Tac Squad Heavy Bolter

[corlinjewell]

So, recently, I've been running one of my tactical squads as a 10-man unit in a Rhino.  I usually have them armed with the obligatory missile launcher, but recently, I've considered running the heavy bolter with them.  I know that the heavy bolter is considered the worst heavy choice for tactical squads around here, but I thought it might be more useful in a relatively mobile squad.  I usually like to have the Rhino get close to some threat, pop the guys out, and blast them.  If you're attacking infantry, then I would much rather have three snap heavy bolter shots than one snap krak missile that is overkill.  So, my question is, what is wrong with the heavy bolter in a squad that is relatively mobile (which seems common in most missions).  Note: I am not advocating the heavy bolter in other Tac squad deployments.

[Stickeh]

Maybe I'm in a minority here, but I find that I combat squad my tactical squads in almost every game. Bar the odd occasion, the heavy half of my tactical squad is deployed with targets for their missile launcher (sometimes lascannon) chiefly in mind. The special half commandeer the rhino more often than not, so snap firing is less of a concern. Only time I'd really think about anything else is drop podding tacticals, and even then I'd probably go for a multi melta, as the extra firepower from a heavy bolter is pretty negligible.

[War Angel]

I actually think you might have a good idea here.

[Emperors Immortals]

Ive found heavy bolters to be good in a devestator squad podded with some tacs, or on LandSpeeders, which im happy to see in vogue now.

 

O would , and do, take a MM for mobile tac squads, I also usually pair them with a dread.

[infornography]

I almost never make my heavy weapons in tac squads mobile.  I combat squad and make the advanced weapon and sergeant go mobile leaving the heavy weapon half of the unit to hold down the fort at home.

 

I don't think heavy bolters are a bad choice though.  Since I take Vulkan I generally go multimelta for my free heavy weapon.  Free twin linking for the win.  But HBs can do a lot of damage to foot slogging melee armies and to the former occupants of vehicles after another unit force disembarks them ;-).  Plus they have a compatible target profile to the rest of the bolters in the unit. 

[Leonaides]

Heavy bolter doesn't add much anti infantry capability to a full tac squad, and adds no significant anti tank... The wider threat potential of a missile launcher adds a credible threat that your opponent cannot afford to ignore.

 

That being said, I am partial to a cheap lascanon or multimelta...

[WarriorFish]

My Tacs are almost always moving and already have plenty of anti infantry weaponry so snap firing some heavy bolter rounds isn't going to make much of a difference, but a missile launcher or multimelta provides the capability to take on tougher targets should I need it. As Leonaides said it's also good for making your Tacs a threat to more of your opponent's units as well as your own tactical options.

 

Marines have plenty of weapons to take out infantry, so I think taking anti tank/MC upgrades where you can is generally a good idea - especially for free. My HB Marines haven't seen much use for quite some time :(

[Robert2004]

I like to mix things up myself and will rarely take the same heavy weapons throughout my tactical squads. Usually the free missile launcher and then a heavy bolter but it depends on what your facing. If I play against orcs and during the list building I will include a full heavy bolter devastator squad, its pretty nasty at taking on their swarms. Dreadnaught, tanks and the likes are where the main heavy weapons come from in my lists but hey its your own preference.

[Zombie P]

There is an entirely inefficent and hefty priced unit that can make anybody with less than a 4+ armor save weep...

 

Lysander

10 devs with 4 heavy bolters

Sergeant with storm bolter.

 

Its 440 points of pure rate of accurate fire :o

 

Heavy bolter devs yes, heavy bolter tacs, no. Tactical Squads are tactical, keep them that way.

 

ZP

[corlinjewell]

My Tacs are almost always moving and already have plenty of anti infantry weaponry so snap firing some heavy bolter rounds isn't going to make much of a difference, but a missile launcher or multimelta provides the capability to take on tougher targets should I need it. As Leonaides said it's also good for making your Tacs a threat to more of your opponent's units as well as your own tactical options.

Marines have plenty of weapons to take out infantry, so I think taking anti tank/MC upgrades where you can is generally a good idea - especially for free. My HB Marines haven't seen much use for quite some time

I understand that the ML is more versatile in most instances, but I was referring to a single Tac squad that I would use as a mobile objective-taker. The rest of my Tac squads will be keeping their MLs. I don't like combat-squadding every squad because five-man squads are so easy to take out with high-volumes of fire

[DarkGuard]

Like most I combat squad a lot, so a missile launcher, plasma cannon or lascannon is often the better choice, and the first two are more flexible than the heavy bolter IMO.

 

Your idea has credit corlinjewell, but I don't think it's the best use of a Tactical squad. On the move 3 snap fire heavy bolter shots aren't likely to be as good as a rapid firing bolter, let alone better.

[dswanick]

On the move 3 snap fire heavy bolter shots aren't likely to be as good as a rapid firing bolter, let alone better.

