Sableclaw vs Corvex

[marvmoogy]

HI guys, 

 

I have been having a look through the Codex and am curious about when you'd take one over the over as well as wargear options.

 

Wargear:

Sammie's entry in the back of the book says that, if he chooses to take Sableclaw, then he pretty much loses everything else.  However, in the codex entry proper, it implies that he gets everything apart from the weaponry on the vehicle....which is right?  

 

Also, in what situations would you decide to take a TLAC & TLHB over TLSB and a plasma cannon?

 

Cheers!

[jeremy1391]

Sable claw if you want a shooty av14 4++ speeder.

 

Corvex if you want fast hand to hand monster with a plasm cannon.

 

Against armies that lack melta sable claw can work awesomely! Don't have to worry about getting torrented to death by basic troops. Which is a plus against eldar and tau and marines.

[marvmoogy]

thanks for the reply.

 

What do you think about the wargear options laid out in the codex?  Also, do you think 2HPs vs 3 wounds makes a big difference?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Three wounds with 4++ and Eternal Warrior FTW!!! Sableclaw will die to HP hits against practically any army in no time, and they will get Slay the Warlord as a bonus for their anti tank fire. If my (out of head, no dex) mathhammer is right it takes 4 Bright lance hits to kill Sableclaw and 6 to kill Corvex, and Corvex can deny Los much easier and shoot from a longer range. Not to mention you can attach Corvex to a squad to give him ablative wounds as well.

 

Now that he doesn't have to worry about dangerous terrain tests; just put him in Corvex and up somewhere with good LoS to PC type targets then distract the enemy with the rest of your army while he takes pot shots at anything out of cover. Or go Devastator hunting in the back field.         

 

       Edit: I forgot Sableclaw now gets the 4++, makes math different but all things concidered I'd still take Corvex. 

 

Peas

[marvmoogy]

Cheers Stobz. 

 

I was curious as I just got my filthy mitts on a RW upgrade sprue and built myself the "now-seeming-to-be-standard" conversion of sableclaw with an AC under each stub wing and fancied trying him out....funds unfortunately mean my Army building days are numbered for the next year or so....so I best get painting up what I have!

[jeremy1391]

Either one can be fun, if your opponent doesn't have a decent way to deal with AV14 then sable claw can be great.

[Brother dean]

Quote from a Guard player...  "It's 14?  Really?" (I produce codex...)

 

The two hull points are a problem but you do get the night shroud 4+ 

[Master Avoghai]

Sadly he loses the skilled rider rules when he gets Sabreclaw, otherwise he would have benefited from a 3+ cover save IN ADDITION to the 4++ iron halo... :devil:

[facmanpob]

All in all, Sableclaw is the poor relation in 6th Ed. For me, Corvex wins hands down.

[Brother dean]

Sadly he loses the skilled rider rules when he gets Sabreclaw, otherwise he would have benefited from a 3+ cover save IN ADDITION to the 4++ iron halo...

Only when he moved flat out would he get that 3+... I run Sableclaw next to a Dark Shroud so I am running the same modifier that Skilled Rider would give. I also built Sableclaw for cheap and Corvex is the price of a whole squadron of bikes....

[Master Avoghai]

I meant IF he had skilled rider ... Not told he did have ;-)

[Garath]

  Sableclaw isn't that bad.  AV 14/14/10 .hits with both AC  and HB practically all the time.  It does have only 2 HP- but you can get a techmarine to repair it..

 

 Stobz mentioned something about 4 bright lance hits taking it down....not too sure about that. 

 

Let's see:

 

4 hits...then they glance on 4(penn on 5,6) - 2 glnaces/penns

 

Sableclaw has 4++ (iron halo)- so one of them doesn't go through.

 

 It takes effort to bring enough Bright lances to land 4 hits. That land speeder isn't that big, you kow- you CAN hide it.

 

 

  On the other hand Corvex doesn't bring any more protection then a standard SM captain on a bike apart from EW. The extra rules combinations when joining units are indeed a big boost.

 

 

 Still, you can build a mighty Ravenwing army with some supporting elements led by Sableclaw.

 

 Sableclaw

 Techmarine on bike with Servo Harness

 Command squad in a LRC with BoD

 

Elites:

Terminators or DK in the other LRC

Mortis with 2 twin linked LC

Troops:

 

 RAS +AB MM

 RAS +AB MM

 RAS +AB MM

 

Heavy support:

 

 LRC

[ValourousHeart]

Something to consider... Minimum strength to wound or glance.

 

Jet bike is S3

Speeder is S8

 

If you count there are 7 bolters in every tact squad, but only 1 ml and 1 melta gun.

 

IG Vets 7 lasguns and 3 melta

 

I could go on if you want.

