Is our book just a 'one trick pony'?

[march10k]

Try this on for size and tell me if RWBoD is the only viable list:

 

HQ: 

 

Librarian with prescience, PFG, infravisor (joins devastators)

 

Troops:

 

Tactical Squad:  ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Tactical Squad:  ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Tactical Squad:  ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Tactical Squad:  ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Fast Attack:

 

Assault Squad: eight marines, two flamers, meltabombs

 

Assault Squad: nine marines, two flamers, meltabombs

 

Heavy Support:

 

Devastators:  ten marines, four lascannons

 

Whirlwind

 

Whirlwind

 

under 1500 points

 

Now...that's a green tide you can be proud of.

[Barzyn]

Like everyone else is saying find the build that works for you. i'm running the guys Dw build but i improvised it to my liking, its the same thing he runs but i interchange the land raider crusaders with regular land raiders depending if the opponent is vehicle heavy. Land Raiders make good targets to shoots at, so they will prolly ignore my troops. I'm eager to try this list out but its not all painted and its not all in my finger tips yet in order to play so patience is a virtue lol. An all deathwing list against an all chaos space marine army would be very devastating due to the fact everything has prefered enemy (including vehicles if you take the deathwing vehicle upgrade) and a squad of deathwing knights against a unit of chaos space marines is just devastating due to the fact they get prefered enemy and that their wpns have bane of the traitor on it. There's alot of chaos space marine players where i play so the deathwing list seems the way to go for me. Try different lists out and see what you works. Its not always gonna work 100% of the time but at least you will have an idea what works against what type of opponent your playing though.

[Master Avoghai]

Try this on for size and tell me if RWBoD is the only viable list:

 

HQ:

 

Librarian with prescience, PFG, infravisor (joins devastators)

 

Troops:

 

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

 

Fast Attack:

 

Assault Squad: eight marines, two flamers, meltabombs

 

Assault Squad: nine marines, two flamers, meltabombs

 

Heavy Support:

 

Devastators: ten marines, four lascannons

 

Whirlwind

 

Whirlwind

 

under 1500 points

 

Now...that's a green tide you can be proud of.

Damn march10k this is very tempting... I usually play at 1750/1850pts hence it leaves room for a tech in pod with one of the squad being of flamers.

 

Maybe I'd break the green-only theme by adding a squad of RWBK... ;-)

[Aegnor]

I'm finding a mostly Deathwing army, with a couple of Ravenwing squads a fun, workable list. Putting a dreadnought in a drop pod with locator beacon, and multi-melta alpha-striking his biggest nasty, dropping Belial in with a DW squad with a heavy flamer for some precision twin linker template action. Ravenwing with fast, cheapish melta zooming around messing up stuff. LS Typhoons zooming around loosing volleys of missiles.

 

I've never actually tried the BoD. Just doesn't suit how I want to play my DAs.

[Morticon]

Im positively envious with the variety and efficacy the DA dex brings to the game.

I dont believe for a second that there is only one build. 

That being said, at present and without allies, DA suffer a bit with anti-air -maybe the Firestorm changes that though.

 

Anti-air aside, there are loads of effective options available to you. Id throw out what most people say online if they discount the dex, and take a look at what combos will work in your area because every time Ive played around with the DA dex by itself its been really, really solid.  

[elphilo]

Tiger, I just read what you posted on Dakka and I'd have to agree with what everyone is saying here and there. That guy seemed like a WAAC player. And the fact that he had no idea what one of the strongest builds in our codex is, makes him a bad WAAC player Now that you know what he is like, you now know to avoid him.

Your list is far from the "beardy" Ravenwing SoD list that people talk about. Mainly because you're not just spamming the hell out of Ravenwing Assault Squads to try and dakka everything to death.

Try this on for size and tell me if RWBoD is the only viable list:

HQ:

Librarian with prescience, PFG, infravisor (joins devastators)

Troops:

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword

Fast Attack:

Assault Squad: eight marines, two flamers, meltabombs

Assault Squad: nine marines, two flamers, meltabombs

Heavy Support:

Devastators: ten marines, four lascannons

Whirlwind

Whirlwind

under 1500 points

Now...that's a green tide you can be proud of.

