Apocalypse Preorders up

[Brother Ambroz]

Because it's really difficult to mix in a couple of the spare shoulderpads or heads that you get with your chaos minis from GW. You know, since they usually give you 4-5 extras of each. Or use GS.

[Sception]

Then you're talking about getting multiple kits anyway. If you're mixing chaos bits to get better looking models, then fine. Everyone can mix space marine bits from whatever kit to get models that look the way they want. I'm not objecting to the use of horus heresy bits if that's what a particular player wants. For me, though, adding horus heresy bits only dilutes the chaos-ness of the models, rather than adding anything, and I'm not the only one for whom FW models are not at all a substitute for GW chaos marine offerings (except in the case of berzerkers and plague marines - and even there the FW kits are conversion bits, not wholesale replacement models).

[Brother Ambroz]

If you're a brand new player, then yes it would be multiple kits or bits from bits sites. If you're not though, most of us have quite a few chaos models laying around for use in something like this. I get what you're saying though, you go for the more mutated sort of look, which yeah then you'd need the raptor/possessed/CSM bits.

[Ammonius]

Oh man! They should release one-click-not-really-a-deal sets called "Bits Box Starters". These would be advertised as an easy way for a starting player to get their hands on bits from their chosen faction so that they can see first hand what kind of options are out there for kitbashing. Y'know, now that bits sales are almost extinct.

[Sception]

To be clear, I'm not at all endorsing the one click deals. Every one of them is at least as expensive as buying the models separately, and at least one of them is us$30 more expensive as a bundle.

[Sception]

If you're a brand new player, then yes it would be multiple kits or bits from bits sites. If you're not though, most of us have quite a few chaos models laying around for use in something like this. I get what you're saying though, you go for the more mutated sort of look, which yeah then you'd need the raptor/possessed/CSM bits.

Yeah, I wasn't objecting to kit bashing, just the idea that horus heresy bits are necessarily ideal for any chaos player doing so. I wish there were FW chaos marine kits I could go to instead of the old plastic chaos marine models - which have not held up as well as their loyalist counterparts in the least, but sadly that's not really an option for me, heresy marks are clean enough that I might as well be using regular plastic space marine bits, and save the hassle of FW resin (which I hear has been somewhat spotty lately).

 

Anyway, I'm still very interested in the Legionnaire formation, even if it's something as simple as 'take a bunch of marine units, they all get vets for free'.

[Sception]

Alright, so I picked up the White Dwarf to glean what I could about formations from the battle report. Specific army lists weren't posted, but here's what I could gather from the forces description:

 

Heldrake Fear Squadron - 3 (+?) heldrakes. May make a free move before the game starts - in the report the chaos player used it to move them onto the board pre-game, vector striking a unit, then move them back off again in the first turn, vector striking another, in order to give himself a turn or two to go after the enemy fortifications before they entered play normally. They also apparently get to invoke their daemonforge rule as often as they like (or possibly must do so every turn? Unclear).

 

Legionnaire Warband - unclear what the composition requirements are, but they aren't exactly as per the one click package. For instance, the chaos army had no raptors or warp talons despite their inclusion in the package, and specifically included a unit of chosen in the formation despite them not appearing in the package. If I had to guess, I'd say the formation consists of 3 or 4+ CSM troops, and 1+ each of CSM HQs, Elites, Fast, and Heavy units, and doesn't restrict much beyond that? Anyway, the entire formation gains fearless and hatred, but only while within 12" of loyalist marines. It's pretty close to what I was hoping for - just free Vets. Slightly better against loyalists, but without the leadership boost against other factions.

 

Otherwise, I haven't really delved much into the issue or battle report to glean anything else. Oh, apparently your warlord in Apocalypse gains additional 'Finest Hour' abilities, akin to super warlord traits. The chaos player's warlord was Typhus, and he invoked his Finest Hour in the first turn, granting his army fearless and feel no pain. Unclear whether it was just for that turn, or an ongoing effect. Also, apparently victory points can be spent during the game to bring destroyed models back onto the board as reinforcements. An interesting mechanic.

