points (you have to figure out how to get them into melee after all) but I've found this to be a good high points game combo with a squad of Vets or Command Squad they tear through anything (the points your paying they should tear through anything) but of course its style and what you really really want. So my vote goes to Zeke as a "Battle Mage" since he would probably be cheaper or the same price as what you would get the Termi librarian for. And he's a ML 3 with some Ok powers.

 

Two Cents as always

DoC

 

[Brother Amarel]

I use a 'Battle Librarian' to deal with difficult to remove monstrous creatures such as Riptides (T6 & 2+/3++ save really makes them take too long to take down with shooting). For this purpose he gets the following - Level 2 with Power Armour (MC's remove all armour saves, anyway), Force Axe, Conversion Field & Digital Weapons with Prescience and Psychic Shriek (I don't even both rolling on the tables). It's worked okay, so far.

 

With regards who to bodyguard him, it rather relies on points, but a cheap Tac Squad (as a wounds soak) with a Vet Sarge with Power Weapon (for removing any challenge risks) is fine for the purpose (if not very exciting).

[elphilo]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

[Caldria]

Hey thanks for all the comments, awesome stuff.

I didn't really even think of Ezekial, shame on me - and for only 145 points he seems great for what he brings, only 2 things bug me with him though: 1 is no inv save, and 2 is that he can't deepstrike with the knights or other termies (which is what I had originally planned). However, sticking him with some knights in a Land Raider is a pretty decent idea, but I think that would more likely be for bigger points games, not really 1750 - Land Raiders being too expensive, and running only 1 puts a giant target on it. But I will definitely be trying to use him in a 2k game. awesome idea.

Also, I had thought of the int. chaplain quite a bit, I've tried him out once or twice too - he just hasnt really done anything special for me yet. Also I don't really want a powerhouse combat HQ out of him, I'll leave that to Belial or whoever. What I'm trying to aim for the libby is a sort of combat support libby - instead of sitting in the back throwing out prescience and his PFG for devs (again, this is a great combo, but it's all I've ever used a libby for so far, and I'd like to try something different I guess)

So he alone is not really meant to perform great deeds, but just be a nice frontline support for his unit.
and as you say elphilo, he can let the knights take the saves with their stormshields - then the knight master for challenges, that is exactly what i had in mind. Then he can keep prescience on them, since they dont benefit from the vengeful strike rule. (I also find prescience better than Zealot imo)

I guess this idea would be better in a pure deathwing list. Belial with command squad, Libby with knight squad - both in land raiders. Which I might try one day, just dont want to go pure of any wing yet.

But, thanks everyone for the suggestions - more are always welcome, some really cool ideas in here so far :D

[Brother Amarel]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

[elphilo]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

Because riptides are the only MCs in the game right?

[Brother Amarel]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

Because riptides are the only MCs in the game right?

An IC with Mace of Redemption is 140pts. A Librarian with Force Axe, Power Sword, Conversion Field, Digital Weapons and Psychic Shriek & Prescience is the same cost. Personally, I'd rather have the Librarian - he can buff, give out insta-death to MC's and other hard to kill individuals, cause a large pool of wounds at range, is nearly as hardy (and better vs opposing psykers) and can kill flotsam in CC at Initiative with the Power Sword.

[elphilo]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

Because riptides are the only MCs in the game right? :D

An IC with Mace of Redemption is 140pts. A Librarian with Force Axe, Power Sword, Conversion Field, Digital Weapons and Psychic Shriek & Prescience is the same cost. Personally, I'd rather have the Librarian - he can buff, give out insta-death to MC's and other hard to kill individuals, cause a large pool of wounds at range, is nearly as hardy (and better vs opposing psykers) and can kill flotsam in CC at Initiative with the Power Sword.

While the Librarian can buff very well this edition, the IC can buff with hatred more reliably and not have the chance to blow his head off. Now if I had Belial or Sammuel as my HQ and only one HQ slot left, yes I would pick the Librarian in that situation. But I wouldn't have him set up as a combat power house and rush him into melee, that isn't his place. He's there to buff my squads. And the increase of Psychic Defense is so miniscule its laughable. Most of the time you're going up against Mastery Level 3 opponents so you're only get a 5+. And I don't know about you, but I tend to fail those a lot. The only reason you do Mastery Level 2 is to get an extra roll on the table. So don't kid yourself, you're doing it for a buff not for defense.

