goobybls Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 So I just got finished playing an allied game with a guy running IG, vs Eldar+BA opponents. Our list was 2 russes, 1 war walker, I think 3 ig platoons something like 10 ish strong, some ig vets (5?), an ig heavy weapons team 3 weapons strong some sort of commander that could cast 4+ invulnerable on one unit, and cause one unit to fire more than it was allowed to standard and they let him take some dark angels termies to fill in points marbo +my list Plasma honour guard + epistolary(termi)prescience+psychic shriek + warlord trait that forces leadership tests on lowest leader ship stat. + drop pod 1 dc dreadnought on foot w/ bloodtalons 5 death company 5 sanguinary guard Both of which literally were only used to deny deepstriking behind us space wise Should have used these points for other things. Game went to the end of turn 3 and then our opponents threw in the towl. It was the scenario where you have to grab the relic and then run it to your base, we had first turn. So, plasma honour guard + epistolary w/ prescience/psychic shriek and termy armour podded wiped out 5 jetbikes with eldar psychic things on it (farseers?) off of turn 1. IG shot everything to bits that was in range. Our side endures a turn of shooting almost no casualties at back end of board. Epistolary and 3 honour guard remaining are charged by dire avengers+eldrad. Eldrad denies challenge hides. dire avengers take 4 wounds and run off the table. Turn 2 IG do more shooting shenanigans, all but 2 models that count towards objective taking on opponents end dead. DC dreadnought charges deathcompany unit that drop podded in front of our unit taking relic. Does 5 wounds, and is tied up in combat for next turn so can't be shot ! Eldrad dies to two unsaved force weapon wounds from epistolary! Epi +honour sweep into some runes. Opponent teleports assault termies plus commander again in front of now unclaimed objective. Eldar shoot some barrage spinner nonsense over line of sight, cause eldar are magical and kill a bunch of IG. Tied up dreadnought kills last death company member, sweeps twoards tele'd termies. Turn 3 IG shoot some lasguns into termies, two termies die on 1's to save ! Death company dreadnought charges 3 termies and commander, turns every single one of them into lemonade. Both opponents become visibly upset, then say they are done. Thoughts, the death company dreadnought destroyed about 3 times it's points value. This thing is amazing. I think it has technically put in more work than two fragioso's I play tested days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomkapow Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Against Eldar / BA, yea, DC dread will own. Against Tau, it will die quickly and Fragioso will do better. Depends on the enemy. But yea, sounds like he went to work. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milkman Of Baal Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'm surprised you took out his termis, against av3 and below he is an absolute beast and cause absolute underpant ruining terror in my gaming group, but i've found that unless you kill all the termis in the 1st round then he's dead, coz you can only get your endless rolls on unsaved wounds i find that with av2 he just can inflict the amount of wounds you need for them to all die. But good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Ya, how did he fail 3x termy armour saves?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goobybls Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 He was rolling like garbage, pretty sure he lost two termies to something like 16 las shots right before I charged the termie in. And I didn't think I'd wipe the squad but he rolled pretty poorly for wounds, and I got to roll more wounds off the couple I made. Also had our IG ally hold back his commander or w/e it was since he had a 4+ invulnerable buff he could cast on a unit, and had him cast it on the dread. Figured it might survive the round if it didn't wipe the termies outright. Edit: So, update. Also got out another game today. Honour Guard plasma squad and a libby survived 4 turns of shooting from 2 vipers, 2 turns of shooting from warp spiders, and 1 turn of short lived shooting from the jet bike squad that shortly there after got wiped. 2 plasma HG killed themselves over time, but the squad literally took something like 30 shots from warp spiders. And some other eldar floaty trickery. 