Ragnar in next codex

[Akela]

I was looking at custom parts online the other day when I ran across some nice parts from Kromlech that would be great for a homemade Ragnar.

 

   It got me to thinking that, while I love using Drop Pods in my lists and Ragnar's great company are the "ndisputed masters of the Drop Pod assaults known as the Claws of Russ," I have never fielded Ragnar.

 

   I examined this possible oversight and realized that it was probably for two reasons 1) I have a lovely Logan Grimnar, and if I'm going to field a high point HQ, it'll be him and 2) Ragnar doesn't actually do anything amazing for a Drop Pod Assault

 

   I would like to see something added in the next codex similar to Vanguard squads for Codex Marines.  Basically, he can use a refined version of Berzerk Charge and choose to forgo shooting after exiting a Drop Pod, and instead assault.

 

     I would think it's overpowered except that Vanguard can do it without having to add a character costing almost as much as a Land Raider, not to mention that Ragnar couldn't do this solo since he doesn't have access to a Drop Pod unless he joins a pack in one prior to deployment.

 

   Of course, the implications are one heck of a deathstar.  Plunk him and Arjac in with some Grey Hunters w/ a Wolf banner.  Expensive but nigh-unstoppable.

[Baba Lem]

Vanguards are expensive. You have to deepstrike close to be in charge range with the possibility of being destroyed. Drop Pods allow you a safe deepstrike. Therefore, assaulting out of Drop Pods, will never happen in any army that wasn't made by Forgeworld.

[skeletoro]

What I'd like them to do (next codex perhaps) is change Frost Blades to "relics." The new codices are getting a bunch of wargear items that are 1/army, but which "break the rules" in some fashion - for instance, giving AP2 @ init, or some other horrendously scary special rule that would be completely overpowered if spammed.

 

I'd like frost weapons to become limited in a similar manner but to become more powerful/memorable. Logan's axe fits the kind of thing I'm getting at.

 

Relevance to this thread? Ragnar's main weakness is a lack of AP2, IMO (followed by a relatively weak invulnerable save). If I remember correctly, the fact that he had a frost blade used to be a distinguishing feature. I didn't play wolves in 2nd ed so don't know, but I was under the impression that back then, pretty much only Ragnar got one... wasn't Frostblade even a proper noun (i.e. unique?) used to describe his weapon? Perhaps not... but that's my hunch going from what my friend told me nearly 2 decades ago.

 

Dunno. Maybe give it Rending?

[Valerian]

I used Ragnar in every 5e game that I played and I was completely satisfied with his performance. I have not, however, played a 6e game yet, so can't speak to how he'd fare now.

The places where falls short is in Armour; for his points, he really ought to have the 2+ save of Runic Armour. If they improved Frost Weapons, that'd be okay, too.

I wouldn't be opposed to a tie-in to drop pod insertion, but assaulting from one probably wouldn't be it.

V

 

EDIT:  For skeletoro, back in 2e Ragnar had a Master-crafted Bolt Pistol and Frostfang, his Chainsword; the two comprised two of his Wargear Cards, leaving him one that you could chose (these two were mandatory for him).  Frostfang was a unique weapon "crafted centuries ago by the Iron Priest Fergus Forgrim, the famed master craftsman of the Space Wolves.  Its chainsaw blade is fashioned from a rare metal whose secret died with the ancient Iron Priest."  The term "Frost Weapon" didn't arise until the 3e mini-dex, and Frostfang became the first and most famous of those.

 

I'd love for him to get Master-crafted back for his Bolt Pistol, and get it for his frost blade (to further highlight the uniqueness of Frostfang), in addition to the Runic Armour mentioned above.

[Valerian]

Getting back to this thread at the end of the day and nobody has posted in the meantime.  Anyway, I had a chance to look through the DA codex just for kicks, and Ragnar really doesn't compare very well, despite costing a Power Fist more than Chapter Master Azrael.  Certainly, Ragnar has his Insane Bravado and War Howl special rules, as well as his Saga of the Warrior Born.  Those are decent abilities, but 55 points seems a bit steep to pay for the Bravado and Howl alone (difference in cost from Ragnar and an otherwise identically armed generic Wolf Lord).  

