Word Bearer allies

[UltraCaptain]

In light of other similar topics, I need a bit of help deciding which legion would be most fluffy or which legions would fit Word Bearers as allies. All options are open, so feel free.

 

World Eaters: For duking it out together against Ultramarines

Thousand Sons: Logar sook wisdom from Magnus, might imply Logar respect Magnus as a friend?

Sons of Horus: The only battlebrothers Word Bearers have, and the two of them are kind of the leaders/true rebels of the heresy, one could say.

 

I also need help understanding why Dark Angels, Emperors Children, White Scar and Salemanders are fellow warriors, when so many others are distrusted?

[Conn Eremon]

Well, Salamanders have the most battle-brothers of any other Legion. So I'd take them as universally liked. Reinforcing Vulkan's image, and by extension his Legion, as a total bro.

 

Lorgar was fascinated with Fulgrim after his possession, so perhaps that's meant for after he and his legion fell.

 

The Khan protested the Emperor's handling of Monarchia, I think. Perhaps a close relationship there.

 

No idea on the Dark Angels.

 

However, if it was me, I'd be waiting for Forgeworld to release models and rules on Imperial Army. Devout believers of the Creed prior to Lorgar's discovery of Chaos to chaos cultists afterwards. Of all the Legions, I like the idea of the Ultramarines and Word Bearers allying with mortal forces instead of other Legions.

 

If not, go for the Sons of Horus.

[Kol Saresk]

Fascinated wouldn't be the right word. He wanted to exorcise Fulgrim. If the possession was more like Argel Tal-Raum where it was more... "symbiotic", or if it was anyone other than a fellow Primarch that was being dominated, Lorgar might have been okay with it. But because it was Fulgrim, Lorgar had a problem with it. But, the Emperor's Children were also one of the fastest conversions as well, when compared to when the other Traitors converted. Technically they were Chaos before even the Sons of Horus. So I could see the Legions being brothers, if not the Primarchs until Lorgar knows Fulgrim has reasserted control and even ascended, if he doesn't already.

 

Pre-Heresy, well the Emperor's Children were very methodical and strategic and IIRC, that was also a trait the Word Bearers shared, although not to the same degree as their III Legion brothers so there would be common ground there as well.

 

For the Dark Angels, I imagine it would be Pre-Heresy and it would probably be a similar relation to the Chaplains and Knights of old. Could always be wrong.

 

The White Scars, not sure about them. I admit, my fluff knowledge concerning the White Scars is very weak.

 

This is all just speculation from my point of view though.

[UltraCaptain]

Imperial Army could be an option, or even daemons. Especially if the Blood Angel book includes options for them. But that is nearly two years away for both imperial and daemons.

I think the alliance and relations will change throughout the books, would make no sense to stay fellow warriors with loyalist atleast. So maybe new relations will be created. I guess the reason for many of the relations, is due to pre-heresy fluff we don't know so much about, or simply similar minds.

[Conn Eremon]

I agree that there needs to be changes to the matrix. What I'd like to see is three variations, a Pre-Heresy, before brother fought brother, a early Heresy, when no one's quite sure who is loyal to who and a late Heresy, when the 9 vs 9 is set in stone.

 

And I had forgotten that, Kol. I just remembered that there was added attention and I was thinking that since Horus wants the daemon out and Lorgar's all about the symbiosis, he must be okay with it.

[Kol Saresk]

True, but Lorgar thinks of "symbiosis" in its most basic form: Two beings working together. That's why he doesn't have a problem with Argek Tal and Raum. They do nothing to hurt each other. Fulgrim's relationship with the daemon was more like parasitism. True, the daemon started "helping" Fulgrim but eventually it dominated him and it proved that everything it did, it did for itself. Combine the nature of the relationship to the fact that it wass a brother Primarch involved, Lorgar loses any and all admiration or tolerance he normally would have had. Or at least, that's the impression that I get.

 

But you are right, Lorgar is about symbiosis. But only symbiosis. If parasitism occurs, then it better be for the greater good of Humanity and it better not be the wrong person.

[Wade Garrett]

 

I seem to remember that Aurelian featured Lorgar teleporting Legion onto the III's ships and threatening to kill them all once he found out what Fulgrim's situation was, and going by the Dark Disciple trilogy the Word Bearers have not warmed up to the Emperor's Children in the ten thousand years since then.