6 jet bikes ate it, the warp spiders slowly but surely died over 2 turns of shooting and warping away. Feel no pain is utterly ridiculous as well, conversation went like.. do I get a save? yeah? OK. Is it str 8? No? OK. .... No wounds. And all the while they put two wounds on the Sanguinor (promptly jumped him out of sight and range) that our 3rd man decided to try to get into charge range of the HG and clean up whatever wasn't finished for the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Did the DC Dread have a Flamer or Melta? Did whichever weapon you picked perform well? Would you have gone for the other in hindsight? Also, the DC the Dread charged - what were they armed with? How could they not take the Dreadnought out with even Krak grenades? It is after all only AV12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goobybls Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 The dc dread had nothing of note to use as his owner (me) thought to himself... Deathcompany ? CHECKMARK! DREADNOUGHT? MOAR CHECKMARK! DREAD WITH LIGHTNING CLAWS??? OMG TRIPLE CHECKMARKS?! MY ALLY GIVES ME A 4+++.. on a dreadnought???.... HOLY CHECKMARKS FROM HELL!! = Guess I should just charge this thing at :cuss till it dies. (Probably a bad idea) , as I haven't played more than like 2 games since I played with BA about 12 years ago and so didn't consider the thought of krak up my butthole. Though I did think to charge into the powerfisty sergeant he had as they were all out of the pod and still in that neat little clean line around it. (must disembark in a neat little semi circle formation, right? ) So he took the first round of wounds from the nearest models, sergeant was the first closest and therefore couldn't strike back. The rest only had chain swords, I haven't played for a very long time and these guys are new, so we are all aware of melta bomb attack in close combat rule. But I didn't realize any model could drop a krak on you in a fight, and if that is at initiative then I can see your point. Like I said, all rounds of combat I did have my IG partner cast a 4++ on the dread, so I wasn't absolutely concerned about something hitting back. The more and more I think about how :cussty the other BA player roled against everything is making me think running that dread into termies was pretty rash. Though we had pretty much blown everything else away with IG shooting, those termies were the last hope for our opponents of :cussting in our cereal. I am now trying to think of combinations in my head that would afford str 10 ap 2 at initiative in melee without being insta smashed instead of dreads in cc. Problem is toughness 4 on most of our codex means a powerfist wound on a failed inulnerable save will kill you. Where as even if you went dreadnought cc weapons on the dread, then you'd be striking at initiative order, with rage, with str 10 ap 2 ? +2 attacks for your charge right? Hope to god you don't roll a :cuss ton of 1's to wound, and then wait to endure the onslaught back. I feel like paying 125 points for something that not only can potentially destroy atleast a few if not an entire squad of something like terminators, coming in at 200 pts (40 pts a model? and if you charge and make half your attacks into wounds that get through.. that's 120 points alone) is not bad. But my main point of reasoning is that, for the points you aren't only getting this dreadnought thing that might do nothing all game; You are getting a unit that, if used properly can easily force your opponent to rethink his initial strategy, meaning you can deny or atleast cost your opponent turns in maneuvering or re assessing his initial strategy. In this case our opponents didn't respect anything we put down on the board, they prioritized threats incorrectly and failed to see potential threats on the board. Conclusion, I think the dc dread is well worth his points bare so long as you can position it properly. Everything has an endpoint, it might die, yes. But, if I managed to wipe a squad that didn't think it would have to deal with that threat, or manages to deny a certain radius of area with regards to an objective or support to a firing unit that would otherwise be easy prey; EVEN if it just manages to hold up a unit for a turn with a specific purpose like blend other useful units up whilst also causing substantial casualties. Then yes I'd say 125 points is not terrible for what you get. Question Do we have anything with eternal warrior, striking at initiative with a :cuss load of attacks, a :cuss load of wounds and striking at str 10? I know mephiston does most of that, but no eternal warrior on him. (One of my largest concerns) My brother plays eldar now, and the thought of dying to a str 3 elf with a fleshbane sword because he's initiative 6 or 7 makes me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 So he took the first round of wounds from the nearest models, sergeant was the first closest and therefore couldn't strike back. The rest only had chain swords, I haven't played for a very long time and these guys are new, so we are all aware of melta bomb attack in close combat rule. But I didn't realize any model could drop a krak on you in a fight, and if that is at initiative then I can see your point. And that, is the problem. Even before you killed the Sergeant with power fist, you should STILL have taken a lot of Krak attacks at WS4 from all the models in the unit (those guys actually tried to hack the Dreadnought with the Chainsaws at S4? SMH) which are S6+d6 