Hellios Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 So, I have a problem thanks to house rules. I don't want to argue about ti being legal or not. At one of the groups I'm going to it is for now. It comes down to this. Deathwing units can take any Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport (It could be argued that this means those on page 104), but the group ruled that it applied to FW Land Raiders as well so a guy could take LR Prometheus as a dedicated transport. I don't have a problem with that. He was also allowed to upgrade it to a Deathwing vehicle for the appropriate points cost. Also cool. Now I expect the house rules will be modified (but they have a slight time lag), and the local :cuss decided that this meant he could do it with a Land Raider Achilles... Which can't even transport the unit it is a dedicated transport for... Anyway I have game against him soon and I'm think I'll be having a tough time... It will be a game in the 1,500pts-2000pts region. TL;DR. I have to face a 4hp AV14 vehicle with a 4++ save (Dark Angels energy shield thingy), immune to melta, lance, has a -1 to rolls against it on the damage table and he can make me re-roll damage table rolls. Now my best bet might be to ignore the raider and play the mission, but I hate jerks like this, and I want to rub his smug face into the dirt. I have access to most armies in the game (so I can take allies of most kinds). I have around 20,000pts of various marines. So while I may have to run my Dark Angels vindicator in a Black Templar list if I want three vindicators... I can do that. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 You had me at "three Vindicators". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Well thats just stupid... what else does he run because you dont want to throw too many points to killing a vehicle and not have enough to deal with the rest of his army. And have you seen how he plays it? In the back field using just the TFC or in your face using its toughness to survive. looking at that you will want a libby with nulzone, 3 vindicators, ordnance s10 (but the -1 means a flat roll) and maybe lysander for his s10 ap 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 I can't be certain what he will take but the Land Raider + Terminator squad + HQ with generator is probably around 750pts (I don't want to look it up right now). If he takes takes a DA SC that makes terminators troops he still needs another troops choice... If he doesn't he needs too troops choices. I imagine he will go with a DW force... and I imagine he will try and use anything he thinks he can abuse. He has most FW stuff. In terms of damage I would say the Ceastus is even worse than this... He is just being annoying, and he isn't a great player. I've only seem him in two games so far. One was against a casual guard player... Who has a decent list and was able to significant damage to the rest of the army but couldn't shift the LR. The other was against a DE player... who cried and regretted not having any haywire grenades I'm confident I can beat him. The only way he will have a chance is on KPs; he may have so few that I need to table him. I just want to trash his toy (while winning)... Because people like him need to be punished The nullzone librarian is a good idea. The Vindicators will then be more effective against the raider (before I take the guy with the shield generator out) and any terminators he has. Do you think it is worth taking GK allies for a vindicator Vindicare assassin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 the shield guy is prob inside the landraider (or should be) so no luck on that, a vindicare would go to town on it but he is a glass model himself. And I agree people like that are bad for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Any chance of getting some kind of speedy MC who can smash it? S10 with rerolls is pretty brutal to heavy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huginn Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Any chance of getting some kind of speedy MC who can smash it? S10 with rerolls is pretty brutal to heavy armor. Mephiston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 IAW the most recent FAQ, if the model with the Power Field Generator is embarked on the transport, then the 4++ save only applies to other models also embarked on the transport and not the transport itself. So he would have to put an HQ on a bike to drive along side. I was thinking of using the same combination one day as it's pretty nasty, but you're looking at a lot of points for a tough Land Raider with some Multi-Meltas and a TFC. Personally I would never try to pass off an Achilles as a Deathwing Vehicle simply because it doesn't have the capacity to carry a Deathwing squad! I say fight fire with fire. Drop a Dreadnought (perhaps of the Ironclad, Chaplain, or Siege variety) in a Lucius Pattern drop pod and assault the Land Raider - or the model with the PFG - on turn 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Then pod in 2 ironclads with a chainfist and maybe get something to kill the power field guy. lots of points to take out 1 unit... but the pest way to kill it would be a wraith knight XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedes Nex Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I fail to see how the Achilles can be taken as a dedicated transport when it isn't even a transport just because it's a Land STC. That's like taking a Predator as a DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 land raiders are DTs for terminator squads, so by extension its one as well. Its bad logic but thats what it is for his meta. Hmm maybe use a vortex grenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 This is a rules question on RAW. Read as written states: DA codex page...blah Deathwing Command squad,Knights and Terminators have the same option " The unit may select a Land Raider of any type as dedicated transport (page 104) " Since Achilles is not on page 104- it's not possible to field it as a dedicated transport for Deathwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montuhotep Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Yep, my argument too. Equally, the Transport Cap for an Achilles is only five - ergo, it can't hold a regular-sized Termie squad in it anyway. And if he tries getting around that by putting just his character in it, point out that characters cannot take Dedicated Transports...