 

And Kol, I'm not sure I agree about the Seventeenth being methodical and strategic. In TFH and KNF, we see them deploying numerous Assault Marines and bikers...the impression I got is the Bearers of the Word seek to bring swift wrath to all who would deny the truth, be it the divinity of the Emperor at first, or the glory of the Powers Behind All later.

 

Purely personal opinion here, but I'd think the Bearers and the Wolves should be allies pre Heresy. Both have an aggressive combat style, both are considered overly superstitous by other Legions, Russ spoke in Lorgar's favor to the Emperor, and going by Betrayer he and the Urizen were close enough for Lorgar to share some of his writings with the Wolf King.

 

I seem to remember that Aurelian featured Lorgar teleporting Legion onto the III's ships and threatening to kill them all once he found out what Fulgrim's situation was, and going by the Dark Disciple trilogy the Word Bearers have not warmed up to the Emperor's Children in the ten thousand years since then.

 

And Kol, I'm not sure I agree about the Seventeenth being methodical and strategic. In TFH and KNF, we see them deploying numerous Assault Marines and bikers...the impression I got is the Bearers of the Word seek to bring swift wrath to all who would deny the truth, be it the divinity of the Emperor at first, or the glory of the Powers Behind All later.

 

Purely personal opinion here, but I'd think the Bearers and the Wolves should be allies pre Heresy. Both have an aggressive combat style, both are considered overly superstitous by other Legions, Russ spoke in Lorgar's favor to the Emperor, and going by Betrayer he and the Urizen were close enough for Lorgar to share some of his writings with the Wolf King.

[Kol Saresk]

Not. Exactly. In The First Heretic, we saw almost everything from Argel Tal's point of view. Argel Tal was the Captain of an Assault Company, which would mean that he saw lots of bikes and Assault Marines.

 

But then if you go to Scions of the Storm, which is a different POV of the exact same battle, you see the siege element because the story shows the shield being taken down thanks to the strategies of a certain Coryphaus known as Kol Badar, an event referenced in TFH. There was even mention if a Vindicator from Firestorm, which is supposed to be the armoured battalion of the Serrated Sun Chapter. Even then, all we really see of the Word Bearers in TFH is Malnor Assault Squad, Torgal Assault Squad and Dagotal Outrider Squad. Not exactly a lot.

 

In Scions of the Storm, we see a total of five Assault Companies were launched; the Fourth, Seventh, Ninth, Seventeenth and the Thirty-Fourth. So five hundred marines were either Assault troops or bikers, out of a Legion of thousands. A couple of pages later, we see "Devastator-Havocs"(exact words used; it was well before Betrayal) toting lascannons. On page 171, Sor Talgron describes looking down from a height and seeing "thousands of granite-grey armoured battle-brothers, accompanied by scores of the Legion's tanks".

 

Between the two views, we see that the XVII attacked the city with a mixed effort, both Assault and Armor with a heavy leaning towards Armor.

 

In Know No Fear, the first recorded shots on the ground are bolter rounds and plasma bursts that were fired by XVII Tactical Marines. Those are followed by lascannons, graviton guns, meltas, storm bolters and rotary cannons. The rest of KNF, we see what is to be known as the "typical" Word Bearers doctrine; Tactical Marines following Cultist Cannon Fodder with Daemonic Shock Troops.

 

And technically, all three instances show an overwhelming strategy at work, although it failed spectacularly at Calth. Then again, according to Betrayer and The Underground War, none of the XVII who went to Calth were supposed to survive. So I guess you could say it was a partial failure as they did succeed in losing.

 

You can even see another form of strategy at work in Betrayer, when Lorgar and Angron draw out the defending fleet and then ambushed it with two Abyss-class kingships. Granted, the strategy went all to the warp on the surface but hey, at least they tried.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, I didn't mean to make the Seventeenth sound like Angron's boys or the Blood Angels, they're true believers, not mindless berserkers.

 

And while they did hit the Ultras with cultist meat shields backed by Tacticals they also had Assault Marines landing on the walls simaltaneously (page 274 of Know No Fear) which is more combined arms, but given the lack of Jetpack guys in A Thousand Sons, Fulgrim, Prospero Burns, Angel Exterminatus, etc. that and TFH made it seem like they had a higher than average number of assault/fast attack units in their ranks.

[Kol Saresk]

Fair enough