Man, every list you create I want to run. You need to stop that

[jeremy1391]

You want fluffy, fun and powerful? Give this list a go!

 

Librarian 130

ML2, power field generator, force sword, bolt pistol

 

Librarian 95

ML1, power field generator, force sword, bolt pistol

 

Command squad 180

Standard of devastation, x4 bolter, apothecary with chainsword

 

Deathwing terminators 245 assault cannon, x1 chainfist

 

Deathwing terminators 235

Heavy flamer, x1 chainfist

 

Tactical squad (10) 155

Plasma cannon,x9 bolters

 

Tactical squad (10) 155

Plasma cannon,x9 bolters

 

Tactical squad (10) 155

Plasma cannon,x9 bolters

 

Tactical squad (10) 155

Plasma cannon,x9 bolters

 

Whirlwind 65

Multiple missile launcher

 

Predator 140

Twin lascannon, sponson lascannon

 

Predator 140

Twin lascannon, sponson lascannon

 

1850 on the nose!

 

Castle these bad boys up so you get a lovely 4++ for almost everyone! Remember with the PFG bubble it's units within 3" not models so if your tactical squad has one guy within 3" the whole squad benefits!

 

Deploy as such

 

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/jeremy1391/A76ABE08-4474-468F-A6E0-0DB944E4FCAA-7889-000005BAF47A3420_zps79820214.jpg

 

The circles around the librarian denote his bubble and you can join him to the front or back squad.

[Onisuzume]

Remember with the PFG bubble it's units within 3" not models so if your tactical squad has one guy within 3" the whole squad benefits!

Erm... you're wrong, actually.

PFG is all models within the area, friendly and enemy.

The april FAQ on gw.com doesn't change it either.

[shabbadoo]

after my worse game of 40k I ever had, some guy walked up and said "DA really only have one build." when he saw I brought a RWBoD list. is this true, guys?

No.  the individual in question is a simpleton. :P

[jeremy1391]

Wow power field nerf went deeper than I thought.... No problem, drop a powerfield librarian and take an aegis defense line, problem solved!

[Cactus]

That's not a power field nerf, it was 'models in range' from day one.

[march10k]

I usually play at 1750/1850pts hence it leaves room for a tech in pod with one of the squad being of flamers.

Maybe I'd break the green-only theme by adding a squad of RWBK... ;-)

Heh...for 1750, I'd probably throw in some DWAing DWK (and a ninth jumper for the smaller squad). Nothing keeps the enemy assaulters off of a gunline like a rock-hard melee unit in their backfield.

Man, every list you create I want to run. You need to stop that

And every time you say so, I want to sig the quote. You stop

[Tiger9gamer]

Wow, these lists are awesome, but I'm pretty poor (my company is on crusade?) and Don't have that many marines to work with...

Although here is a list of most of the stuff I have:

 

Sammuel

Azreal (Dark Vengance)

Captain w/ Plasma pistol and power sword

 

Emperor's champion (use him as PA squad champ for Lulz)</p>

Librarian from Dark Vengance

Metal librarian  w/ o arm or back pack (IDK where it's from... maybe Thousand suns?) </p>

Terminator librarian

 

Chaplain in terminator armor w/ Mace of redemption and Crozius

Chaplain with Jump pack

Interrigator chaplain w/ crozius and plasma pistol

 

x12 bikes (2 flamers, one plasma rifle, one power sword)

x6 black knights (or command squad with banner

x2 MM attack bikes

x2 land speeder typhoons

 

 

x1 land raider crusader/redeemer

x2 Vindicators

x4 Rhinos (or can make one las pred and have the bits for typhoon)

 

x1 Dread with 2 autocannon arms

 

x30 tact marines (x2 plasma rifles, x2 melta, x1 flamer, x1 heavy bolter, x1 Plasma cannon)

x5 assault marines/command squad

x11 terminators (all tactical, have plasma cannon and assault cannon)

x5 Deathwing knights

 

Aegis defence line (guns used for dread, stand for whirlwind)

 

 

annnnnd I think that's it

[Master Avoghai]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I usually play at 1750/1850pts hence it leaves room for a tech in pod with one of the squad being of flamers.

