Index Astartes: Sons of Tyr

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

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Index Astartes

SONS OF TYR

Wardens of the Traverse

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Battle-Brother Artac Padanis
Sons of Tyr, Seventh War-Company
Battle Honours: Ushok Clearances

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Madrigal

The Sons of Tyr originate from a world deep in the recesses of the Eastern Fringe, at the very edges of the Imperium of Man, within a vast stretch of space simply known as the Traverse. Sparsely populated by humanity, only slightly more than half the Traverse has been probed by the deep-space vessels of the Explorators, and fewer than a third of its sectors are colonised. In the heart of the Traverse lies Gonen Sector, the cornerstone of Imperial activity in the region, and home to the red planet of Madrigal. It is from this mountainous feral world in the northernmost quadrant of Gonen Sector that the Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes known as the Sons of Tyr make their home. From Madrigal, the Sons of Tyr hold dominion over Gonen, and assert themselves as wardens of the Western Traverse, waging war against incursions from the voracious alien inhabitants of the uncharted Eastern Traverse.

The origins of the Sons of Tyr are difficult to pinpoint with clarity. Due to their position at the very edge of known space, it is rare for them to operate for extended periods in the heart of Imperial territories; in fact there is no known sighting of them outside Ultima Segmentum, within which they have presumably dwelled since their inception. Equally difficult is any attempt to unearth previous studies either of the Chapter as it exists in the current millennium, or indeed any studies on the Chapter's history. The sole scholarly work on the Chapter's history is to be found in the writings of Gestumblindi of Vingolf, whose Treatise on the Beliefs and Customs of the Adeptus Astartes (vol.XIV, pp.xivc-xivcvii) attempts a discussion on the Sons of Tyr's origins in light of their observably unusual belief patterns and customs.

It is almost certain the Sons of Tyr were not conceived as a Chapter under the same name by which they now operate. This is given particular credence by the Chapter's veneration of Alaric Tyr, their namesake, who is openly declared to have been 'one of the old Chapter', a saying thought to refer to the Chapter's previous identity. The Chapter's greatest celebration, the Feast of the Warfather, gives praise to Alaric Tyr as the embodiment of the Chapter's ideals: independence, implacable will, wisdom, and sacrifice. The Chapter Master of the Sons of Tyr, who always holds the title of Warfather, bears weaponry and armour said to have been worn by Tyr himself during the period of strife the Sons refer to as 'the Deception'. Gestumblindi points to this enigmatic event - about which the Sons are unanimously unwilling to speak - as further evidence that the Chapter changed names at some point during its history, possibly as a result of an event dire enough to necessitate a reformation of the Chapter's identity. It is evident by analysing shipping logs and Imperial records of newly discovered alien races in the Traverse that the Sons have held dominion in Gonen Sector for almost two thousand years. If it is assumed they operated in Ultima Segmentum two millennia prior in late M39, at which time it is reasonable to assume 'the Deception' took place, then they may be any one of thirteen Chapters which vanished from Imperial records during that period. Of these, the Sons have actually been directly responsible for the destruction of one: the renegade Stone Immortals Chapter, who were brought to battle at the Siege of Bagradas Prime and wiped out in a subterranean war lasting for two years. Gestumblindi points to two more Chapters which bore similar heraldry and colours to the modern-day Sons - the Obsidian Eagles and the War Gods - which disappeared entirely from Imperial records in 751.M39 and 356.M39 respectively. However, Gestumblindi bases his guess purely on aesthetic similarities between the three Chapters and there is no concrete reason to believe either of the aforementioned were in fact the predecessors of the modern-day Sons of Tyr.

In the current day the Sons of Tyr are rarely seen outside of the Traverse. When they are to be found in the multitude of warzones throughout Ultima Segmentum, it is rarely in areas which are not saturated with the front-line agents of either the Inquisition or the Adeptus Mechanicus. Indeed, they have been observed to act in close support of Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator Fleets (cf. Ushok Clearances) and at times as executioners in the service of the Inquisition (cf. Genocide of Maelia). Contrastingly, it is equally apparent that the Chapter is on strikingly poor terms with Ecclesiarchal representatives; the disaster on the shrine world of Arrex Prime is notable for the loss of six regiments of Imperial Guard deployed to protect the shrine-palaces of the Ecclesiarchy from Tyranid assault, a disaster ignored by the Sons of Tyr, who deployed three War-Companies to Arrex Prime's mega-hubs and starports. The escape of seventeen million colonists from Arrex Prime, utilising the spaceports and mega-hubs held by the Sons, is but a footnote in Gestumblindi's account of what he portrays as a disaster without compare for the Ecclesiarchy.

