The Dreaming Host - Battles

[Tenebris]

Greetings fellow Slaaneshi, with the summer season in full swing came the tournament season and I plan to play in most of the events in my local gameclub.

 

My basic list is, or to better say was:

 

Chaos Lord

• Mark of Slaanesh
• Chaos Bike
• Aura of Dark Glory
• Power Weapon
• Burning Brand of Skalathrax
• Melta Bombs

Chaos Sorcerer

• Mark of Slaanesh
• Mastery 2
• Terminator Armor
• Melta Bombs

Herald of Slaanesh

• Locus of Beguilement
• Greater Reward
• Mastery 1

Chaos Terminators

• Combiplasma (Aspiring Champion)
• 2x Combiplasma 
• 2x Power Axe
• Chainfist

Noise Marines

• Blastmaster

Noise Marines

• Blastmaster

Noise Marines

• Blastmaster

Noise Marines

• Blastmaster

Daemonettes of Slaanesh

• Alluress
• Lesser Reward
• 10x Daemonettes (total 20)

Chaos Bikers

• 2x Melta Gun
• Power Axe
• Melta Bombs
• Gift of Mutation

Helldake

• Baleflamer

Forgefiend

• Ectoplasma Cannon
• 2x Hades Autocannon

Maulerfiend

• Magma Coils

 

Now my impression was that the list above was fairly balanced and able to take upon most opponents but I was proven wrong. I faced the three most dire lists for my army to compete with and I was on the way to face the fourth.

 

Here it is how it went. The first game I was pitted against a fairly balanced list with traitor guard and Tzeentch terminators. The ace in my opponent's hand was his battery of artillery, namely two Griffons and one Colossus which pounded my poor army from range, and combined with four Chimeras bearing metla gun veterans and command squads I was in big trouble. The cherry on top was the short edge deployment and my opponent outgunned me in number of guns and range.

 

The first clash was quite onesided, his terminator contended the relic thus I was hard pressed to dislodge them and my daemonettes, my answer to just the case, were blasted apart by turn two by his artillery. My Noise Marines struggled to keep the Chimeras at bay and were picked squad by squad by his lascannons and precise Griffon strikes.

 

In the end my army was wiped out by turn three, the only thing flying around was my Helldrake in reserves since it exited the board...now lets move on.

 

 

My second game was against the full might of a techmarine army. The opponent fielded three Ironclad dreadnoughts in drop pods and two standard ones in heavy support. The mission was Big Guns Never Tire and it was a disaster for my poor Noise Marines. By turn two I got his dreadnoughts in my Noise Marine ranks and due to my Fearless I was unable to fail the morale check due to the rule Our Weapons are Useless...so I was forced to fight against AV 13. By turn four his Thunderfire killed most of my deamonettes and was slowly picking on my lone Noise Marine squad, the only one left out of melee. By turn five my terminators were able to clear his tactical squads from an objective but they perished when two plasma cannons fire rained upon them. It was again a wipeout. My only answer, the Maulerfiend and the Forgefiend were killed by turn three.

 

 

Last it was a nighmarish battle when I have seen 21 Deathwing Terminators drop on my head and whose fire slaughtered my poor daemonettes down to seven in the first turn of DW strike. From than on I was hard pressed to keep some fire upon the terminators, my Forgefiend accounted here for several kills and my Maulerfiend too but once my walkers were done the only thing that remained were my Noise Marines, again...they lasted for two turns but that was that. Without my troops I was unable to capture any objectives or score some kills for secondary points.

 

Now the whole tournament was a shock to me, my Biker Lord was killed in every game by turn three, unable to use his Brand on anything. My terminators rarely lasted more than two turns and my fiends were killed by enemy fire quite quickly. The only units worth their points were actually the Noise Marines who despite loosing every time forced my adversary to kill them one by one.

 

So what have I learned...

 

Well first and foremost I need more anti armor but that is not the actual crux. The gaming board in my club are very dense with terrain and scenic elements, sometimes bordering with Cities of War landscape and it is very hard to draw clear lines of sight. Such a terrain benefits armies like IG, I exploited that much in past, but it is very tough for my army setup which requires some room to operate.