 

Maybe I'd break the green-only theme by adding a squad of RWBK... ;-)

 

 

Heh...for 1750, I'd probably throw in some DWAing DWK (and a ninth jumper for the smaller squad).  Nothing keeps the enemy assaulters off of a gunline like a rock-hard melee unit in their backfield. 

Well a DPoded Tactical full or flamers + a unit of 5 bikes with T5 save 3+ hammer of Wrath + 3A S5 rending is also something the opponent needs to consider in its backfield... ;-)

[Tanhausen]

Nice concept (I've been tinkering for a 60+ tactical bodies at 1850 but don't find a build I really like): comments in the list

HQ: 

Librarian with prescience, PFG, infravisor (joins devastators) <- since he's with the devs, I'll comment there.

Troops:

 

4 x Tactical Squad:  ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword <- nice and flexible...but will have problems in games with +1 objectives (4/6) due to lack of mobility. The only solution I can think of is either putting 1 squad in a pod or getting them rhinos...

 

Fast Attack:

 

Assault Squad: eight marines, two flamers, meltabombs

Assault Squad: nine marines, two flamers, meltabombs <- love these guys, haven't played them in 5th or 6th...but for their cost (400 points?) I think they lack the punch of terminators/RWBK...though they do have saturation.

 

Heavy Support:

 

Devastators:  ten marines, four lascannons <- Is the idea to usually split the squad? So the libby will protect both units with the field but only target 1 with the power? Sounds a bit iffy to me...

 

2 x Whirlwind <- love them (no matter how much hate they get due to having low AV)

under 1500 points

 

Now...that's a green tide you can be proud of.

 

Besides the mobility (which I think is quite a handycap for the list), I struggle to see how will they handle:

 

- 1-2 fliers. Don't need to be flier spam...but how do you deal with 2 dragons/Vendettas/Dakkajets/Storm Ravens? the 4 lascanons seem not enough IMO

 

- dedicated CC units. Be it a couple of zerker units, a big terminator unit, some of the big new guys (eldar, tau, whatnot)...I don't really see who can speedbump them or actually handle them properly!

 

Thanks for throwing out the idea :)

[jeremy1391]

Green tide lists saturate the board with models, yea they lack dedicated specialists but lets say a big 10 man terminator squad plops into your backfield 4 tac squads should be able to shoot them to pieces especially with plasma cannons and plasma guns on each squad! Against dedicated CC guys shot them shoot them shoot them! Even without the SOD a 10 man tac with a plas gun and cannon weapon are putting 16 bolter shots 2 plasma shots and a small blast, and unless the deep striking terminators decided to run instead of shoot they are going to be tightly packed together.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I would like to also throw out the humble Jump Pack Assault squad. If you don't have the bikes but want a good quick reaction force they do fairly decent for their points now. Don't expect them to wipe up a bunch of Terminators but for a good speed bump they are perfect. Or for attacking an opponents charging unit like say a Tac Squad in a Rhino rushing up to your objective. Don't feel like shooting it with your tac squad because of higher priority target? One Assault squad on the charge will own that tac squad especially if it is isolated. Added to all of this I have found very few people actually respect an Assault squad so mine usually will go unmolested until suddenly they are rolling up a flank of Power Armor foes while my other "scary" units take the brunt of it. Makes for a fun time when you opponent shakes their head and claims they should have paid more attention to the assault squad.

 

PS. Tiger I just saw what you actually own. I'm not sure if the 5 man Assault squad is with or without Jump Packs but I also recommend never take less than 10 if your points allow. A five man Suicide flamer squad might be worth it otherwise you need the bodies for the attacks as well as the extra wounds to make them viable. Good luck my friend and let us know what you come up with and what works for you.