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Veteran Sergeant Kjartan
Sons of Tyr, Seventh War-Company
Survivor of Gilgamesh Prime; Battle Honours: Ushok Clearances, Siege of Nor'korh

In comparison to the main bulk of Adeptus Astartes Chapters, the Sons of Tyr are somewhat unusual. The paucity of their numbers is more likely to be due to the high casualty rates the Chapter endures as a result of its station on the Eastern Fringe, in contact with Ork and Tyranid incursions, and frequently with alien races previously unknown to the Imperium of Man. Yet they appear to have little problem replenishing their losses, and new recruits - drawn solely from Madrigal, from one of the three tribes indigenous to the red world - are arrayed into one of the ten Companies, which rotate every seven years in their dispersal throughout the Traverse and the rest of the Segmentum. The Company stationed on Madrigal for a seven-year period is known as the Hearth-Company; the two Companies stationed elsewhere in Gonen are the Watch-Companies, and are primarily responsible for patrolling the Traverse and defending its denizens from alien incursion. The Watch-Companies and Hearth-Company are the first line of defense for the Traverse, and many of the Chapter's recruits fall in their first tour of duty with the Watch-Companies, fighting desperate battles in the cold depths of space against alien foes previously unbeheld by human eyes. Those who pass their trials in the Watch-Companies are rotated, in time, into the War-Companies. From these seven Companies the Chapter chooses its warriors to go forth into the Segmentum and make war where the Warfather wills it, for at the Warfather's command the War-Companies leave Madrigal and the Traverse for years, sometimes centuries, in obedience to what the Sons call their 'Great Oath'. Sometimes a Company will not return at all; the Fifth War-Company of Baelden, 'the Lost', has not set foot in the Grand Lodge on Madrigal in over seven hundred years, prompting the deployment of the Third War-Company to find its lost brothers and return them to the fold.

Within each War-Company, one hundred Marines make up the totality of the resources a Brother-Captain holds under his command. The command staff of a War-Company are made up by a representative of the Grand Lodge, one of the Warfather's own Myrmidons, an eternally silent warden who seeks to enforce - and some say observe - the edicts of the Brother-Captain. Also present are three members of the Shaman Lodge, those who in other Chapters would be termed Brother-Librarians, who here fill the role of Chaplain and Librarian both. Many a battle-brother's dying wish is to have his anishiist braid severed by the stone knife of a Shaman and returned, one day, to the Valley of the Ancestors on Madrigal. The rest of a War-Company's command is made up of the picked warriors of the Brother-Captain, Marines who can be relied upon to fight at the Captain's side, to lead strike forces in battle, and - if necessary - to replace the Captain himself in an instant should he fall in battle. Independence and mental acuity are greatly valued by the Sons, as two of the traits possessed by Tyr himself, and the role of a Brother-Captain is as much to make leaders of his men as it is to lead them himself.

As a whole, the Chapter makes little use of Assault cadres, preferring the flexibility of Tactical cadres and the consistent reliability of Devastators. For this reason, the Chapter prefers rapid insertion into warzones via drop pod, Thunderhawk and Storm Eagle gunship, allowing the Chapter's warriors to choose their battles and react as necessary to developments once on the ground. Heavy armour is rarely employed by the Chapter; unlike most Astartes Chapters the Sons have a very limited pool of Rhino and Razorback transports, preferring to outfit such Rhino chassis as are available for close-range fire support as Vindicator pattern tanks. Tactical Dreadnought armour is also something of a rarity, although two recent engagements (cf. Minos Devastation and Jarenal Landings) suggest that the Chapter's most veteran warriors, the Warfather's bodyguard of Myrmidons, maintain enough Terminator suits to effect assaults where pure brute force is required.

