alexsalpi Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Hello brothers, Im returning from a 3 year absence, so everything has changed a bit, i've Been looking some of the new lists and it seems like nobody uses blood claws any more, can somebody guide me on this please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 There is nothing to guide you on - nobody has used Blood Claws since the 5e codex hit the shelves years ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 It's not so much that blood claws are terrible. They're ok. It's just that grey hunters are quite a lot better. Even in close combat, grey hunters are in some ways better than blood claws (thanks to the wolf standard and WS4). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 GH= 15pts, BS/WS 4, 3 weapons, up to 2 specials per squad. BCs= 15 pts, BS/WS 3, 2 weapons, 1 special unless you take a huge squad. So... why would you want BCs outside of fluff? Especially with 6th ed punishing you for multi-charging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Blood claws are probably the second worst designed unit in the game in point costs and options, only behind Eldar Howling Banshees They are supposed to be nearly fallen great warriors of Fenris... With WS 3???? Dropping his BS to 3 is sufficient to represent the raw recruit character of warriors more prone to HtH than shooting with a bolter. About options. How the hell the Iron Priest give plasma or melta guns to pups without the hability to use it? I would only give them flamers and 1 for every 5 man. I think for 15 points/mini with WS 4 and a flamer free for every five man you have a unit decent for HtH and not overpowered. Sadly the fluff of Space Wolves are very bad designed in the 5ª ed codex. They fixed the problem with Rune priest and Long Fangs but they kill Blood Claws. And the ridiculous thing of not flyers???!?!?! Anyway, if you are going to use Blood Claws, you could use a 15 man footslogging, two flamers with a Wolf priest and saga of the hunter and optional wolf guard. Infiltrate them 18" away of your enemy. With average dice, you should be assaulting in your turn two if you can survive, in the worst case, the two turns of shooting of your enemy. You will have a bullet magnet of 335 points. I'm not sure if it's worth enough without mention you'll have broken the oath of your character saga. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Anyway, if you are going to use Blood Claws, you could use a 15 man footslogging, two flamers with a Wolf priest and saga of the hunter and optional wolf guard. Infiltrate them 18" away of your enemy. With average dice, you should be assaulting in your turn two if you can survive, in the worst case, the two turns of shooting of your enemy. Saga of the Hunter grants Outflank and Stealth, NOT Infiltrate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 argg! you're right wulfebane. Not infiltrate but outflank (not a good option, since you couldn't assault until turn 4 or even 5 with bad luck) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 argg! you're right wulfebane. Not infiltrate but outflank (not a good option, since you couldn't assault until turn 4 or even 5 with bad luck) You could still potentially assault on turn 3 if you arrive on 2, or counter-assault on turn 2 if your opponent is brazen enough... but yes, ultimately it's a waste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 How the hell are Blood Claws the nearly fallen warriors of Fenris? They are wet behind the ears, newly enhanced aspirants that can barely control the new changes their bodies have been put through. They are lucky to not be slobbering idiots in a catatonic state; Reference Blood Claw subject: Arez. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 It's not that BCs are so bad. Grey Hunters are just so good. And with Hunters being cheap for what they do, and BC being expensive for what they do, you'll always take the Hunters over them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I mean warriors of Fenris tribesmen, of course. They are skilled hand to hand fighters, I think that they should have more than WS3. Although they downed to WS3 in 3º edition, in 2º ed both hunters and claws had WS5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You can't compare the WS scale between 2e and later editions; the mechanic for close combat changed so drastically that the numbers have no meaning. It's be like complaining the the hull armor value of a Land Raider dropped from 25 in 2e to a paltry 14 in 3e and beyond - wow, they really nerfed them, didn't they? V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You know, I think Weapon Skill 3 fits them. They're so reckless, it should be displayed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3406594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hmmm ... Does Lukas make them worth having a single unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3407010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes, you can't compare WS between editions, but take account in 2ed both Hunters and Claws have WS5, meaning they are equally skilled. The real issue is we have to pay 15 points for a HtH specialist that actually isn't a specialist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3407013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hmmm ... Does Lukas make them worth having a single unit? He makes 'em worse. Yes, you can't compare WS between editions, but take account in 2ed both Hunters and Claws have WS5, meaning they are equally skilled. The real issue is we have to pay 15 points for a HtH specialist that actually isn't a specialist. They used to be, when multiple fists in a squad and Stormcaller was still a thing. But times change. The compromise unit some people have been using, a handful of Claws in a Rhino with a WG and a Priest to create a dedicated close combat unit that's been going has been nerfed out of existence, thanks to being unable to assault out of a Rhino. And Land Raiders just aren't worth it for a close combat unit that isn't composed of 'specialists'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3407015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apahllo Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hello brothers, Im returning from a 3 year absence, so everything has changed a bit, i've Been looking some of the new lists and it seems like nobody uses blood claws any more, can somebody guide me on this please?Blood claws are awesome, don't let people tell you otherwise. Unless you plan on going to a tournament, they are truly a fun unit to field for their wrath is mighty. People are really afraid to face them, and they really should be! Yes they are expensive but really they are worth using in any game (just have a basic comprehension of tactical warfare and they will stomp face and apply great amounts of pressure). Getting 50+ "preferred enemy-space marine" attacks with a wolfpriest, is something that really gets the blood flowing and shows people what the wolves can really do!!! They sure aren't interchangeable with grey hunter but neither are vanilla marines.................... I'm not saying they are good or bad because I don't think any units are actually good or bad, they just have their purpose and most people aren't able see anything aside from winning through the strong arm and beyond the preconception of good and bad units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/277623-blood-claws/#findComment-3407051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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