Painting and gluing models - The correct order of doing it.

[Benzin ninja]

Hello all

 

I have been wondering for a while, what the best order of painting and gluing is.

I see many pictures in the WIP section where models are glued and basecoated, and I can't help but wonder, is it not terribly difficult to paint those hard-to-reach places, like the torso hidden behind the boltgun, or  do most people glue, basecoat, disassemble and then paint it?

 

Are there any advantages/disadvantages in painting first, and gluing afterwards? Should it be done the other way around, or something in between?

[Gurth]

There is no correct order: use whatever works best for you — and that's mostly a matter of experience. For me, the best way is often a combination: some parts need to be painted before assembly, others are better painted after they're glued together. However, with gaming models one my main concerns is strength, so I'll often choose to glue parts before painting, when I would paint before glueing with a similar model built for display.

 

An advantage to painting first is that you can more easily reach all sides, but disadvantages are that you'll need to keep certain areas clear of paint (and/or scrape it off later) and that touching-up is often required to hide glue stains or to paint areas that you kept clear but which turn out to show anyway.

[Valkyrion]

I assemble Tactical Marines without the bolter, Assault Marines without the jump pack, Devastators without the heavy weapon and Terminators without the arms then prime, paint and glue. The disadvantage to this is that the plastic glue doesn't hold as well paint on paint, but a little filing away on those surfaces secures the bond, and it means painting little things (like bolters) is a bit more awkward.

 

With tanks I use the same process but leave the tracks off and paint those on the sprue.

[p34ce]

Or you could use super glue instead, which isn't as reliable or permanent as poly cement, but does the job alright.

 

I paint boltguns separately, holding them up for painting with a section of cut paper clip (large size) wire with a tiny dot of super glue on it, in the drilled out barrel. Assault marines are done legs + arms (no shoulder pads) + torso -> heads + shoulders. I do Blood Angels, so the helmets are a different colour and have to be airbrushed separately anyway.

 

Generally I keep helmets off things like tactical marines, because I do the legs + torso + backpack as one sub-assembly, and the  helmet gets in the way of the patch of exposed internals on the backpack.

 

The reason I do shoulder pads separate is that they often clash with boltgun or bolt pistol on the right hand - in fact most of the right-handed weapons, because they often use the same 90 degree elbow bend.

 

Most of this is done while the marine has about 4 centimetres of paper clip wire sticking out of one of his feet (so I can stick them in a block of polystyrene to dry). Arms get a similar treatment, with a hole drilled (right through the shoulder) where the mould has a natural hollow. Adding the shoulder pad later covers this hole.

 

Hope some of that helps :)

[Benzin ninja]

Thanks for the replies, it does give me some ideas as how to improve my painting process.

The paperclip thing is a really good idea, I gotta get me some of those.

 

Now that you mention "the dirlled out barrel" of the boltgun. How do you ensure that the hole is centered? I've been trying my luck at making a starting whole with a sewing needle, but my eye-hand coordination seems to need some adjustment.

[p34ce]

I wish I had a good answer for you, lol.

 

The truth is, I screw up about 1 in 10-11 barrels, especially pistols, no matter how well I centre it.

 

First off, I sand the barrel face flat as I can. I use the point of a triangular hobby knife blade, mark half way across it as best I can, then give the blade a few gentle twists clockwise then anticlockwise, and take a look. If it looks off in one particular direction, I use the blade again, and give it a twist or two to 'steer' the hole where I want it.

 

I then use a 0.5mm drill bit in a pin-vise drill, and carefully drill a very shallow hole, and see how I've done. If it looks righteous, I drill a little further, then a little more, twisting the drill backwards a few times to de-burr the hole every so often, eyeballing it again until its deep enough that it doesn't matter.

 

Eventually, you come to a point where the plastic in the barrel vent holes on the sides of the barrel starts to go slightly white; the plastic you're seeing there is only a few tenths of a millimetre thick. At this point, I use the 0.5mm bit again (it's exactly the right size), placed in one of the side vents, and drill through just enough to hit the original hole. I do the same on the other side, then ream out the new sideways holes with the bit, and give it a good hard blow to clear out any debris.