As befits its positioning on the Eastern Fringe the Chapter has a noted predilection towards engagements with xenotic foes. Its Captains are particularly well-versed in naval warfare, although the Chapter's fleet relies upon stealth and superior intelligence for prosecuting successful campaigns; with a large complement of escort vessels, especially the controversial Nova class frigates, the Chapter is well able to pinpoint serious incursions into the Traverse before they reach Gonen Sector or any of the other inhabited clusters, and to determine where best to fight the xenotic foe before they are aware of the presence of the Adeptus Astartes. Following certain engagements in the western half of Ultima Segmentum, Imperial naval forces have raised suspicions that the Sons' line vessels have access to stealth technology far in advance of mainstream military hardware; inquests into the matter have resulted in little clarification on the matter, with Adeptus Mechanicus representatives apparently uninterested in further elucidation.

Due to their primary role as xenos hunters, the Sons of Tyr have provided a considerable number of warriors to the enigmatic brotherhood of the Deathwatch over the centuries. Of these, most do not return, but those who do often rise to command rank (as befits a survivor of the Deathwatch). Three of the Chapter's Brother-Captains, including the current Warfather, Alric Vanatyr, spent long tours of duty in the Deathwatch, and to this day a portion of the Chapter's greatest warriors are always on leave fighting alongside the black-armoured warriors of that mysterious brotherhood.

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Sergeant Barak

Sons of Tyr, Seventh War-Company

Battle Honours: Orion's World, Clearance of the Void Ravager

Like many other Chapters, the Sons of Tyr keep their beliefs relatively private. However, the Chapter cult is visibly apparent in the battle-gear of each battle-brother, with each squad, or cadre in Chapter terminology, ritually marking their armour with the wing-feathers of a thunder eagle, the greatest of Madrigal's predators, its feathers being displayed in totemic fashion upon the shoulder-guards of each Marine. Similarly, Marines keep a close tally of their confirmed kills, often decorating their armour with trophies torn from the bodies of the enemy. It is clear that the Chapter's cult, like many of the more outlying Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, differs greatly from the Imperial Creed; whether this will one day prove cause for friction, or even conflict, is as yet unclear.

Outwardly, the Sons do not revere the Primarch, nor do they show much appreciation for worship of the Emperor as a divine entity, though he is revered as a patriarchal figure in the genealogical lists of the Chapter - he is the 'Father of Fathers', whose emissaries are the great thunder eagles of Madrigal, swooping predators the size of battle tanks whose claws can cut through steel and scythe through armour and flesh alike. From this beast the Chapter takes its icon, a stylised realisation of the greatest of Madrigal's predators. Three fearsome predators are native to Madrigal, the Three Hunters, from whom the tribes take their names: the thunder eagle, the makwa, or stone bear, whose hide is resistant even to the roar of a bolter, and the wendigo, the beast which some say is possessed of the supernatural ability to cloak itself from mortal vision whilst it stalks its human prey. Much of Madrigal's mythology centres around these three beasts, and though each tribe loses many of its members to the predations of these creatures, the predators are viewed as totemic animals by the tribes. Each tribe lives in a symbiotic relationship of sorts with its predator, ensuring that the predator never spawns in numbers great enough to threaten the tribe's own survival, but never hunting the beast to extinction, as only through constant competition with the three predators are the tribes of Madrigal strong enough to live in communion with the Father of Fathers and provide warriors for the Warriors of the Stars, the Sons of the Warfather.

The mythology of the Three Hunters is very much apparent within the Chapter itself. The greatest of the stone bears of Madrigal are captured every year by Scout squads as their first mission as Sons of Tyr, and brought to the Grand Lodge, the Chapter's fortress atop Mount Maaseti, for enhancement and indoctrination by the Shaman Lodge and the Chapter's Techmarines. These beasts are maintained as both beasts of burden and steeds for the Chapter's mightiest warriors to employ in combat. Neither the thunder eagles nor the wendigo are utilised in this way; indeed, there are those within the Chapter who barely tolerate the continued presence of the wendigo on Madrigal, claiming that the origins of their species lie not in the squalor and degeneracy of the Alien, but the dark and twisted perversions of Warpspawn. Nevertheless, the Shaman Lodge will not permit the extermination of the wendigo, for they claim that by their proximity to such insidious evil the tribes of Madrigal are strengthened in their allegiance to the Warfather and to the Emperor. Even so, those warriors of the Chapter whose ancestral tribe holds the wendigo as its totemic creature are often held in distrust by their battle-brothers, and it is no coincidence that wendigo tribe Marines are often to be found assigned to the same cadres, their Bear and Eagle tribe brothers unwilling to rely upon those who have lived in the shadow of the most malevolent of beasts since the day they were born.