And I don't know why you're sending in the Librarian to do the Monstrous Creature hunting when you can just send in a squad of Deathwing Knights. Yes they only do it once, but you're only going to see one Great Unclean one on the other side of the table. Everything else is generally T6, with the exclusion of Wraithlord/knight. So the IC with MoR is actually better because he's S7, now he doesn't cause instant death but he still doesn't need 6s to wound with 2 attacks in TDA. Regardless in the end our best MC killer are the DWKs. Also don't you think its a bit disingenuous to make the match up of a Librarian versus a Riptide? The Riptide is terrible in melee. That isn't a badge of honor to say you killed a riptide in melee, it happens a lot.

In the end it is the OPs decision, I was just offering up another opinion to make sure the OP knows all of his options. If thats wrong, then I don't want to be right

[jeremy1391]

Psychic shrieking someone's riptide to death is my way of telling those blue dolphin men where they can stick their gundam!

[BigGumbo]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

No it isn't "proven on the table", since all you can prove on the table is that in one particular situation, one particular outcome ensued. Unless, of course, you've had enough games against Tau, with your chosen build, to represent a good sample (even that isn't really proof but it's at least strong evidence)...

[Brother Amarel]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

Because riptides are the only MCs in the game right?

Because recommending an IC in a thread requesting "Battle Librarian" builds is the pinnacle of usefulness?

An IC with Mace of Redemption is 140pts. A Librarian with Force Axe, Power Sword, Conversion Field, Digital Weapons and Psychic Shriek & Prescience is the same cost. Personally, I'd rather have the Librarian - he can buff, give out insta-death to MC's and other hard to kill individuals, cause a large pool of wounds at range, is nearly as hardy (and better vs opposing psykers) and can kill flotsam in CC at Initiative with the Power Sword.

So the OP wants opinions on a combat Librarian. I offer up the opinion that if you wanted a powerhouse melee character that the IC with MoR is a better choice, and thats wrong? Now I understand if he's already looked at other options in the codex and still decided he wants the Librarian, I'll say okay and move on. The OP did not state that so I thought it was pertinent to this conversation to mention other options. Then I gave out advice on what I would do in his position if he wanted to stick with the Librarian. You decided to then "reprimand" me for daring to question his decision.

While the Librarian can buff very well this edition, the IC can buff with hatred more reliably and not have the chance to blow his head off. Now if I had Belial or Sammuel as my HQ and only one HQ slot left, yes I would pick the Librarian in that situation. But I wouldn't have him set up as a combat power house and rush him into melee, that isn't his place. He's there to buff my squads. And the increase of Psychic Defense is so miniscule its laughable. Most of the time you're going up against Mastery Level 3 opponents so you're only get a 5+. And I don't know about you, but I tend to fail those a lot. The only reason you do Mastery Level 2 is to get an extra roll on the table. So don't kid yourself, you're doing it for a buff not for defense.

And I don't know why you're sending in the Librarian to do the Monstrous Creature hunting when you can just send in a squad of Deathwing Knights. Yes they only do it once, but you're only going to see one Great Unclean one on the other side of the table. Everything else is generally T6, with the exclusion of Wraithlord/knight. So the IC with MoR is actually better because he's S7, now he doesn't cause instant death but he still doesn't need 6s to wound with 2 attacks in TDA. Regardless in the end our best MC killer are the DWKs. Also don't you think its a bit disingenuous to make the match up of a Librarian versus a Riptide? The Riptide is terrible in melee. That isn't a badge of honor to say you killed a riptide in melee, it happens a lot.

In the end it is the OPs decision, I was just offering up another opinion to make sure the OP knows all of his options. If thats wrong, then I don't want to be right

The OP asked a specific question and your statement was that he's got Librarians all wrong in this edition. I hardly think offering a counterpoint to your blanket statement is a 'reprimand'. Again in your most recent response you categorically state that what you think is your definition of a Librarian is correct. I don't agree with your statement - for example, you don't "only go to level 2 to get an extra roll on the table" (especially as if you're relying on spells from the table, then that's going to create a big problem for you a lot of the time), you go to level 2 for the base spells and to give yourself casting and force weapon options.

So, seeing as you clearly know very little about running Librarians in 6th, you'll forgive me if I feel that your statements deserve a counter-arguement.

[Brother Amarel]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

No it isn't "proven on the table", since all you can prove on the table is that in one particular situation, one particular outcome ensued. Unless, of course, you've had enough games against Tau, with your chosen build, to represent a good sample (even that isn't really proof but it's at least strong evidence)...

Yes, I have. Thanks for checking.

At some point 'strong empirical evidence' and 'mathematical evidence' combined have to become 'proof'. I believe that I am at that point.

[elphilo]

The OP asked a specific question and your statement was that he's got Librarians all wrong in this edition. I hardly think offering a counterpoint to your blanket statement is a 'reprimand'. Again in your most recent response you categorically state that what you think is your definition of a Librarian is correct. I don't agree with your statement - for example, you don't "only go to level 2 to get an extra roll on the table" (especially as if you're relying on spells from the table, then that's going to create a big problem for you a lot of the time), you go to level 2 for the base spells and to give yourself casting and force weapon options.

