Took the plunge!

[Brother Vidius]

Hey guys! I've not played 40K in years but recently I popped into my local GW for a quick look. Ended up walking out with the Dark Vengeance box! The Chaos marines in the box are fantastic minis! So I've decided to take the plunge and start a Chaos marines army. I'm still undecided on which legion to go with, leaning towards Word Bearers at the moment.

A lot of new minis have been introduced since I last played. I see a lot of flyers being used, are these a must have? I really like the Raptor models as well. Do you think its possible to use these as standard Chaos marines? Their armour is a lot more intricate looking and I think this would look great! Any other suggestions would be great!

[Amalricus]

The Helldrake (flyer thingy) is pretty much a mandatory choice in order to be competitive (two are pretty common in fact). As for the raptors, they are barred by both the drake and the bikers who are very cheap for what they do ( even more so since one of our best HQ setups is Chaos Lord on bike with axe of blind fury). I guess they would make pretty darn awesome "regular" marines, but they aren't cheap for a box of five.

Concerning the DV box, most chaos players use the chosen as squad leaders, since their effectiveness is pretty mediocre considering what they cost.

[Brother Vidius]

Cheers! Yeah I think they'll be spread throughout the basic marines to make them look a bit better. Is the Dark Apostle a decent HQ choice? I'd like to take one to maintain a Word Bearers theme but if they aren't that great I'd maybe consider something else

[bjoluemblem]

Welcome back! If you're not familiar with 6th ed, things can get complicated fast, just stick with it. It's a grand old time. The Dark Apostle is very fluffy for Word Bearers, and even though there are better options in the book, go with it! I'm assuming you grabbed a codex too? The thing with the apostle is that he has an AP4 power mace, while a lord could get a sword or an axe for AP3/AP2. The difference is that a lord kitted similarly runs about 25 points less. I enjoy using the evil chaplain anyway because he is fun, and goes well with the blob of cultists that are from dark vengeance. He spanks sergeants in the challenge mechanic too. The thing with the Apostle is that he is a buff character, so prepare for that. I'd run him with a squad of 20 foot chaos marines. The Heldrake feels like a must take, as he is death on wings for infantry that aren't in terminator armor, and even then he does serious wounds, plus he can Vector Strike! Check out the FAQ on GW's site, and compare the torrent rules with the arc of fire the heldrake has...just nasty. The stars of the codex are the heldrake, obliterators, beatstick HQ's, Plague Marines, and cheap blobs of cultists, in my opinion of course. I'll give you my suggestions as to where to start, grab what you want and go with it! I recommend the following:

 

HQ 1-2 of the following

Apostle

Lord w/mark of something, and a chaos artifact with a purchased invulnerable save. Axe of Blind Fury is cool for Khorne lords.

Sorcerer (unidivided, mastery level 3, pulling off telepathy or biomancy) one of the best psykers in the game, and super fun to use

Daemon Prince maybe, super expensive points wise, but the model is cool. If you get one, model him with a mace. He's a monstrous creature, strikes at I7 or whatever he's at with AP2...which carries into the Black Mace swing if you give it to him. Check your rulebook for flying mostrous creatures and your codex for the Black Mace awesomeness there.

 

Troops

Chaos Marines x10 (Rhino) or 20, Plasma Guns, Champ with Power Axe

Chaos Marines x10 (Rhino) or 20, Plasma Guns or Melta Guns, Champ with Power Axe

Cultists x20

Cultists x10 (reserve to grab objectives late game)

 

Elite-well, meh. Expensive points wise, cult troops unlocked by god-marked lords as troops, so pick something fluffy and fun. Possessed are definitely that. Tool 9 of them up in a land raider with an apostle for giggles.

 

Fast

Heldrake x3. Just kidding :P go with one or two, throw in bikes or a squad of raptors just because they're fun. Spawn, weirdly enough, are actually ok. Beast rules are good, check your rulebook for that.

 

Heavy

Oblits

Havoks with autocannons, 2 S7 AP4 shots are great

Tanks of most any kind are decent, dual Land Raider lists are fun and AV14 is hard to crack.

 

Good luck, and most of all, have fun and play what you want!

[Sception]

Raptors are difficult to use as regular CSMs due to the legs. If you're up for reposing power armor, you should be fine. Backpacks is an issue, ghough, as chosen packs from DV are hard to come by, but older regular csm backpacks don't look nearly as good.

 

raptors as a unit in and of themselves suffer from the competition for fast slots. They're definitely fourth place in their category, after drakes, bikes, and spawn. They're a dual kit, but sadly the warp talons are in fifth place, so no help there. While the heldrake is by far the strongest fast choice (by itself basically makes our faction competitive), the raptors suffer especially from the comparison to bikes, which are very similar in terms of their battlefield role, but are just far better all round for only a few more points apiece.