The geneseed of the Sons of Tyr has not manifested any discrepancies or obvious mutations during the period the Chapter has been active in the Traverse. Gestumblindi records that the Chapter is descended from the gene-line of Roboute Guilliman, yet the Chapter is not listed in other records as an Ultramarines successor, and indeed in the sole recorded action in which the Sons fought alongside an Ultramarines successor Chapter - the Novamarines, at the battle of Quondax Sound in 459.M40 - the Sons are recorded as refusing to share war-council with their battle-brothers of the Novamarines. Scholars have suggested that the Chapter's somewhat secretive nature places it as a viable candidate for Dark Angels descent, yet no discernable contact has ever been made between the Chapter and the former First Legion. There is some reason to think that the Chapter may well be an Ultramarines successor, given its relatively close proximity to Macragge, yet outwardly neither Chapter holds any formal relations with the other.

The only truly positive relations the Chapter has been noted to hold with other Astartes are, somewhat strangely, with those who resemble the Chapter least in appearance - the Salamanders. On multiple occasions the Sons have assisted the Salamanders in combat operations in Ultima Segmentum, and after the aforementioned Disaster at Arrex Prime the Sons received a gift of twelve suits of Terminator armour honouring the Chapter's salvation of millions of civilian lives.

No formal battlecry is employed by the Chapter; warriors of the Shaman Lodge lead their brethren in prayer to the Father of Fathers and the spirits of war in the ancient Madrigari tongue before each combat action.

Worlds fall, cities burn, each of us must some day die; but one thing never fades, and that is the glory won by the immortal dead.

• Tarvesh Sinaxis - elements of the Fifth War-Company were ambushed by feral Orks in 790.M41 whilst supporting an Adeptus Mechanicus expeditionary force attempting to secure archeotech; Stone Rhino and Eagle Cadres drew the Orks away from the dig site, drawing them into the Ulduvai Gorge and annihilating them in a bloody melee lasting for hours.

• Hastur's Tears - the name of the settlement on Minos Tertius where a Necrontyr legion engaged forces from the Sixth War-Company, killing Brother-Captain Restan and forcing the Sons of Tyr offworld.

• Gilgamesh Prime - here the Sons of Tyr secured an artifact in 990.M41 believed by Ordo Xenos agents to be of Enslaver origins, before an encroaching Ork Waaagh! necessitated a tactical retreat.

• Siege of Nor'korh - the Fifth and Seventh War-Companies were deployed in 550. M41 to counter a Hrud migration in the Vixes sub-sector. The hive world of Ulash was decimated by xenotic infestation and Nor'korh, the planet's primary hive, left depopulated by an onslaught of Hrud warriors. Whilst the Fifth War-Company wasengaged in the stars above boarding and sabotaging the Burden of Ages, the gigantic space hulk upon which the Hrud entered the sub-sector, the Seventh War-Company breached the walls of Nor'korh and laid waste to the entire city in a battle lasting for six days.

• The Siege of Bagradas Prime in 350.M40 and the subsequent annihilation of the renegade Stone Immortals Chapter is one of the rare events in which the Chapter fielded all seven War-Companies in a single action, under the aegis of an Imperial extermination fleet under Lord Inquisitor Khestral.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Well done. Given the Chapter's rocky relationship with the Ultramarines, I wonder if they're one of the loyalist Chapters suspected of using Traitor gene-seed, as the Blood Ravens and Sons of Antaeus are?

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Thanks for commenting. Actually that's something I'd not even considered. I'd been leaning towards Ultramarines successors with severe daddy issues, thanks to events during the Deception. Traitor geneseed...well, it has the problem of being at once a cliché, and one often badly done, but also an attractive prospect. It'd fit with the extremely vague background of the Chapter and would also fit with the Chapter's tendency towards shamanic ritual in contravention of the Imperial Creed.