 

So, seeing as you clearly know very little about running Librarians in 6th, you'll forgive me if I feel that your statements deserve a counter-arguement.

I know that in Wargames Con there was a 3rd place IG list that brought DA allies in. You want to know what they brought? A Librarian lvl 2 and 5 scouts with sniper rifles. Thats it. Now I'm sure they brought the Librarian for the combat powerhouse that it is. Oh no, they brought it in for a cheap Prescience and another divination power. I guess one can say now its been tested on the table that the Librarian's main role is to buff units, right?

 

The only power you should rely on getting 100% of the time is Prescience, anything else you roll up on divination is just a bonus. Hence why you go for level 2 mastery. The Librarian isn't meant to be a combat power house its main role should be buffing a squad. You can't sit there and tell me its better in melee comparatively to an IC, because its not true. This forum has already had this discussion come up in 30 different threads since the codex has come out and the general consensus is that if you want that power house melee HQ the IC is the better option. The Librarian is only slightly better than a base marine in combat. The only things that puts them apart is the WS5, 2 attacks base and the chance to cause instant death. And versus things that actually care about instant death 90% of the time they're going to go before the Librarian. And if you take a Force Axe, then 99% of the time they will go before you.

[Smurfalypse]

Throw your "Combat Libby" vs Hive Tyrant, Greater Daemon, Daemon Prince, Wraith Knight, Wraith Lord (you get where I am going with this) and see how well that goes for you. Riptide is not that good in CC that is for sure, but  boosts himself 2d6" in the assault phase (usually out of assault range), so unless you are playing against someone who thinks it is a good idea to charge their Riptides at you the army you should never really reach CC with it. I mean his guns are 60" range. . . No reason for him to be close to any line.

 

I also call BS on the "strong empirical evidence" you claim to have. No offense, but a combat Libby is just a terrible idea. 

[Caldria]

Well thanks everyone for the suggestions, been awesome - I feel though, that I should clear up what exactly I had in mind when I said "battlemage"

If I am correct, I never said that I expected or even wanted a librarian that could go toe to toe with MCs or out perform combat HQs like the Int. Chaplain or Belial etc.
I did say though that I wanted him to act as a combat(should probably stop using that word : p) support for a combat unit (i.e. Knights, were one of my suggestions)

And yes, the cheapest option is Libby - TDA, ML 1 with force axe and Prescience. I also love the combo of a libby with PFG and presience at the back with devs, it's the only thing ive ever done with a libby so far (which is also one of the reasons I feel like a change, and with me wanting to try more deathwing too).

My real question or proposed idea was if there was a way to give that cheap TDA Libby with the knights, just a bit more punch - SO THAT, he is not JUST there for prescience. And if so, what were people's various ideas on what they saw as a "battlemage" librarian.

If a libby with TDA, Force Axe, ML 1 using prescience with the knights is really the best option with nothing better (while still using the libby) then fair enough. But It has been really awesome seeing the various other ideas for the libby, since they are fairly versatile compared to the Int. Chaplain - which to me seems boring since very single Int. Chaplain is run the exact same way (though I do know that the current codex promotes him being run as such)

Anyway, If I failed to convey exactly what I was asking: (a libby that goes into the frontlines with a combat unit and helps it do combat better while not being just a 95 pt Prescience Generator himself), then I profusely apologise ^^

I have loved reading the various ideas though.

On a side note, I recently played 2 games with Ezekial and never managed to use psychic shriek or mind worm once (either out of 12" range or in combat), only prescience - but I feel that was due to bad placement/movement on my part most of the time, And he only got 1 kill in each game - one of them was, however, a fully tooled out slaanesh warlord with 3 wounds still, yay for force weapon. This did end up giving me 3 points though, kill points and warlord/the hunt. Either way, I'll try Ezekial out a bit more, as a way to get used to running a libby who gets into combat - ultimately Ezekial will be replaced with the TDA libby (since he can deepstrike with his unit at least)

Anyway, less arguing! we're all Unforgiven Brothers here : P

[Retaliation]

I actually like using Ezekiel along with a gunslinger company vet squad. All their weapons have 12" range, the book of salvation is actually pretty useful, and all those plasma pistols benefit hugely from divination. I've only ever played 2 games of tabletop (one of which was combat patrol so no HQs), but he would have been a huge help in the melee that the first game ended up in. Sadly he died to massed bolter fire because I refused to put wounds on my company vets with LoS.