 

In 6th edition, allies are a pretty big deal, and you'll typically see CSMs paired with daemons, necrons, imperial guard, or even orcs. Whether you ally, and which ally you pick, will have a big influence on what choices are best for you in other categories. Apart from the heldrake, of course, and specifically the heldrake with baleflamer, which you'll almost certainly want one or two of. Some have done well without them, but they're nearly ubiquitous for a reason.

 

You've come in during somewhat of an odd time for CSMs. I mean, there's definitely been worse times. There's been better times too, but there's definitely been worse. But that said, a lot of the more successful 'chaos marine' lists tend not to feature a lot of actual 'chaos marines'. A couple of drakes, some nurgle oblits in heavy, cheap cultists in the troops section, a bunch of your points spent on allies, it's not uncommon for the only 'chaos marine' in a chaos marine army to be the HQ, which probably isn't the kind of thing you signed up for.

 

That said, there are chaos marine units that are alright - small terminator units with combimeltas are still ok, Plague marines are still decent if you take a nurgle lord. Noise marine units are actually alright if you take a slaaneshi lord, at least since a recent FAQ shifted their options around a bit. Regular chaos marine units are lackluster, and the bulk of their options are overpriced, but bog standard bolter bodies aren't terrible at 13 points apiece with a couple plasmaguns in the squad. Bikes, as mentioned above, are actually pretty good, if only because of how arbitrarily low their points cost was set, and are often used as a character escort. Havocs are solid with autocannons or lascannons occupying a defense line with a quad gun or icarus. They can take the anti-air missiles, but they're overpriced. Nurgle oblits are pretty solid, and nurgle mutilators can be alright.

 

On the non-flying vehicle front, rhinos are a mixed bag (see the thread discussing them), but predators with lascannons are solid for the cost, and the fiends are alright, whether you're looking at a mauler fiend or two racing forward with some spawn in a daemon-allied fast assault list, or a forgefiend with hades autocannons putting out some suppressing fire alongside some allied guard tanks (which you'll need if you want to play the armor saturation game well).

 

In HQ there's not a lot of truly stand out options, but there are a lot of decent ones. Khorne Lords with the axe on bike or jugger; or daemon princes with the mace, wings, and power armor; can both lay down a jaw dropping amount of at-init ap2 pain. Nurgle lords, particularly nurgle bike lords with the burning brand, are quite tough and unlock some of our better troops choices (apart from just taking cultists and relying on allies for additional scoring). Ditto Slaaneshi lords, which can mount up on a steed to take a unit of your choice outflanking. Sorcerers, typically undivided lv3, can provide some additional smackdown with biomancy or support with telepathy, even if the god-specific lores range from lackluster (slaanesh, nurgle) to just sad (tzeentch). Warpsmiths can also provide some decent support, whether trudging up the middle with some infantry, a mess of power axe attacks, & a burning brand, or hanging back with your gunline to fix vehicles when he isn't manning your icarus cannon with his BS5. A couple of the special characters are worth a look, particularly huron for his warlord trait, or Typhus for unlocking plague zombies. Abaddon's crazy expensive, and his ability to take chosen as troops is pretty underwhelming considering that chosen are mostly just more expensive chaos marines, but he is very tough and can supply one hell of a beatdown if you're able to get his slow butt into a meaningful combat.

 

If I didn't mention it, I probably don't think it's worth talking about, myself, but there are certainly more experienced & successful players on this forum who can provide other opinions.

[Brother Vidius]

Thanks very much guys! Lots of helpful info in there! I'll be picking up the Codex and a box of marines or Raptors on Tuesday. I'll probably stick with the Apostle as I do like my armies to be themed. Saying that I'll probably need an allied contingent of Daemons. What's the best Daemon units to support a Chaos marine force?

[zyl-]

Before getting basic marines, consider using ebay to buy up the metric tons of chaos chosen sprues that are for sale, and using them as basic marines. You will be limited for poses on the snap-together models, but you could have all the detailed power armor you want for a pretty decent cost.

 

I would say that Slaanesh daemons are hands down the way to go for allies, but I'm looking at it from my own ideals. Slaanesh daemons can move faster and have "rending" for their attacks. Not to mention that their basic troops have more attacks than others. As daemons are generally used as a tide of mindless bodies.. well you get the picture. There are good things to say about all the daemon factions, but since you HAVE to have troops in your allied detatchment, I judge by the troops they can offer me. Double true in a game where the meta has shifted to large squads.

[Sception]

You'll still likely need to pick up basic chaos marine boxes to get the arms and weapons you want - since the chosen guys are full of power axes and fists and lightning claws and such.