 

However, a Chapter can only perform so many misdeeds before the value of its existence comes into question by higher authorities, and the Sons of Tyr are already living on borrowed time, in some respects - the Great Oath they swore to certain Imperial agencies after the Deception was as much an oath of fealty as a plea for their continued survival.

 

I'm aware this may be too vague...hmmm.

[disease]

Great read. Particularly like the idea of the traverse, and would be keen to find out more about the tale of the wendigo and how it influences their beliefs.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Thanks mate. Giving this a little bump - not trying to be cheeky but was hoping for some more feedback, particularly criticism if anyone's got some. Spent a lot of time on this and would value some input!

[Ace Debonair]

-=-=-= I need to just quickly vent some frustration, bear with me for a second. =-=-=-

I loathe the new quote system, because I can't seem to C&C specific points anymore.

Pressing enter will either split the quote box into two separate quotes, or just stick another empty line in a suddenly unbreakable quote box that envelops my replies. Worse, it does so seemingly and inexplicably at random. Whatever vile and capricious creature makes these decisions also clearly hates me, because when I then try to remove that extra space, it deletes the whole freaking quote box instead of just the space. Emperor take and thrice-damn the whole thing! Grrr!

-=-=-=-=-=-=

Right. And I'm calm again.

Let's get this C&C business on the road, shall we?

This is gonna be done the old fashioned Liber way - I'll call out all the bits I think need further editing or expansion. If I don't pick on it, that means I consider it jolly good.

Now I might come across as a little bit stern or blunt in some places, but rest assured, my solitary mission in this post is to take a Chapter I quite like and help it's author iron out any bits that don't, to my eyes, pass muster. I am in no way having a go or picking on you or any of that unsavoury business.

First thing's first though, I love that badge. Very, very cool.

Which brings me to my first bit of C&C; that's a lot of pictures of your marines. One would be enough.

Home world:

It's a bit weird that you start with a very incomplete description of the homeworld rather than the chapter's actual origins section.

Granted, the planet probably was there first, but you don't actually tell us anything other than it's name and location.

Origins:

Hmm. There's no mention of which geneseed the Chapter (probably) descends from, which is a bit off because you later talk about them not praising their Primarch like we should know who you mean.

Organisation:

OK, here's some questions. I can't get the hang of the normal quotes, so I'll highlight the stuff you've written in italics and with speech marks.

"The command staff of a War-Company are made up by a representative of the Grand Lodge, one of the Warfather's own Myrmidons, an eternally silent warden who seeks to enforce - and some say observe - the edicts of the Brother-Captain."

Firstly, why are the Myrmidons silent?

Secondly, who are the Grand Lodge?

Thirdly, (this is just a grammar one) what is so important about the Myrmidon following his Captain's orders that it requires hyphens to break the flow up?

" Many a battle-brother's dying wish is to have his anishiist braid severed by the stone knife of a Shaman and returned, one day, to the Valley of the Ancestors on Madrigal."

Why?

Also, you say you don't favour assault, then have pictures of more marines with swords than guns.

If you don't want to cut down the picture count, I'd at least revise this.

Beliefs:

Regarding the Wendigos, your librarians must have something up with them if they're ok with letting a Chaos-tainted species live on their homeworld.

It might be better to just drop the chaos-taint angle and keep them as wicked-awesome natural predators.

Also I don't get why the Sons of Tyr keep recruiting people they don't feel they can trust?

-=-=-=-=-=

Overall, I really like this chapter. There's only really minor things for me to pick on, too. It's pretty well-developed. I don't usually approve of mystery origins, but the slightly off-beat approach you've got here is interesting enough and doesn't feel like the usual lazy writing that accompanies early history mysteries.

All in all, good stuff, and I hope my nit-picking serves to help improve this chapter further.

[Wulfebane]

Seeing as we are not in the 41st millennium and not yet ignorant of historical references in Earth cultures, when I read your chapter name, I expected a more nordic/viking vibe. While the tribalism is present, the vibe is way more native american to me. Personally, I find this a jarring detachment to the name of Tyr (norse god of justice and law) and would expect anyone else with knowledge of norse mythology to feel the same.

 

This doesn't mean you can't keep the name. There will just be those mindful of reference nuggets like this that will be left scratching their heads. Something you could try to make the references blend better might be to make a 40k-analogous event that references the vikings that sailed around nova scotia and settled (for whatever reason) in new england, predating even Columbus in the exploration of north america.