 

I do agree with everyone else the individual stating our single use Codex is either a troll or just a Net Guru who looks at his computer and learns the meaning of life and everything in it. Don't forget people with Drop pod Wolves still own tournies so sometimes its good to throw in something that very few people can counter because of the local meta. Will you get owned by certain builds? Yeah.................a Pure Deathwing vs. Horde Orks can be murder depending on the player..........but if you find what the Hardcore guys are bringing and bring something they can't counter well then the look on their faces is priceless. Sometimes their antics are fun too. I had one throw an absolute stomping fit when I tabled him turn 4 because prior to our new Dex "Dark Angels can't do power armour marines at all" (his quote). His luck wasn't great and mine was pretty good but still he didn't take kindly to it. After that I stopped playing him because he literally through a fit stomping and yelling to the point I packed up and left. The store owner uninvited him after a bit.......

 

Very long rambling to say simply yes we have some uber power builds with BoD and Black Knights and a few DW builds but we can do well with some creative list building and lots of practice.

 

DoC

[Tanhausen]

 Even without the SOD a 10 man tac with a plas gun and cannon weapon are putting 16 bolter shots 2 plasma shots and a small blast, and unless the deep striking terminators decided to run instead of shoot they are going to be tightly packed together.

 

8 bolter tacticals, 1 BP/CS sarge and a PC tactical: actually did a bit of quick hammer and it works out something like 0,9 dead terminators from the tacticals in rapid fire and another 0,7 from the PC (assuming they hit 1 one terminator every single time...compensating scatter, gets hot, whatnot).

 

So say you turn 4 of these squads towards those 10 terminators...you're gonna kill half of them (6,5 actually. Next turn they multiassault 2 tactical units (0,25 dead terminators) and those 3 terminators get either tarpitted for 2 full assault phases or directly wipe you out.

 

As a big DW fan and player, I dread saturation because we all know that we fall to buckets of dice. But lets remember these are you scoring options! They should be safe and warm, in a cozy balance chair knitting banners whilst capturing objectives!

 

And TBH, I'm more worried about some huge beast (Princes, Eldar titan, something like that)...or other high saturation units (fiends of whatever is their name, the slaanesh random attack things).

 

Obviously no list is bullet proof...but at least I'd like to have 1 tool for each possible opponent...not just a hammer for them all :)

[Tiger9gamer]

Yea, my assault marines don't have jump packs (they where supposed to be siege assault marines from IA10, but I never got a second pack. Also, switched to DA.) now they are just PA vets for a command squad.

[march10k]

Nice concept (I've been tinkering for a 60+ tactical bodies at 1850 but don't find a build I really like): comments in the list

HQ:

Librarian with prescience, PFG, infravisor (joins devastators) <- since he's with the devs, I'll comment there.

Troops:

4 x Tactical Squad: ten marines, plasma gun, plasma cannon, power sword <- nice and flexible...but will have problems in games with +1 objectives (4/6) due to lack of mobility. The only solution I can think of is either putting 1 squad in a pod or getting them rhinos... Having a plasma cannon doesn't disallow movement, it just adds opportunity cost. And a running squad is only marginally slower than a rhino. I wouldn't say "no" to a rhino, but generally, you should be able to deploy within striking distance of an objective, and be able to shoot for 3-4 turns before maneuvering to claim the OBJ.

Fast Attack:

Assault Squad: eight marines, two flamers, meltabombs

Assault Squad: nine marines, two flamers, meltabombs <- love these guys, haven't played them in 5th or 6th...but for their cost (400 points?) I think they lack the punch of terminators/RWBK...though they do have saturation. 400 points? Not even close. ~325 for both squads. They lack the punch of termies and RWBK because they don't play the same role. They're there for horde control and to contest objectives. Pistol and sword doesn't have to mean "badass melee troop." These boys never have to swing a sword to do their jobs. The meltabombs (plus kraks) are there to give them some cheap versatility, but I field them for their jump packs and their flamers, and that fully justifies their inclusion.

Heavy Support:

Devastators: ten marines, four lascannons <- Is the idea to usually split the squad? So the libby will protect both units with the field but only target 1 with the power? Sounds a bit iffy to me... Nope. Why split the squad? Unless you're shooting at a scout sentinel, two lascannons is not reliable, and four is not overkill...four twinlinked ones might be, but "point-and-remove" anything short of a land raider sounds like a winner to me.