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 As I said. This was a house rule by the group to allow another DW player to take a Land Raider Prometheus as a dedicated transport. Which I would say in a pure DW army isn't broken by any stretch... I would say it is better than a LR Crusader, but it isn't affected by dakka poles. Then another guy who is known for trying to ruin the game decided to abuse the house rule. In time the house rule will be fixed, but it normally takes at least a month. This group has a number of people who run old lists (or house approved updated versions of old lists), so it needs to be flexible with the rules. I run a Kroot Mercenary army from time to time. Another guy has a Genestealer cult list. Anyway Thanks for all of your help. ---EDIT--- I'm playing the game tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Lascannons and Vindicators. A shame fast melta won't cut it. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mince on toast Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 is the LR immune to just melta ? as a sisters player id run a nice full squad of repentia at it and chop it up into nice little pieces then die horribly to return fire do you have access to chainfist models like termies or dreads? pounding it flat and chopping it up can be fun and not what they expect but i would make a army built to murder the rest of his army rather than spend to much time chasing that crazy tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 If he wants to be a cheese-monkey and run that, I'd grab a Necron Lord with a Warscythe in a Command Barge, a squad of Necron warriors and some Scarabs as Allies and watch as his precious Achilles gets either glanced to death by gauss fire or eaten by the Scarabs, the Scythe hits at S7 AP1 with Armourbane (2D6 AP) too for added killy goodness. That is if tailoring is allowed. But then again, I'd insist upon it if he wanted to run broken forgeworld units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 One question that hasn't yet been asked: Why does he want to take the Achilles as a Dedicated Transport? I'm assuming its because he needs to keep his other HS slots free....but if he's playing Deathwing there's very little chance of him using the HS slots as he's going to be spending so much on his terminators.... As has been said above, the Achilles can't transport a DW squad, and the Power Field Generator doesn't work if it is inside a vehicle, so it is actually utterly useless as a Deathwing Transport.... On the other hand, with a Techmarine and a couple of servitors inside....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 One question that hasn't yet been asked: Why does he want to take the Achilles as a Dedicated Transport? Death Wing Assault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 And why would Deathwing Assault have any impact on a Dedicated Transport Land Raider? It doesn't have "the Deathwing Assault rule and Terminator Armour" itself, and they are the requirements for any unit performing a Deathwing Assault. Therefore, the Land Raider can never itself perform a Deathwing Assault regardless of whether it's a Dedicated Transport or not. So I'm not sure what you mean by the answer "Death Wing Assault" - - - - - The only reason for taking it as a Dedicated Transport is to free up a 3rd Heavy Support slot. (Or maybe to avoid it becoming a potential kill point in "Big Guns Never Tire", but that is very situational) It's not like Deathwing have Infiltrate or Scout (which would affect a dedicated transport) either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That should have ended with a question mark. Sorry about that. I was not sure why someone would need to game the system like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The ability to tack 'Deathwing Vehcile' onto it's already obnoxious rules? Can't remember if you can purchase that upgrade on normal HS bought vehicles or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 More units on the board means he can put more Deathwing squads into Deathwing assault, right? Then again, it being a dedicated transport makes zero difference for that... Maybe he really does use all 3 HS slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 I got fairly lucky in the early game, and that made it an easy win for me in the end. I destroyed it on turn 2. I penned it, he failed his invulnerable save, thanks to nullzone, and I rolled 2x 6s for damage (DW vehicle). What I had in my army made the DW squads fairly easy to kill... and then he was so outnumbered/gunned that I had no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Best way to deal with cheesemongers right there... Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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