 

Second my Daemonettes drew insane amounts of firepower upon them. It was a cruel thing to see them die to the last in mere two turns. Only once my Herald made it into combat and yes they killed almost an entire veteran squad but it was a terrible sight see them slaughtered every time. Now I plan to deep strike them next but again the problem is the density of terrain, which allows for terminators to deploy and even that with problems but it is utterly hostile for a deep strike of 20 models at once. 

 

Third, the fiends are good but they struggle. In some games they make their points back with ease while in others die in a turn. The Forgefiend somehow helped me to stem the enemy tide of bodies but it was hard pressed. 

 

Fourth, Bikers are not so good, they die in a very brutal way almost as soon as they are on board and since my  Lord is in there they get a lot of attention. I love the Burning Brand but I am considering dropping it for some serious firepower somewhere else. 

 

 

Now I already hear you scream Obliterators, but truth be told I think the problem lies in my army setup to begin with. Now with all due respect, Obliterators are fine but they are not such gamechangers. I think I lack staying power and most of the lists present on the tournament were quite hardcore ones. Thanks Slaanesh I was not pitted against a list that spawned Hormagaunts by the dozen since it would be another sound defeat, and there were no Necrons this time.

 

So please if you have read thus far, what would you suggest to change with my list. I still am and will be a Slaanesh purist so no other Marks are allowed but I think with some small changes I can get a better hold upon my opponents.

[kdruthless]

Perhaps some rhinos for your noise marines? to allow rapid redeployment. And maybe some obliterators too.

 

You could also swap out the combi plasma on your terminators for combi-meltas. And field some more bikes to hide your lord in, two isn't really enough. Keep em cheap though: they're essentially extra wounds for your lord in order to guarantee his survival

[Sepsis the Unclean]

Personally I would drop the sorceror for more daemonettes. This gives you more bodies (wounds) on the table, which forces your opponent to split fire or leave one squad alone. Starting the daemonettes in cover may also help for durability. I am also fond of tri las predators for anti armour.

[Brother Ambroz]

Alright just reading through this (was a good read) I can see quite a few things. Your list isn't bad but it's definitely not optimal. All of your units are sort of all over the place. So where to start....

 

Bikers - Die to fast? You've only got 3 + the lord right? This unit I would highly recommend upgrading to at least 5 bikers and then the lord. Possibly giving them MoS and the banner of excess.

 

Terminators + Sorceror - Not sure what the whole point of these guys is man. You've got AP 2 in your termies but the Sorc is MoS. You're going to want to go after 2+ with your termies, but your sorc would want to debuff units with his slanneshi powers and enhance the power of the BMs (so he'd be going after 3+ units). See the issue there? I'd recommend doing something different with this. If nothing else just remove the sorceror.

 

Fiends - While you probably have had some luck with these guys in the past, I'd recommend either going with one or the other. A single mauler will die very quickly, even if it has ranged support in the form of a forgefiend. I'd consider going with either 2 maulers, 2 forgefiends or the previous two + their opposite. Another problem for you was you brought these guys with no other armor. Yeah they're AV 12 with the daemon stuff but as the only two pieces on the board they're NOT going to last long. You need some saturation.

 

Tactics - Hmm can't say much about the 1st game, sounds like he was just rolling pretty darn well. For the other games, seems like it would've been a good idea for you to castle up. I understand that it would be kinda difficult for you since really all you had was the two walkers but in situations like that (especially with the DW), it would've been a good idea to hide your nettes in the safest possible area. Might be a good idea to invest in a couple rhinos for this sort of situation and for armor saturation, even if you're not going to transport anything at all. Anyway hope this helps.

[Tenebris]

The sorcerer is in the list since I love psychic powers and the discipline of Slaanesh is quite good. Combine it with telepathy and you get quite a nasty debuffer to trot around in terminator armor. The terminators on other hand come in stock to deal with 2+, with a power axe and combiplasma on two and a reserve chainfist (I think this one gets bailed out). 

 

I would not agree that the army is all over the place, the Noise Marines are my solid ranged troops and so far they did not falter in this role, my Daemonettes are my melee answer to most threats excluding vehicles. The rest is the lord bodyguard and a Helldrake. Now I think that the core is solid but I find myself struggling with the heavy support slot.

