Assault Marines

[Garath]

   Hi guys - I was painting up tactical  squad and glanced over the codex while painting . Noticed an interesting thing about Assault Marines which hasn't been talked about here (to my knowledge)

 

  Assault Marines in a Drop pod or Rhino.

 

  We've all seen how they have gotten cheaper with the new codex - but the real deal is dropping the jump packs for a free transport.

 

 Option 1- Drop pod

 

   Let's step back for a bit- Tau codex, Eldar codex - and new ones that will surely arrive will be sporting a cheap,shooty unit that supports the rest of the army  (like Pathfinders or Marker light units).

 

 

 Especially if we are playing an objectives scenario- where first blood VP might tip the game either way.

 

 

 5 marines, 2 flamers Veteran Sarge with combi flamer/melta (power weapon or power fist optional ).  Around 110 pts!!!   The drop pod is free!!!   Sure, we pay for the jump packs - but they cost 15 pts for 5 marines.

  A drop pod is double that price- naked- and we can add a Deathwind launcher for free!

 

  Talk about force multiplying - I get a drop pod costing over 50 pts for 15 if taken with a small assault squad.

 

   If I'm playing against Tau, and he fields a markerlight unit (they are T3 ) , this unit can kill them straight away- not only granting me first blood,but also reducing the number of markerlights available .

   That might prove vital in the long run.

 

  Same goes for any lightly armored unit that depends on cover for protection. 

 

 

 

  Option 2.  Rhino

 

  Squad setup is same as above - but the Sarge might be packing  a combi melta .  Rhino is useful in so many ways- blocking los to important units,tank shocking people so they end up bunched up for those flamers.

  And carrying a Hunter killer missile.  As long as it's free- why not?  It has a searchlight so if I really need to kill a vehicle on turn one- first the rhino does it's thing - uses searchlight and HKM .

 Then the rest of the army joins in.

 

 

 What do you guys think?

 

   

[facmanpob]

  A drop pod is double that price- naked- and we can add a Deathwind launcher for free!

Why would you be able to get a Deathwind launcher for free?

[march10k]

Did you not notice that the interceptor rule lets the tau (your primary example, and they have a lot of units with interceptor) blow the living crap out of your five assault marines as soon as they arrive? As in...at the end of your movement phase...after they get out of the drop pod, but before they shoot?

 

And the rhino...terrible idea no matter who you're facing. It will die on turn one in every single game...the only difference is that if you go first, it'll strand your non-jumping jumpers in the center of the board instead of inside your deployment zone.

 

Jumpers are actually a decent unit, they cost the same as tactical marines now. Ten jumpers with two flamers and a power sword costs ten points more than a ten man tactical squad with plasma cannon, plasma gun, and power sword. As long as you don't expect them to kill nob bikers, they're really pretty good....as long as they have their jump packs.

[Master Avoghai]

Assault squads may be used as you suggest but suffer from the competition with other FA choices : RW bikes, black knights, speeders...

 

The only list where I see a point is a full pod (or at least pod-heavy). The fact that you'll offer several targets in the same time may also protect the passengers because as march10k pointed out, playing this unit alone against tau is maybe the worst thing to do...

[Garath]

 March 10k- agreed on interceptor.

 

  But it could be avoided with very careful placement- as the units using interceptor still need to have LOS to shoot.  Providing I'm playing on a table that isn't too bold with terrain 5 marines cannot be THAT hard to hide.

 

  Against a "smart opponent" -an analogy used all too much- this will be hard to pull off.  

 

 This unit requires care and it will pay off- it would be wrong to assume that the opposition will spot right away what this unit's purpose is. Even if they do- they will be reluctant to spread out.

 

  This can work to my advantage- with templates (like Whirlwinds,plasma cannons etc)

[Master Avoghai]

 

But it could be avoided with very careful placement- as the units using interceptor still need to have LOS to shoot.  Providing I'm playing on a table that isn't too bold with terrain 5 marines cannot be THAT hard to hide

Except that you lose all the benefits from drop pod.

 

You talk about DSing the unit right on the enemy lines to use 2/3 flamers templates the turn you arrive. It means that you will be very close AND in LoS.

If you "hide them" then it means that you're not in range and out of LoS, Hence you won't be able to use your flamers that turn and that you'll leave your opponent move his units to avoid them. Moreover, since it's jump packslesss marines, you won't profit from the mobility the following turns.