 

 

In the end, loyalists won, of course, but it seemed like a pretty interesting game. Lots of stuff got blown up, Khârn chopped down Ezekyle in a challenge, and went daemon prince, only to be caught in an apocalyptic explosion from some dying big thing and killed. Big fortification cannons were cool. The Lords of Skulls were cool, and look better in the darker metallic red hue. The new terrain looks good (if excessively imperial), and unless the points cost is way over the top, I expect the dual quad icarus to become a rather popular choice in regular games of 40k for anti-vehicle duties.

 

 

I remember loving apocalypse back when it first rolled out, and I have to say I'm pretty excited by the new release, in spite of myself. I'll be picking up the new APO book when my local store gets it, along with the templates and asset cards and may even buy my old plagueblade-or-whatever-it-was-called back from the friend I sold it to, who never painted it and broke it slightly, but whatever.

[Sception]

Some more apocalypse rumors rolling in (link, more different link). Highlights include more details on the chaos formations, and legion-specific warmaster traits:

 

Finest Hour

 

Each warlord can use this once per game, it's like a warlord trait but much more pwerful, also for that turn he'll have a 3+ inv save and eternal warrior but if you do lose him in that turn the opponent scores 1 strategic victory point. There's 3 tables to roll on to see what he gets. For Space marines and the chaos ones theres a table with all the different 1st founding chapters, all of them have a different ability which is a really great (it's called Sons of the Primarch instead of the finest hour)

 

Divine Intervention

 

Another table... this one is split depending on the gods or something close for others (hive mind, greater good etc), so the emperor for imperium, gork and mork for orks etc. These events have a trigger component so for example for the imperium, it triggers when you lose half of your army, all units will then gain Furious charge and fearless and effects lasts until his next turn.

 

High Commands: Models in this are treated as 1 unit, examples of this is the phoenix court of khaine where you have the avatar and the 6 phoenix lords in 1 unit, or masters of the chapter where you can have 1 chapter master, 0-1 honour guard, 4-10 captain all in 1 unit (and they cant leave even if they're independent characters). Once per game you also can get another strategic asset per high command. They can also order an all-out attack, which makes a single unit triple it's movement but cannot shoot or tun, but can assault.

 

Psychic Choirs have a special psychic power that they can use and pool all of their warp charge points. Theres a different table instead of perils of the warp if you mess up on this power though, wont spoil everything but lets just say some big daemons can come out...

...

Lords of the Black Crusade,

Lord of the Black Crusade is Abaddon and Khârn, Ahriman, Lucius, Typhus or lords with mark of khorne instead of Khârn etc. High Command Formation. They can all use the finest hour/sons of primarch at the same turn.

The planet killer: once per game you can have Abaddon's flagship start bombarding so from now on you start using the Magma Storm Unnatural Disaster table. You are the master of disaster as long as abaddon is alive. Basically there's a table you roll on and it affects everybody, but if you're the master of disaster you're the one that begins applying the results. so if you get a result to do D3 blasts and you roll a 3, the master of disaster places the 1st one, then your opponent, then the master, so yoou have that advantage when you roll an odd number.

 

The Lost and The Damned

Lost and the Damned: 1 Dark Apostle, 6+ chaos cultist units. Gain inflitrate. After each break you can return a single unit of cultists. All cultists in the formation have feel no pain and furious charge.

 

Legionnaire Warband

Legionnaire Warband: When in close cobat with any loyal space marine they re-roll to hit every round of combat. And if they're within 12" of loyal space marines they get fearless. That's the only rule.

It seems based on these rumors that I have been preparing for the 'lords of the black crusade' formation in the wrong manner. I have been working on converted chaos marine characters that could be used as counts-as versions of the various CSM special characters. But if the formation must be fielded together as a single unit, and generic marked characters can be used in place of the named characters, than what I should probably have been working on is a set of four terminator HQs, so that they would function together better as a unit, and possibly deploy together via deep strike, since I don't much fancy having to march or drive such an expensive and pivotal formation up the board with all the D weapons and such that you can find on an APO board.

 

 

I've already got a terminator axe sorcerer that I was thinking of converting to run as a counts as typhus (although maybe I'll make him the tzeentch guy, and do something else for typhus? Maybe use his actual model?), so that would be three new terminator HQs.... wonder if any of my left over terminator models are fancy enough to count as an HQ with a bit of work? Or maybe I should save up for the FW Zhufor model? Hm....

[Xenith]

The best part of the apoc preorders are the battlecannon defense towers that are regular 40k legal.