 

Now my idea of changes would be:

 

- CCW/Bolt Pistol for the other Noise Marines

- Melta Bombs all across the army

- dispose of the Mastery 1 on the Herald

- make two squads of daemonettes, in deep strike...

- dispose of the Burning Brand and the Aura, cheap and cheerful

- dispose of the Forgefiend

- add two squads of two Obliterators

- rethink the terminator squad with the sorcerer (could use some help here)

[Brother Ambroz]

Hey you asked for advice. Those aren't what I was referring to being all over though. The bikes are a very good unit, you just need a few more I think to make them effective. The other things, sorc + termies and mauler/forgefiend were the things I was referring to.

 

Sorcerors aren't bad that's for sure but in that unit is what doesn't make sense. Did you get what I meant about the differences in targets? One good option would be to make a sorceror on a bike to go with the bikers. Then you could still keep your termicide unit and there wouldn't be any problems with target priorities.

 

From what I've read (haven't actually used them, most of my info on these guys is from Bonzi) nettes are actually faster if they run than if they DS, plus they are safer than plopping down and getting shot at after a DS.

 

A couple MoN oblits could do very well, it certainly would've helped against all the ironclads and DW, but I think you still would've had a few problems. What was your setup like during these games? Did you try to castle up or group your units together behind something?

[Tenebris]

No worries. I always cling to cover, even as a power armor player since it is always beneficial. The problem with the boards in my gameclub is that they have very tall buildings thus you "can" get an excellent line of sight but you are exposed to the enemy if you stick too much behind those high walls and cherry on top, I need a squad or two to run forward in the last few turns thus I usually keep two squads on lower levels. My deployment is usually quite clustered, I want my units to support each other, be it with fire or melee and in a certain way the board setup emphasizes that. 

 

The thing is that in the last two games I got enemy units in melee by turn two, negating my advantage with range and firepower that the Noise Marines provide. In short the two lists were tailored to engage the enemy ranks asap thus forcing ranged armies like mine in a perilous situation. While I have no problems if my Daemonettes get shot up, I still want some of them safe to form a proper assault. 

 

On the sorcerer, sure a biker sorcerer would be good too but this means that I will have a "deathstar" unit that will get a lot of attention and should it die by turn three I have lost all those points. A terminator sorcerer imo is a good delivery system for those nasty debuffs or a telepathy bomb where you need them. I consider him like a heavy gun for my terminators, but it seems that I am wrong. Perhaps a force axe sorcerer with a cheap Mastery 1 (Telepathy) would suffice, providing a chance to pop an unit, and an additional force axe and some wounds and discipline points...much to think of.

[Brother Ambroz]

It sounds like you're playing more Cities of Death (or whatever that book is called) than regular 40k. Sounds fun (haven't played one before) but sort of like another game entirely. One thing though, how were the dreads engaging your NM if the NM were higher up in the buildings?

 

If they go after your biker deathstar, that leaves your nettes free, which you can then use to punish them severely! Also, this bike unit is pretty darn tough by itself, especially if you give them IoE or if your sorceror gets some decent biomancy rolls.

 

Also, I think you might be underestimating MoN oblits. I usually use 6 each game and they're always rockstars. My opponent always throws tons of fire at them and they survive almost everything. They're able to dish out some wicket punishment too. Not sure how well they would've done vs deathwing, but they would've done very well against the ironclad assault.

 

Edit: I've got a TDA sorceror with a force axe too that I'd love to use but unfortunately I just can't find any useful way to put him into my lists. Apart from creating a terminator deathstar, but those never really seem to be worth their points.

[Tenebris]

In that game my half had a tall building where I was able only to place three marines on top while the rest and another squad were on ground level, while the other two squads were located in a bunker ruin, with two sides open and a wall toward my adversary to hide behind. I short the dreadnoughts charged the squads in my bunker and the other squad on ground level. The only squad left unmolested was the one on top of the building, which was aptly fired upon by the enemy Thunderfire. 