and would have ruined your day readily due to hull points. You played it wrong, and I think you are misled about the unit's combat capability. These days, even if you charge the DC Dread into a Tactical Squad at 10 strength, it is unlikely to make it out of that fight. AV12 Melee walkers are useless in 6th Edition except as suicide units. The only Furioso worth taking is the regular one because it's immune to Krak grenades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goobybls Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 AHH, ok so the trick is av 13 can't be touched? Therefore the guys that lived could have killed the dread... baby lord jesus, why does this dreadnought even exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 One correction, the grenade attacks are *I think* I1, so possibly only survivors may be able to hit you back. Bu they will hit you back. Why does it exist? I don't know, to attack things without Krak grenades I suppose. I don't use them. Ever. EDIT: No, Krak grenades are used at Initiative, Melta are I1. So yeah, you'll get hit by 10 kraks at WS4. Yeah, ouch. The Furioso is so much superior than the DC - WS6 means you'll get hit much less with things like bombs/fists, AV13 means you're immune to krak HP wounds and get penned a lot less by fists and melta. Yeah the DC has some mobility but does it really count when it lasts only one assault? I'd never take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Office temp Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 One correction, the grenade attacks are *I think* I1, so possibly only survivors may be able to hit you back. Bu they will hit you back. Why does it exist? I don't know, to attack things without Krak grenades I suppose. I don't use them. Ever. EDIT: No, Krak grenades are used at Initiative, Melta are I1. So yeah, you'll get hit by 10 kraks at WS4. Yeah, ouch. The Furioso is so much superior than the DC - WS6 means you'll get hit much less with things like bombs/fists, AV13 means you're immune to krak HP wounds and get penned a lot less by fists and melta. Yeah the DC has some mobility but does it really count when it lasts only one assault? I'd never take it. Your DC only lasts one assault? Geez, my local meta must not be very good. My DC usually end up spending half the game teararsing around in the enemies back lines like a pack of drunken frat boys on a Friday night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 One correction, the grenade attacks are *I think* I1, so possibly only survivors may be able to hit you back. Bu they will hit you back. Why does it exist? I don't know, to attack things without Krak grenades I suppose. I don't use them. Ever. EDIT: No, Krak grenades are used at Initiative, Melta are I1. So yeah, you'll get hit by 10 kraks at WS4. Yeah, ouch. The Furioso is so much superior than the DC - WS6 means you'll get hit much less with things like bombs/fists, AV13 means you're immune to krak HP wounds and get penned a lot less by fists and melta. Yeah the DC has some mobility but does it really count when it lasts only one assault? I'd never take it. Your DC only lasts one assault? Geez, my local meta must not be very good. My DC usually end up spending half the game teararsing around in the enemies back lines like a pack of drunken frat boys on a Friday night It depends on positioning and target choice, but a clever opponent will throw a 10+ man unit with Kraks at you, deny you the charge and krak-glance you to death very quickly. I don't mean to judge your meta at all. I don't even know your list, maybe it has a lot of other very dangerous units.. But if someone dropped a DC dread into my backfield, I WOULD charge my Tactical Squad with Power Fist at it. Right away. Well, Right before I try to Melta you of course (AV12 vs Melta, very bad..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Seems one of you is talking about DC marines and the other about DC dreads.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Oh, yeah I just noticed that as well. In my prior post I was comparing the Furioso to the DC Dreadnought (when I abbreviated it as DC, which was probably a mistake). I apologize for causing the apparent misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Am I missing something? 10 marines hitting Øv 4+, needing 6es to glance. And must ruin 2 HP? In my book the marines need 24 grenade attacks to win? And using grenades is still one attack per model..... AFAIK. :) Am I missing something? 10 marines hitting Øv 4+, needing 6es to glance. And must ruin 2 HP? In my book the marines need 24 grenade attacks to win? And using grenades is still one attack per model..... AFAIK. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skawolf Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 @ GoobyBLS With a toughness of 6 you don't have to be to concerned about no Eternal warrior on Mephiston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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