 

Finally, I use a 1mm bit, placed in the original barrel hole, and very gently bore out the 0.5mm pilot hole just deep enough to make it look nice and big. This is the stage where I used to mess up a lot.

 

I'm even more careful when dealing with flamers, meltaguns, and especially expensive combi-weapons. Some of those need a 2mm or 3mm bit to look good, but I always start from a 0.5mm pilot hole.

[Benzin ninja]

I wonder how hard it would be to build some sort of 4-point vice-like device with a centeret drillhole.

Of course you would need a device for each drill size, but it would make centering a lot easier.

 

Some sort of push and grip function that works on either 2 or 4 of the gripping arms. I think it would be best if there were a way of gripping with 2 arms at a time, since not all guns are perfectly round in the end you need drilled.

I'm thinking it should end up looking somewhat like the right arm of this dreadnought:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m270239a_99120101076_Ironclad2_873x627.jpg

 

And while on the subject of drilling. What would you, the experts (atleast as compared to me) recon, drill before or after painting?
So far i've done the latter, but mostly because i think, that I only got my small drills after having painted most of my guys.

[S.k.i.t.t.l.e]

The reason you mess up every now and then is because you are drilling a pilot hole, the plastic is too soft to maintain any accuracy as you are using (I'd imagine) a standard two flute drill, and those are not actually for drilling out pre-piloted holes (you would use a three fluted core drill or even a reamer, if anyone's interested), the best way would be to use your knife and check that its centered to start you off, then use your .5mm after that but only to give you a starting point, you shouldn't be drilling deep enough that the the cutting edge disappears into the hole, you should be able to still see see a little of the drills cutting edge, then switch to your 1mm. You can even skip the .5mm if you just dig a little deeper with your knife blade at the beginning. Hope this helps. :)

[S.k.i.t.t.l.e]

Oh and I'd defo drill before painting, you can rip chips out of metallics quite easily. :D

[Benzin ninja]

Everything helps. My knowledge of anything practical is limited, and my ability to carry out ideas (in a propper good looking way) also.

As for having the right tools for the job, I think it quite handy, as i mostly use what ever I happend to have in my pockets at the time.

 

But what would be the propper handymans way to go, as for having the right drill bit? 2 flute, 3 flute or a reamer? Or are they equally good if you just do the right kind of preliminary work?

[Chaeron]

I tend to find I assemble everything prior to painting - although appreciate that there are significant cons to this!

[p34ce]

@Benzin ninja

Yeh, definitely drill before paint. Anything like that always before painting. I don't see why you couldn't do it after, but it would involve handling the model a lot more intently than normal. With regards to drilling barrels, I don't even think it's worth the hassle getting it perfect, they're so small. The important ones IMO are pistols, because for some reason the barrels are much more obvious than boltguns (more variety in position maybe?), and storm bolters. Yeh, the ones even GW's guys can't do straight. Good luck with that lol :)

@S.k.i.t.t.l.e

 

Thanks, my 0.5mm and 1mm are like you'd expect, and they do have a tendency to dig in if you're not careful with the torque. It just seemed natural to use a reasonable pilot hole. Then again, I've only done 20 or 30, so I'm still very much a novice compared to some of the commission guys you see who use a power drill, lol.

 

I have just now tried going straight from a very shallow 0.5mm well to the 1mm bit, and it works pretty well. I do have a tiny diamond pin file I've been meaning to try to give a better finish to the holes, but I'm not even sure it's worth worrying about.

 

@Chaeron

I have no idea how people paint fully assembled marines, boggles my mind. Especially when you see the pro painters, who can't paint sub-assembly in case they mess up their highlighting doing it.

[Chaeron]

I just try my best... ahaha.

 

Like, now I'm in the process of rebuilding a lot of what I have, it makes sense to paint it prior to sticking the last bits together to ensure that everything is painted well. I never really had that luxury before, so it'll be an interesting move!

[S.k.i.t.t.l.e]

Everything helps. My knowledge of anything practical is limited, and my ability to carry out ideas (in a propper good looking way) also.

As for having the right tools for the job, I think it quite handy, as i mostly use what ever I happend to have in my pockets at the time.