 

The other issue is weapon selection. It isn't a PC & SB, it is PC or SB... He can only fire 1.

 

As for the speeder weapons there are quite a large over lap for targets of the HB & AC. And with TL he shoots like he is BS10. I generally hit with 6 of his 7 shots a turn.

 

Survivability is interesting. Someone may need to check my math.

Vs bright lances.

Speeder = 4/6 to hit, 1/2 to glance, 1/2 shield, 2HP = 12 shots required.

Jet bike = 4/6 to hit, 5/6 to wound, 1/2 to save, 3W = 10.8 shots required.

When you factor in the squad the jet bike is with the jet bike wins vs BL.

 

However a better comparison is vs IG Vets with 3 melta. I can't find my book at the moment, but run the numbers over and under 6", and with and without orders.

 

That dedicated anti tank squad struggles in most of those match ups against the speeder, but generally wrecks face vs the jet bike, especially with first rank, second rank.

[Brother dean]

Something to consider... Minimum strength to wound or glance.

 

Jet bike is S3

Speeder is S8

 

]

That math and all is good but the rear arc on the speeder only needs S4... 

[ValourousHeart]

@ Brother Dean,

 

That is a fair point... however since the release of our 4th ed codex, only one player has managed to get a unit into the rear facing of Sammie.  That unit did have a melta gun and they were less than 6" away... and the player still chose to shoot at my bikes, so that he could charge them.  It so happened that he killed one model and I pulled the closest model (4th ed, I didn't have to) but that left him out of charge range, and he was quickly dispatched the following turn.  That game was in the first 6 months of the release of our 4th ed book.

 

I learned a valuble lesson that day... and no one has managed to get to the rear since.

 

The last thing I am trying to say is that I am some stellar player... I am not.  But I am saying that Sammie is fast enough that in either form you should be able to call the turn when he goes into CC.  If he is getting charged it is because you misjudged a distance.  Keeping units from getting to within 6" of him or in his rear facing takes a little practice, but isn't that hard.

 

Proper facing isn't required vs. the jetbike.

 

Hey don't get me wrong, the jetbike model looks great, the rules for it now in 6th are wonderful, it can join a squad and it can fight in close combat.  However the speeder is on par with every top teir HQ when it comes to infantry removal, the jetbike is not.  The speeder can hit and kill up to 7 models a turn, and I average 6 hits a turn.  The jetbike can only get close to that with a lucky shot from the PC followed by a very good round of CC.

[Cypher 102]

Don't forget that when Sammael on Corvus joins a Ravenwing Attack Squadron he gives them skilled rider.

[marvmoogy]

All really helpful - thanks guys! :)

 

I think I'm gonna take him out on sableclaw and see what he can do.  As I said, I don't have the funds to get Corvex at the mo and my next purchases will be those which let me finish the infantry for my company....

 

Now, to make a nicely balance list with the Ravenwing I do have!

[Interrogator Stobz]

I totally agree that Sableclaw is a good choice; seven AP 4/5 hits vs non mech is useful, but vs MEQ/TEQ not so much (1.75MEQ/0.85TEQ kills= Meh, add one to each if you assume one rending wound).

My math was wrong in my above post (due to forgetting about the 4++ which I mentioned there) which makes Sableclaw nice and survivable in a linear engagement vs BLs and other long range high strength weapons.

I personally would really struggle to keep all the DSing units that my regular opponents use from killing him in one round (5 Dual melta BA Assault Marines, 110points will do the trick) not to mention Tau Jetpack units etc.

Most people I play have not traded in melta for S7 high output weapons like teh interweb has advised so AV14 is still under threat from most units on the table.

That lucky PC shot into the same clumped DS's unit will kill 5-7 assuming no scatter then charge for another one or two kills, Sableclaw simply cannot match that level of damage output vs. MEQ/TEQ (good luck rolling 4 rends :P ). If you get mild scatter or target non clumped MEQ/TEQ you will probably still get 1-3 kills which is the average for Sableclaw.

Having PCs scattered throughout your force gives DSing units some real cause to pause and consider if running instead of shooting is a better idea, by then we have stolen his initiative and chance to cause damage and assaulted him in our turn, or targeted him with an appropriate reactive unit.

If they are not MEQ/TEQ which is Sableclaws favourite target then Corvex can shoot then charge them too and will likely do more combined 'damage' than 5 kills or force morale checks, add in Hit and run and he owns GEQ every day of the week.

It's a whole lot of situational tit for tat really; both options are good at different things but to me Corvex has the whole package while Sableclaw is limited to culling TEQ and the odd light vehicle from within 24".

I especially like Corvex now he can attach to bike squads (which throws out any point for point arguement, it just gives him options like those listed above).

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stobz