 

---------

Oh! Name dissuasion aside, I really like this chapter and the tribal vibe you've presented.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

First of all, thanks very much for the replies. This is exactly what I
wanted, on both counts - good honest criticism. I'll deal with Wulfebane's
reply first since it's a singular point before coming to Ace's insightful post.
 

Wulfebane, I feel like you may have replied to one of the
earlier versions of this IA I posted (either you or someone else with a similar
avatar) on the name issue. It comes up at least once in every single IA or
P&M thread I post. Obviously I haven't done my job well enough, because the
arrival of the Sons of Tyr at Madrigal is in fact supposed to be an event
analogous to the arrival of the Norse in Vinland. I see that I should make that
much more apparent. I did have a long section on the history of the Sons prior
to their name change, but it made the entire IA much, much longer and more
convoluted since their identity pre-name change was much more Scandinavian
(hence the Norse naming traditions still apparent in much of the Chapter).

 

With regards specifically to Tyr, he is actually principally the god of war
in the Norse pantheon, a role he arguably shares with Óðinn. Honour and justice
are his secondary attributes, although during Scandinavia's Conversion phase in
the 9th-11th centuries Tyr came to be associated more with law and justice
whilst Óðinn became synonymous with warfare and witchcraft. Needless to say I
prefer Tyr's earlier attributes, at least in the context of writing an Index
Astartes. There are references to Tyr (the god) throughout the Chapter - the
title of Warfather is the most obvious. Óðinn also has several references, but
they're not obvious; e.g. Gestumblindi, the sole scholarly source of input on
the Chapter, is an alternate name for Óðinn in one of his trickster tales, the
current Warfather is one-eyed and referred to as the Wise, etc.
 

 

I guess it's not good that I have to point out the above, and in the last
post I made about the Sons on this forum it was agreed that the 'culture clash'
between the old, Norse-centric Chapter and the new Native American culture of
Madrigal should be made much more apparent. I'll have to rework this.

 

Which leads me to Ace's post. Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed critique. Firstly, I agree with you that it is weird to have so many close combat Marines shown; simply put, I chose this because the only ranged weapon available in the painter (after pistols) is a humble bolter, and I didn't want every single picture to be of a Marine in the same pose with a different paintjob. These pictures are also placeholders for when I can replace them with actual pictures of my own army.

 

Homeworld: yes, it is a little strange I started there. Fair point.

 

Origins: I agree it is confusing to talk about the Primarch without clarifying the Chapter's source of geneseed - very much putting the cart before the horse.

 

Organisation: here are some obvious relics from previous IA efforts. The Myrmidons originally had a large section all to themselves. They were originally an entirely separate Company (in fact they formed an eleventh Company, which I retconned as it broke too much with the Codex, even for this Chapter). They do require further elucidation, especially in terms of their advisory/enforcement role - they are intended to be as much advisors to the Captain as they are agents of the Warfather ensuring his Captains keep in line. None other than the Warfather and the Myrmidon cadres know this, for obvious reasons. This is again linked to the events of the Deception and the fall from grace of the original Chapter. Again, this isn't made clear enough in the actual article!

 

The Grand Lodge is the Chapter fortress on Madrigal where Chapter Command resides.

 

Beliefs: The Wendigo are not Chaos-tainted. If this is how it came over, I need to change that, as in my mind there is a difference between Warp-tainted and (overtly) Chaos-tainted. The dividing line is small, perhaps so much as to be indistinguishable sometimes, but in the case of the Wendigo predators I simply envisaged a bipedal monster which had evolved very basic psychic abilities used for camouflage and distraction.

 

In the same breath the Wendigo tribe are not Chaos-tainted either. Additionally, it's confusing to call them the Wendigo tribe so I'll be renaming them to the Jackal tribe in the next iteration. I had originally intended for the reason behind the distrust with which the Chapter (and the Madrigari tribes) hold the Jackal tribe is due to the fact that the Jackals bear more latent psykers, develop much better hunters and trackers than the other tribes, and actually look different to the other tribes, due to the amount of time they spend in subterranean caverns fighting the Wendigo. Distinction breeds contempt, as they say. Since I was running the SW 'dex, I was going to use Wolf Scouts to represent a portion of Chapter veterans who are exclusively Jackal tribesmen, and have their champions run as Lone Wolves.