 

I know that you can't always compare between codices, but it seems fairly appropriate to compare between two SM Commanders like Ragnar and Azrael.  For 25 less points, Azrael comes with: 1) an additional Wound (better stat-line), 2) a much better ranged weapon (master-crafted combi-plasmagun), 3) much better armour (Articifer Armour (2+) that also grants a 6+ Feel No Pain), 4) much better special close combat weapon (master-crafted power weapon that adds +2 to strength). 5) a much better invulnerable saave (still 4++, but it applies to Azrael and his entire unit).  For special rules he gets Fearless, Rites of Battle (Ld 10 for the entire DA army), and he makes Ravenwing Attack Squadrons and Deathwing Terminator Squads into troops.  Azreal has a lot of advantages over Ragnar at a lower cost, so it'd be nice to see a little love combined with a slight points reduction for Ragnar in the next codex (although I'll continue to play him regardless).

 

One of the few things that I am looking forward to in a future codex is how they might take care of Ragnar.

 

V

[hendrik]

i've used him a couple of times in 5th and then he rocked. hoawever i agree with you valerian, for his point cost he doesn't bring that much anymore to the table, sonsidering how easely he can get caught in a duel where his lack of 2+ armour save will cost him dearly. in all honesty though i have to admit i'm rather unimpressed by all of the special abilites our special characters offer in comparison to what special characters of other codexes seem to offer on a pts to pts comparison.

what i never understood was ragnar his "low" WS,when a lot of background fluff describes him as one of the best swordsman in the SW's ranks

[Ghostwolfalpha]

Also, incredible reflexes leads you to believe his initiative should be higher then the standard wolf lord. That could make up for his lack of 2+ at least a bit.

[Griz]

I think the chief point here is that when he was written in the 5th Ed codex he was VERY much worth his point cost.

 

The big issue now is that a lot of the reasons that made him so much more appealing and ultimately effective in 5th are now not as prominent.  For 240pts Ragnar has the Insane Bravado, War Howl and Incredible Reflexes.

 

Now in 5th with the War Howl buff providing Furious Charge to his unit and himself and a once per game any Space Wolves within 12" gain the rule as well was simple amazing for the  +1 S and +1 I.  Also consider that his frost blade was "ignores armor saves".  He'd walk through just about anything provided he was in assault and didn't get instant killed by double str hits.

 

Fast forward to 6th Ed and Furious Charge is now only +1 Str - this significantly reduces the potency of War Howl and renders Ragnar as a less desirable choice as an HQ given such a high point cost.   Not to mention his frostblade is only ap3 now instead of "ignores armor saves".  Coupled with the addition of challenges rule - he can get locked in with the wrong guy and it's not fun to watch.

 

in 6th Ed he just isn't worth his points anymore.  You have to be VERY selective of the units you want to engage otherwise he's going to go down fairly quickly or get locked up and you've just wasted 240pts.

 

That being said - going forward with the 6th Ed codex I'd only like to see him reunited with Frost Fang - why it got down played to a 'frost blade' without any sort of history or any additional rules I don't know.  But he really needs to have an ap2 weapon at regular initiative IMO.  I hope they keep Saga of the Warrior Born as I think it's a nice touch and I have to agree that an initiative boost is needed to his stat line.

[skeletoro]

Yes, init 6, and maybe not full-on ap2 (That would be a little TOO good :P) but something a bit better than AP3 would also be nice. AP3 + rending might work, and if he's getting lots of attacks, the AP2 wounds can add up.

[Valerian]

Just to throw out my straight up wishlisting, I'd go with same as now plus:

 

1. Runic Armour

2. Master-crafted Bolt Pistol

3. Frostfang (Chapter Relic: Melee, S+2, AP3)

4. Belt of Russ

5. Change Insane Reflexes to I+1 on the Charge or a successful Counterattack.

 

Leaving all else the same, while maybe dropping his points down to about the 220 range, these adjustments makes for a a powerful, yet not OP character. I think giving him AP2 would take him straight over the top, especially at Initiative.

 

V

[hendrik]

his insane reflexes are actually kidn of cool that they grant him an invunerable save. (which can't be taken away since it's not wargear by those assisins their ammo)