[Phytoon]

From the sound of your reports, your local meta has lots of armor that you need to deal with. The maulerfiend may be one of your best options for those dreadnoughts, but not against that artillery. Of course, anything with lascannons can take down artillery, just so long as you can draw a sight line. The tough part is that the artillery doesn't need sight to hit you. However, he still can't shoot at you if you're locked in combat, so try to take advantage of that with your bikes. You also get a wicked jink save, so try and keep them moving until you have to shoot or charge. The thing I've found that keeps happening to the bikes is people will try to focus them just because my Lord is with them. Therefore, if you can keep them out of sight, the enemy will likely waste movement going after them.

 

As for the terminators, I don't really know what to suggest. If you don't want to run obliterators, you don't have to. Just keep in mind that terminators are really good anti-infantry units, but unless you load them up with power/chain fists, they don't have much to deal with heavy vehicle armor. Conversely, Oblits have an answer for everything, but are very costly, and you'd probably want to give them Mark of Nurgle, but you've already said you want to keep a Slaanesh theme going.

[The Nephilim]

I understand being a purist, I really do. I'm one too, however, with our codex there is no real benefit to it outside of that satisfyingly smug feeling you get when you crush someone with your purist list. That said, you're playing competitively in a tournament and then asking for help. First thing, I have to side with Tanith on multiple points.

 

One: More bikers for your lord.

Two: Ditch the termies and put your sorc on a bike.

Three: More bikers for your sorc. With two bike squads, you can run flanking and pincher maneuvers.

Four: Ditch fiends for obliterators. MoN while not purist, is survivable. You can fluff explain it as oblits on PCP.

 

Again, playing competitively while trying to play a pure MoS list is commendable, but not practical.

[Tenebris]

I have ordered three more Obliterators, thus I should rock the board with three squads of two. Now this alone is around 500 points but I hope it is worth it. I am not that sure about more bikers, I have so far seven of them available and I am not that convinced to invest more money in my army since it has already costed me around 600 Eur...so I try to keep it grounded. The Obliterators are always welcome, they are indeed great units but I really wanted to field the fiends.

 

So far I have available:

 

- 10x Terminators

- Terminator Lord and Sorcerer

- three more bikers

- one squad of marines with CCW/BP

- 3x Obliterators

[Brother Ambroz]

Give the bikes a chance with a little larger units and you should get a better view of bikers. They're expensive for sure, that's why I don't own any myself yet.

 

Fiends are a cool unit but you really have to build a list around them in a competitive environment for them to work.

[kdruthless]

I know that this is probably a heretical suggestion to a pure slaaneshi player, but if you don't want to buy more bikes, the Mark of Nurgle might give smaller units more survivability. The only wrinkle there is that I cant remember if a marked lord can join units with the mark of another God 

[Brother Ambroz]

He doesn't take any regular CSM units to give MoN to and a marked character can't join a squad with another mark.

[kdruthless]

My point was that the bikers could be given MoN, but its a moot point anyway as the lord cannot join them. In that case, I'd echo the sentiment that you need some more bodies riding up there with your lord

[Brother Ambroz]

He does however have the option to take an Icon of Excess for some nice FnP buffs alongside the T5 and jink saves.

[Phytoon]

The icon is very nice, true, but it can be a huge point investment, especially considering that Tenebris hasn't had the best of luck with his bikes as of yet. For right now, just try adding more bodies to the pool and see if they can redeem themselves in your eyes before you dedicate a huge restructuring to them.

 

As for the fiends, they certainly look amazing. Again, I've never played with them myself, but that BS3 can be a real killer, especially against some heavier armor where every shot with the hades cannon counts. Against AV14, you need a six to glance with that thing, so if you only get six of your twelve shots to hit, that can spell doom for you. The maulerfiend (IMO) sounds like a better way to deal with dreadnoughts and land raiders, since you can take the fight to them, but that front armor 12 can be pretty fragile too. But if you can punch out the landraider before it fills you up with lasers, you come out way ahead. And since tanks can't fight back in assault phase, you're almost guaranteed to get some of the tendril attacks to happen as well.

[Sepsis the Unclean]

For me the icon of excess is a must for Slaaneshi bikers. As in my last game the icon saved me 5 wounds over two turns against a S6 Ap3 baleflamer helldrake, which both jink and our power armour are rendered useless against.