 

There is another schism planned for the Chapter's future history and it may well start between the Jackal tribe and the Stone Bear and Thunder Eagle tribes, before spreading over into the Chapter itself. I haven't finalised this yet, but it may be something I want to develop later.

 

 I'll get writing on the redraft, which I think will require some fairly significant changes to clarify the issues raised above. I appreciate the feedback very much - thanks for the input and insight!

[Wulfebane]

To keep from making the IA too long, you could put the myrmidons and madrigal migration in sidebars. In truth, they're not very consequential to the overall IA.

[recon0321]

This has to be one of my top 3 favorite IA's on B&C...great Job I may do a war-company...do the other war companies use different colors?

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Thanks recon, that's very high praise :) I actually haven't got around to fleshing out much past the Seventh, but if you saw some of the latest paintjobs (I'll be posting more in the WIP forum soon) the other War-Companies use a different heraldric pattern on their right shoulderpad. The Seventh just split the right shoulderpad vertically and have the left half deep red and leave the right half bone white.

[recon0321]

Well what about using stegadon scale green for another company...not trying to tell you how to paint the chapter but thought that would tie in well with the background...well whatever you figure out let me know I wanna start a company soon

[CantonWC]

Hello

 

Been meaning to comment for a while.

 

First off I'm pleased that the IA is fairly well written. A lot of Chapter themes and concepts that I'm otherwise not fond of can be made far more palatable if the author at least knows how to write well.

 

 

Obviously I haven't done my job well enough, because the
arrival of the Sons of Tyr at Madrigal is in fact supposed to be an event
analogous to the arrival of the Norse in Vinland.

 

...

 

I guess all of this stuff just flew right over my head.

 

With regards to "Sons of Tyr," I guess at least some people will know Tyr is a Norse god, but I figure it's not a huge problem the way "Sons of Hercules" or "Sons of Hephaestus" would be.

 

With regards to any cultural theme, I would say, keep it light. There are way too many Chapters that basically amount to a carbon copy of "insert real world culture here" with very little in the way of originality.

 

 

Thanks for commenting. Actually that's something I'd not even considered. I'd been leaning towards Ultramarines successors with severe daddy issues, thanks to events during the Deception. Traitor geneseed...well, it has the problem of being at once a cliché, and one often badly done, but also an attractive prospect. It'd fit with the extremely vague background of the Chapter and would also fit with the Chapter's tendency towards shamanic ritual in contravention of the Imperial Creed.

 

However, a Chapter can only perform so many misdeeds before the value of its existence comes into question by higher authorities, and the Sons of Tyr are already living on borrowed time, in some respects - the Great Oath they swore to certain Imperial agencies after the Deception was as much an oath of fealty as a plea for their continued survival.

 

This stuff must have flown over my head too.

 

You don't have to have Traitor gene-seed. Too cliche. I think the Chapter civil war, and being a little vague about it, is fine as it is.

 

One thing though, you only explained what the Great Oath was in your second post, so I was really confused as to what that was since it was only mentioned once in the IA.

 

 

Organisation:

 

Going to echo some of Ace's comments.

 

Who are the Myrmidons, and why do they take an oath of silence?

 

I was confused as to what the Grand Lodge was until you explained it, it sounded like a specialist position like Chaplains or Apothecaries.

 

 

Many a battle-brother's dying wish is to have his anishiist braid severed by the stone knife of a Shaman and returned, one day, to the Valley of the Ancestors on Madrigal.

 

This seems like a pretty interesting cultural practice, but you only mention it once. It should be elaborated and put in Beliefs.

 

Onto Beliefs, you go into great detail on the mythology of the home world, but I'm not sure I understand what the beliefs of the Chapter are, or how the mythology and the totem animals figure into their cult.

 

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I like it so far, again I compliment you for at least knowing how to write well, it goes a long ways toward making IAs more enjoyable to read. It's a good start, but there were a lot of places where things were vague and I didn't really understand what was going on.

[Wulfebane]

Just wanted to voice that I somewhat miss the details behind the Myrmidons, having read about them in an earlier post.

[disease]

points I found most interesting:  the traverse, the myrmidons and the combat doctrine.  