Bolter vs Snap-shot Heavy Bolter

to-hit                1.334    .501

to-wound, t2    1.112    .417

                 t3    .889      .417

                 t4    .667      .334

                 t5    .442      .250

                 t6    .222      .166

                 t7    .222      .083

[Stickeh]

 

 

On the move 3 snap fire heavy bolter shots aren't likely to be as good as a rapid firing bolter, let alone better.

Bolter vs Snap-shot Heavy Bolter

to-hit 1.334 .501

to-wound, t2 1.112 .417

t3 .889 .417

t4 .667 .334

t5 .442 .250

t6 .222 .166

t7 .222 .083

So unless you're dead set on taking the HB for fluff reasons, or are between 24 and 36" all the time (hint: you're not) there really isn't much to be said for it. Maybe we'll see restructuring of heavy weapon costs when we get an update, until then it's pretty redundant.

[Koremu]

So unless you're dead set on taking the HB for fluff reasons, or are between 24 and 36" all the time (hint: you're not) there really isn't much to be said for it. Maybe we'll see restructuring of heavy weapon costs when we get an update, until then it's pretty redundant.

Or you are going to camp in cover, rather than snap-firing.

 

For reference, the Heavy Bolter is better than any of the other Heavy Weapons when snap firing at anything up to T5/4+, simply because it has 3 shots. The weakest is the Heavy Plasma Gun (can't snap-fire at all), with the other 3 being about equal against 4+ infantry.

[Leonaides]

True, but in a 5 turn game with a tac squad in a rhino, you are probably where you want to be by turn 3 (having spent 2 turns in a vehicle moving to target area). so you'll only be snap-firing twice... After that, the ML is a superior weapon system for the combat capability it provides you.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yeah, I don't rate the heavy bolter as a Tac Squad weapon very highly -- which is a shame because I love the Loyalist heavy bolter model -- you just get so much more utility for the same price out of a missile launcher or multi-melta.  It's sad because it's an iconic weapon that sees very little use, even on our tanks.  I want to take them, but there are so many other options that are just better all around.

[Koremu]

I wish they had Salvo. They would be awesome if they had Salvo 3/3 instead of Heavy 3

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I wish that Tac Squads could take the old suspensor for it the Deathwatch Kill Team could take -- becomes Assault 3, but range is cut in half to 18".  That'd help make 'em a sight on the battlefield again!

[WarriorFish]

True, but in a 5 turn game with a tac squad in a rhino, you are probably where you want to be by turn 3 (having spent 2 turns in a vehicle moving to target area). so you'll only be snap-firing twice... After that, the ML is a superior weapon system for the combat capability it provides you.

That and your Rhino probably won't survive past turn 3 too!

 

I hope Tacs get a little something in our new codex in some way. They do well for me as part of a unified fighting force (as Marines should be) but they're always playing second fiddle to another unit and I'd like for them to take the spotlight more. Even if it were something as simple as making all their options viable and worthwhile so none of my Marines gather dust...

[Leonaides]

 

True, but in a 5 turn game with a tac squad in a rhino, you are probably where you want to be by turn 3 (having spent 2 turns in a vehicle moving to target area). so you'll only be snap-firing twice... After that, the ML is a superior weapon system for the combat capability it provides you.

That and your Rhino probably won't survive past turn 3 too!

 

I hope Tacs get a little something in our new codex in some way. They do well for me as part of a unified fighting force (as Marines should be) but they're always playing second fiddle to another unit and I'd like for them to take the spotlight more. Even if it were something as simple as making all their options viable and worthwhile so none of my Marines gather dust...

Have a go at putting just tactical squads in as troops choices, back them up with a couple of tactical termie squads. See how you do. I did the same a year or so ago against DE... Lost a lot of men due to an inabilty to damage a Ravager, but toasted all his transports before he got to move close, then shot and assaulted the infantry remaining. Outshot him and out-assaulted him just with tac marines (ok, being blood angels there was a sang priest kicking around). Need to hold a backfield objective - 2 combat squadded tac heavy weapon teams is 10 men to kill, and a pair of (lascannons on that occasion, with 1 plasmagun) with the other halfs of those tac squads moving together as a single block/supporting each other to take out infantry targets with bolters. 

 

If you are struggling with how to use your tac squads well - make yourself learn to use them.

[corlinjewell]

well, looks like my marines will be keeping their missile launchers.  Thanks for all the replies guys.

[WarriorFish]

I've done the Tactical horde too and enjoyed the fun it brings My Terminators are sadly in for repainting and likely won't be ready for the table again before we get a new codex my current rate...

Anyway, glad you got your answer corlin. It's always good to deliberate on all the options we have

[ChapelXIII]

I've recently been running my tac squad with a heavy bolter and leaving the heavy bolter back with with one combat squad while the other takes a razorback with plasma. I have a devastator squad with 4 missile launchers, and I like being able to throw a few heavy bolter shots out which can chip away at infantry units. 

 

People don't find them too dangerous so they usually get ignored which is fine by me because it lets me keep my scoring units in my back field.