 

Those will probably be the only things I get, at some point for my IW.

[Sception]

They seem pretty quality, as does the pair quad icarus fortification, depending on how the points work out. Though it might be bad news for chaos marine players who currently rely on the heldrake.

[nurglez]

I'm looking forward to the two turrets too, especially as they can fit a quad icarus lascannon on instead (while they don't come with it, should be easy to convert) and thus provide some nicer anti air firepower then the quad gun :D

[Brother Ambroz]

Yeah those things will take down flyers much more reliably than before...we'll have to be more careful with our drakes. Where are the rules for the new fortifications....the new apoc book?

[Sception]

The APO book has rules to use them specifically in APO. Supposedly the models come packaged with rules to use them in regular 40k. We won't have word on whether they're reasonably costed in regular games until people start getting them.

[Xenith]

They seem pretty quality, as does the pair quad icarus fortification, depending on how the points work out. Though it might be bad news for chaos marine players who currently rely on the heldrake.

Christmas Dinner lists were only ever going to become invalidated with time, anyway. Anytime armies have come up using multiple of the same unit, GW have nerfed them in the next codex incarnation, only it seems this time, they are constantly adjusting the rock paper scissors aspect of the game by releasing new units with stuff.

[The Nephilim]

 

They seem pretty quality, as does the pair quad icarus fortification, depending on how the points work out. Though it might be bad news for chaos marine players who currently rely on the heldrake.

Christmas Dinner lists were only ever going to become invalidated with time, anyway. Anytime armies have come up using multiple of the same unit, GW have nerfed them in the next codex incarnation, only it seems this time, they are constantly adjusting the rock paper scissors aspect of the game by releasing new units with stuff.

I like it better than having to wait for a whole new codex.

[Brother Ambroz]

Nerfed every addition? Tell that to MoN oblits!

[Vesper]

Sons of the Primarchs stuff is pretty cool too. You guys should check it out.

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/6540/g6am.jpg

[HJL]

wow, the word bearers one is amazing!

[Ammonius]

WOW!

 

They are really pulling out the stops to encourage the purchases necessary to do the big BIG games.

 

Also, if everything we get is like the chaos-aligned entries on that chart, Apocalypse might feel like Chaos: The Apology :)

[Brother Ambroz]

Still one big stopper for me that's holding me back.....the almighty pricetag!

[Brother Aiwass]

how dissapointing is the trait of Curze!

[Vesper]

wow, the word bearers one is amazing!

Indeed.

Quite satisfied with the Black Legion one too.

how dissapointing is the trait of Curze!

Let's face it, it was insanely predictable it would be something around the crappy rule that is Fear.

[Sception]

The Night Lords one should have negated fearless, ATSKNF, and Stubborn on enemy models within the radius as well. Or at the very least made all enemies vulnerable to fear regardless of special rules that would otherwise make them immune. In fact, since APO is informal by nature, I'd highly recommend Night Lords players put that forward as a house rule. One turn of vulnerability to fear won't break the game. Also,bthe death guard one should have improved the FNP on models that already had it. It's really disappointing that the SotP bonus for the legion most known for plague marines doesn't actually do anything for plague marines. The slaaneshi one at least provides a better FNP value than the slaaneshi icon grants so it doesn't feel wasted for units that took the banner. Another case where house rules might be in order.

 

Other than those two I'm pretty happy, though. A little confused by the 'lords of the black crusade' formation, though. Will all of the benefits apply to any chaos units within the radius, or will you have to specify which unit is from which legion? And if you choose to replace the cult characters with marked HQs as is apparently allowed, can you specify which legion those characters are from, or do they have to be from the cult legions? Because I would love to get in on that Word Bearers action, especially if you have to specify which of your units are from which legions, since they'd only benefit from one of the BL/DG/WE/EC abilities, making them somewhat redundant.

 

I have to say, if I were a Night Lords or Death Guard player I'd be somewhat disappointed by this, especially for Night Lords, but as a Black Legionnaire I'm pretty happy.

[Vesper]

Speaking of the Black Legion, do all units within 12" pick the same rule out of the few they have access to, or can they all get different ones ?

[Sception]

The way I read it, you pick one rule when you use the ability, and all of the units in range gain that one ability. It is nebulous, though, and obviously I'd prefer the other interpretation.