 

But what would be the propper handymans way to go, as for having the right drill bit? 2 flute, 3 flute or a reamer? Or are they equally good if you just do the right kind of preliminary work?

Getting the right pin vice would be a good start, I went for the cheapest option, where drills can be put in either end, I'd not recommend this. Get yourself one with a grip at one end, will be more comfortable, give you better control and be a little quicker. Also, if you are doing a LOT of models, don't cheap out on the drill bits, HSS drills are fine in general, but cheapo ones can be very easy to break, so either spend a little more on a decent set of bits or buy a set that has quite a few of each size.

Two flute regular drills are fine, just be sure to get a good centre spot before drilling.

This http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130509350822?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619 is a cheap set, but has quite a lot of each drill, and a lot of different sizes. These aren't badly priced either, and will probably be harder wearing and more forgiving http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-PIECE-MICRO-HSS-DRILL-BIT-SET-METRIC-IN-CASE-TITANIUM-COATED-STORAGE-CASE-13B-/370775730235?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5653f4a83b (although I don't know the brand so I can't say for definite) If money was no object, I'd buy Dormer drills myself, but at smaller sizes, their titanium coated ones will set you back about £2 each. :)

[p34ce]

@S.k.i.t.t.l.e

Nice find there, that first set is pretty much what you need for anything I can think of, including magnetising.

 

I just try my best... ahaha.

 

Like, now I'm in the process of rebuilding a lot of what I have, it makes sense to paint it prior to sticking the last bits together to ensure that everything is painted well. I never really had that luxury before, so it'll be an interesting move!

 

Dude, when I was painting Ultramarines, 10 years ago or something, I don't think I even understood mould lines and sprue marks, and didn't use washes of any kind. Painted black dots on the gun barrels, and good god you want to have seen the eyes on Marneus Calgar, he looked like something from Sesame Street. Painting sub-assemblies was the only thing I got right, lol.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I only assemble after painting. For what it's worth, I haven't had much issue with glue (of either the plastic or super variety) bonding poorly on paint. I have had the occasional issue with things not lining up right because dry-fitting only goes so far, but these instances are few and far between.

 

Easiest way to drill out bolters is to file the barrel flat as mentioned, and then draw a '+' over the centre. If you're off centre, just adjust and drill in the opposite direction while you make the hole bigger.

[marvmoogy]

lots of replies I've not read so apologies if this is a repeat post.....

 

personally, I do it like this:

 

Clean up mini (blade or files)

Put together with blu-tak

Spray undercoat

Take apart mini

Paint bits individually

 

Hope that helps

[S.k.i.t.t.l.e]

I actually made a centre finder out of an old phone card type thing once, works ok on most things, but some bolter barrels aren't perfectly circular.

[Gurth]

don't cheap out on the drill bits

IMHO it's generally good advice to not buy the cheapest tools. Note that I'm not saying that expensive tools make you a better modeller/craftsman/whatever (which is pretty much the most common modern misconception, if you ask me), just that you'll probably find yourself wishing you'd have better tools if you always buy the cheapest ones.

These aren't badly priced either, and will probably be harder wearing and more forgiving http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-PIECE-MICRO-HSS-DRILL-BIT-SET-METRIC-IN-CASE-TITANIUM-COATED-STORAGE-CASE-13B-/370775730235?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5653f4a83b

I once bought a set of titanium-coated drill bits like the one the above link is to, and the damned things just wouldn't drill worth a damn … Even in plastic and resin, never mind metal, I'd spend two or three times the time and effort to drill any hole than my old, non-titanium-coated — and by then somewhat blunt — bits that I had bought the new ones to replace. Not sure why this was, but I then bought another similar set of non-titanium ones, and those work much better.

[S.k.i.t.t.l.e]

@Gurth: I usually don't cheap out either, but not everyone has access to every resource easily. I worked for engneering companies for 10+ years, so I could order stuff through them for very cheap. I've also had a few crappy drill bits, it's usually the cutting angle is wrong when they've been ground, or even worse, they are different on each flute, can be fixed though. I don't want anyone thinking that either of those links are endorsed by me or anything, I just did a quick search on eBay because thats the easiest place to find a lot of things at a fair price (for most people), I haven't bought either of those sets so I have no personal experience with them. :)