 

The issue with the myrmidons is that they sound remarkably similar to the deathshroud? 

[Disruptor_fe404]

Regarding Traitor gene-seed: I'd counsel against it. As mentioned, it's a cliche (not that I mind cliches). But more importantly, it feels like an easy out. On the other hand, Ultra successors who have a bone to pick with their progenitor legion? Interesting.

 

And I agree that you could touch on the pre-Decption form of the Chapter a little more, since at the moment it's not all that clear (in the Origins section, anyway) that the Sons used to go by a different name, and used to be more Nordic-influenced and not as Native American/First Nation as they are now (incidentally, these are also cool cultural choices, again owing to being few and far between).

 

I almost didn't click on this thread because I thought it was the other one and my updates didn't say anything about the other thread being replied to!

[Ace Debonair]

Which leads me to Ace's post. Thanks for taking the time to make such a detailed critique. Firstly, I agree with you that it is weird to have so many close combat Marines shown; simply put, I chose this because the only ranged weapon available in the painter (after pistols) is a humble bolter, and I didn't want every single picture to be of a Marine in the same pose with a different paintjob. These pictures are also placeholders for when I can replace them with actual pictures of my own army.

Fair enough.

I was just making sure it wasn't an oversight.

Organisation: here are some obvious relics from previous IA efforts. The Myrmidons originally had a large section all to themselves. They were originally an entirely separate Company (in fact they formed an eleventh Company, which I retconned as it broke too much with the Codex, even for this Chapter). They do require further elucidation, especially in terms of their advisory/enforcement role - they are intended to be as much advisors to the Captain as they are agents of the Warfather ensuring his Captains keep in line. None other than the Warfather and the Myrmidon cadres know this, for obvious reasons. This is again linked to the events of the Deception and the fall from grace of the original Chapter. Again, this isn't made clear enough in the actual article!

Sounds interesting! There's certainly plenty of mileage in expanding on this.

But why are they always silent?

The Grand Lodge is the Chapter fortress on Madrigal where Chapter Command resides.

I just spotted it already says that in the IA. Oops!

On the other hand, the Grand Lodge is mentioned off-handedly before you explain what it is, so maybe a slight tweak might benefit the article's flow and stop people looking back in case they missed the explanation.

Beliefs: The Wendigo are not Chaos-tainted. If this is how it came over, I need to change that, as in my mind there is a difference between Warp-tainted and (overtly) Chaos-tainted. The dividing line is small, perhaps so much as to be indistinguishable sometimes, but in the case of the Wendigo predators I simply envisaged a bipedal monster which had evolved very basic psychic abilities used for camouflage and distraction.

Ah, I see. I'd assumed Chaos-taint and warp-taint the same thing, hence my confusion!

I'll get writing on the redraft, which I think will require some fairly significant changes to clarify the issues raised above. I appreciate the feedback very much - thanks for the input and insight!

Happy to be of help!

[Conn Eremon]

I like the whole Norse in the New World feel to this IA. But I'm curious about the Myrmidons or more specifically, your choice of adding a Greek theme.

[Disruptor_fe404]

RE: Wendigo: I highly doubt the Imperium itself makes much distinction between Warp-spawn and Chaos-tainted (except for radical Inquisitors, probably). After all, as animals without the inherent superiority of the human soul, such creatures that use psychic gifts to conceal themselves from prying eyes would make excellent servants of the Archenemy.

 

However, the way I read the passage feels like it's inconclusive one way or another (which is great!), but I feel the actual underlying truth should probably be that they aren't Warp-spawn. If you ever feel the need to go down that road, anyway.

[Conn Eremon]

"Describing the Wendigoes to outsiders invariably leads to claims of the Sons harboring warp-tainted beasts, however these claims have never been substantiated."

 

It sounds a lot better than "Wendigoes are Warp-tainted but not Chaos-tainted."

 

Also provides an in for the Inquisition being all suspicious-like.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Hi all,

 

This is really helpful feedback. I appreciate the input given very much. Not in the country at the moment but will post a full reply when I am, and I'm already rewriting the IA in my head so hopefully will have the next draft up soon. I'll reply to individual points properly when I'm back, there are some really good points raised and they deserve a proper reply.

 

Looking forward to finishing the next draft!

 

Arkhan