 

On the plus side that one prescience cast he managed to get off was a huge help in snap firing that flying daemon prince to death.

[FragEmAll]

Lets all just take a step back. Lets accept the fact that a "Combat Librarian" isn't always going to be the best option. Yes an Int Chappy with the Mace is considered one of the best things. But lets also not forget that the original poster may have a Librarian model and not a Chaplain model. The question was how to get the best out of him in a role that possibly wasn't the Codex authors plan for him.

You need to firstly boost the number of attacks, so Terminator Armour isn't going to help as you can't have a pistol. Working on the assumption that you don't have a bike Librarian modelled he'll have to be in power armour for pistol and sword combo. Give him digi weapons to aid the wounds, and work on the assumption that you'll have prescience or Precognition for your combat power.

There is no point really having the shriek power as you'll only be able to cast 2 powers, and 1 of them will need to be the force sword ability and the other will be the prescience to ensure the hits get made. So your other power needs to be something to help the Libby and his unit before they get into combat.

I reckon a dual roll on Divination is your best bet if you are walking him with a squad of shooty terminators. Prescience will help the hits and Misfortune would help ensure the enemies hit stay down. Ignore cover won't be much use with storm bolters firing but with a cyclone would be able to pop power armour in cover. Precognition would be kept instead of prescience.

So to summerise I would go for Power sword/boltpistol/Digiweapons/Displacer Field and pray for precognition on the ability roll. Go in with shooty terminators and that'll be your best shot.

Or...........Get an Interrogator chaplain. On a bike. With the Mace of Redemption. And follow us in the herd

Or..........Get Ezekiel. Because he's evil.

Or..........Do both and get called all sorts of names [insert evil laugh]

BUT.......enjoy your gaming however you do it, and let us know what works and what doesn't.

[BigGumbo]

I honestly think you're looking at Librarians all wrong. This edition Librarians are more suited as a buffer, not a combat power house. If you're looking for a combat power house the Interrogator-Chaplain with Mace of Redemption would be the way to go.

But if you're dead set on the Librarian, I would honestly just leave him the way you have him but with no conversion/displacer field. Yes he'll only have a 5++ but if he's in a group of Deathwing Knights, the Knight Master is more suited for a challenge. Plus you can LOS all his wounds so the DWK can use their 3++ from the storm shield. And if you charge into a Monstrous Creature, you're going to want to smite that sucker to death instead of having the Librarian challenge on the off chance you'll get a force axe wound off on him.

Just my humble opinion

The Librarian with Force Axe is the best option vs a Riptide (proven on the table). The IC would be, pretty much, a waste of points in this scenario.

Work out what you need and then what is the best fit.

No it isn't "proven on the table", since all you can prove on the table is that in one particular situation, one particular outcome ensued. Unless, of course, you've had enough games against Tau, with your chosen build, to represent a good sample (even that isn't really proof but it's at least strong evidence)...

Yes, I have. Thanks for checking.

At some point 'strong empirical evidence' and 'mathematical evidence' combined have to become 'proof'. I believe that I am at that point.

Good for you, although that's an awful lot of games since the new Tau landed, diligently testing all of the alternatives under a range of conditions;-). Do you manage to find time for anything else?

[facmanpob]

Guys, honestly, the sarcasm and mud slinging is beneath you! :(

[Isiah]

Yes I agree. Several posts have been hidden and some edited.

 

Otherwise some interesting replies.

 

Cheers

I

[Master Avoghai]

I really don't understand what makes zeke evil... He knows a useless additional spell and has one attack less than the other libbies...

Sure he gets bonus with the book and all but at this cost... Gah...

 

I find him as good as asmodai...

[facmanpob]

I'm imagining Azrael and Ezekiel, emerging from a Land Raider with a close combat Command Squad, toting the Standard of Fortitude, surrounded by deep striking terminators.......

Azzy gives Zeke and the Command Squad 4++

Command Squad gives everyone 5+ FNP

Zeke makes the Command squad WS5, and Azzy WS7

Casts Prescience in the movement phase, Mind Worm in the shooting phase, activating his Force sword in the assault phase.....

Is it a HUGE investment in points? You bet. Would it be fun? Definitely......probably best to leave it for the big games though

I like Zeke.....3 wounds, Initiative 5, WS 5, BS 5, ML 3, 2+ save.....not that expensive really when you compare him with a ML2 libby and take into account the artificer armour, the extra point on initiative and the extra wound......

[Master Avoghai]

Yeah but we're back on the same debate : he costs more than 200pts for CC bonuses whereas CC is not a Libby's first place AND we got best CC character with other great bonuses to the army...

To me it's like making of Eldrad a CC Farseer...