 

You HAVE to use this squad the turn they arrive, that's why I was saying that it's a useful squad only in multiple pods army where your opponent will have to shoot his targets and maybe will prefer to target your command squad with 4 plasma guns... ;)

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

^{I agree with the Master (always wanted to say that). Anyway multiple pods seems the best way to get this to work. In my opinion of course. The other thing if you really want assured destruction you could take a Command Squad with Five flamers. This allows for some to die in case they do interceptor you. Of course no free pod and not quite as cheap but still very effective. And if you do hold in reserve I bet five flamer templates would probably fry a five man Termi Squad. They can only make so many saves after all. Unless you have my friends luck in which case death and destruction hold no fear for your marines because you only roll a 6 to save.........I really hate this guy sometimes. Anyway I agree that it is a cheap squad however Master's point still stands. The jump packs are too good you drop down five with a Combi Flamer Sgt. Fry what you need to and then redeploy (move) via the jump packs somewhere else. At least that's how I see Assault squads anyway.}  

[facmanpob]

And if you do hold in reserve I bet five flamer templates would probably fry a five man Termi Squad.

Actually if you math-hammer it out.....

5 templates, positioned correctly will get you 25 hits.....S4 vs T4 will give you 12-13 wounds.....2+ armour save will give you 2 dead termies.....

of course, who ever trusted math-hammer?

[march10k]

Disciple of Caliban Sgt, on 05 Jul 2013 - 02:20, said:

^{I bet five flamer templates would probably fry a five man Termi Squad. They can only make so many saves after all.}

I'll take that bet! Even if you assume that you'll be able to place all five flamer templates where they cover all five termies (good luck with that. Pull it off, and the first pint's on me!), that's 25 hits. Which equals 12 wounds, and only two dead terminators (on average, but you did say "probably") More likely, you won't be able to generate the maximum of five hits, and only one termie dies. 25 S4 hits is not that scary to terminators...it's even less scary when you're doing it from within charge range.

 

You want to torrent my boys, you gotta think bigger...like FRFSRF from two blobs of 50 guardsmen at close range...that's 300 shots!!! 150 hits!!! 50 wounds!!! 8 blown saves...which reliably kills 5 termies, lol. Maybe one blob of guardsmen could do it...they'd average four dead termies, so five is not out of the question...but neither is three. But the beauty is that the 50 bubbas cost the same as the terminator squad, and I don't think that the 1-2 surviving termies want to get stuck in with 50 (!!!) GEQs.

 

Of course, that blob of 50 would be a cheap lunch for terminators stepping off of the ramp of a crusader. Two hurribolters and a TLAC will rip a hole in them first, along with a heavy flamer. That will trigger a morale test. If they pass it, they get charged by an intact squad of terminators for fifteen more rounds of pain (generally ten kills), for another morale check. They do get to hit back...with maybe 25 S3 attacks...12 hits...4 wounds...maybe one kill.

 

So it all depends on who gets the drop on who...but with your drop podding five flamer command squad? It's 1-2 dead termies and five dead command squad every time. Plus any character attached to the command squad gets squished, too.

 

/edit/ Doh! Ninja'ed!

[Master Avoghai]

I agree with the Master (always wanted to say that).

And I've always wanted to hear that :D

 

The other thing if you really want assured destruction you could take a Command Squad with Five flamers. This allows for some to die in case they do interceptor you.

Actually I prefer a good placement lik this

 

_____DP_____

___F____F____

_M___M___M_

 

TARGET UNIT

 

this leaves room to place the 2 templates between 2 marines in the front and you still have 3 marines to absorb the interception.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Eh. So I guess I had the wrong idea with the Termi's. Still you can kill quite a bit of a squad with Five flamers. And few things will actually want to charge into 5 D3 hits.

[Garath]

I agree with the Master (always wanted to say that).

And I've always wanted to hear that

>The other thing if you really want assured destruction you could take a Command Squad with Five flamers. This allows for some to die in case they do interceptor you.

Actually I prefer a good placement lik this

_____DP_____

___F____F____

_M___M___M_

TARGET UNIT

this leaves room to place the 2 templates between 2 marines in the front and you still have 3 marines to absorb the interception.

I was thinking along these lines.

Thing with interceptor, holding out of LOS to those units is not THAT hard- unless they all castle up.

Drop pod on a flank, use movement to get behind terrain near the unit about to be flamed and use THEIR cover to hide from interceptor unit(s).

The other solution is to just take some more guys in the squad.

All I care is I get first blood, and he doesn't in 5 out of 6 scenarios . The idea is futile in KP missions as this concept is indeed 2 cheap KP.

[march10k]

 

 

 

 

Actually I prefer a good placement lik this

 

_____DP_____

___F____F____

_M___M___M_

 

TARGET UNIT

 

this leaves room to place the 2 templates between 2 marines in the front and you still have 3 marines to absorb the interception.

 

 

The only problem there is that your 8" template is now a 6-7" template...how much that matters depends on the situation, of course, but anything that shortens the range of a flamer makes me think twice!  That's why I like assault marines with flamers.  You can often get those snap-fire-absorbers within 2-3" of the enemy, meaning that the flame templates get max coverage without being the first to die.  On foot...it's a lot harder to have your cake and eat it, too.

[The Milkman Of Baal]

If all you want from these guys is 1st blood why not swap flames for meltas and go fry some of his back field vehicles like longstrike, god I hate that bright blue $!*#