2 x Whirlwind <- love them (no matter how much hate they get due to having low AV)

under 1500 points

Now...that's a green tide you can be proud of.

Besides the mobility (which I think is quite a handycap for the list), I struggle to see how will they handle:

- 1-2 fliers. Don't need to be flier spam...but how do you deal with 2 dragons/Vendettas/Dakkajets/Storm Ravens? the 4 lascanons seem not enough IMO

- dedicated CC units. Be it a couple of zerker units, a big terminator unit, some of the big new guys (eldar, tau, whatnot)...I don't really see who can speedbump them or actually handle them properly!

Thanks for throwing out the idea

I understand the concern over mobility. I'm just not sold that rhinos provide any. This list is 1500 points, but I play 1750 or 1850, at which points level the bikes or deathwingassaulters come out. Still, the tactical squads in this list should be able to deploy where they can murder stuff for most of the game and then sprint onto an objective in the endgame. Also, the jumpers are pretty speedy if you need an OBJ contested.

As for fliers...I'm sure we'll disgree, but I'm not threatened by any flier except a drake, so I don't set aside points for dedicated air defense. Fliers are expensive and nonscoring, and, except for the drake, they don't really kill very many marines per turn, so I'd rather just ignore them and concentrate on killing the enemy's ground units. Besides which a twinlinked lascannon is less likely to hit a flier in the first place, but if it does hit , it's far more likely to hurt it than "real" air defense weapons are. I do consider four godhammers (eight chances to roll a 6) to be effective.

Dedicated CC units...don't like plasma and lascannons. They're allergic to it, in fact. Focused fire will generally wipe them before they can act. Unless they're crusader-mounted...in which case I go back to the four godhammers. They're not perfect, but should yield more than one pen/glance per turn. And if the CC unit does arrive...it'll kill exactly one unit before the aforementioned plasma and lascannons vaporize it. Four PCs, 4 PGs, and 4 godhammers, plus ~60 boltgun shots is a lot of vengeance for the poor unit that just got munched.

[facmanpob]

Now, for those of us who don't own that many lascannons....or whirlwinds for that matter, my version would be something like this:

Libby, ML1, PFG, infravisor - 100
Command Squad, Apothecary, SoD - 180

4 x Tac Squad, 4 x PG, 3 x msl - 665

2 x Assault Squad (5), mb, 2 x flamer - 200

Dev squad (5), 2 x LC, 2 x flakk msl - 160
Dev squad (5), 4 PC - 130
WW - 65

Total - 1500

 

To go up to higher points values, e.g. 1850, I'd be thinking of either a Techmarine Blob of Doom (Techmarine with PFG and infravisor + Rifleman Dread + Venerable Dread with assault cannon) or some DWK and sniper scouts

[march10k]

Oh, come on! It's only four lascannons

[facmanpob]

Oh, come on! It's only four lascannons

Yeah, I know, but I only own 2 :)

[Master Avoghai]

I DO own as many lascannons

I prefer march10k list much better because of the number of marine involved and because I'm always fearful when I see devastator squad of 5 members... I'm not fan of 5 man squads of any type actually...

My march10k list looks like that

Libby level1 infravisor PFG

Tech harness and bolter flamer (in drop pod with tactical)

3x 10 tactical PG/PC

1x 8 tactical (flamer/bolter flamer) in drop pod with tech

2x 8 assault 2 flamers/ PW + melta bomb vet sgt

5 RWBK one RWGL hunt master with melta bomb

2xWW

1x8 devy with 4 LC

72 models 1751pts

[Brother dean]

Oh, come on! It's only four lascannons

Yeah, I know, but I only own 2

I own 5 metal ones. With the plastics you really dont have an excuse to not.... Plus all the other toys in the Dev box..... Get a tac squad for the spares and you can have any heavies you want for mixing and matching and options for your tac squads.

Rhinos however, their one unique use is as a moving cover for squads behind. There are the obvious tradeoffs if you mount a squad but it is really usefull to use the rhino wall to screen the units behind ... 70 points for two rhinos is much cheaper than the 80 points for a Dark Shroud...