BA - how to not get auto-tabled

[bellator]

So I'm returning to 40k after a break of several years and am brand new to 6E. Despite the uphill battle BA face in this edition, I am really drawn to their fluff, style of play, and aesthetic.

 

Problem is, in building a list, I don't even know where to begin other than knowing I want something geared towards close combat. Mech seems like its bound to fail with thinly armored transports and the new vehicle rules, whereas infantry seems kinda nerfed with the plethora of shooting.

 

Is it even possible for a pure BA to get across the table and do some damage in this edition? Basically...help! Where do I begin?

 

[Emperors Immortals]

Im far from an authority on BA, but a CC list can work well focusing on denial, fast movement and 2 special weapons in a combat squad can make fast work of an opponents plans if not his troops.

 

But ive run a fast mechanised list since 5th and its does very well against most opponents - Orks occasionaly cross the board and wipe me in CC (rare) or Necron out armour me (obviously). Dark Eldar rarley bring enough lances to really worry me and the only true opposition is other marines / deep striking tau suit madness.

 

The only secret is exploit the Lucifer engine (fast rhino chassis) rules we get, IMO the best (and most underrated) rule in 40k.

 

Starting with 3 razor backs, I then kit them with 5 man RAS with plasma and a twin linked lascannon. theres ani-armour, though it can be vulnerable.

 

I then add predators with lascannons, no sponsons. Theres some more AV targets and more anti-armour.

 

Ill add one or two vindicators as well - keep them on a flank and make the most of your fast movement to influence opponents reactions. You cannot make him do what you want, but you have a good chance to make him move where you would like.

 

Assault cannons are very useful, though I dont normally take them on dreads, with missile launchers and keep them at mid table.

 

Troops choices are either the above razorbacks or substitute them with units of podded Sternguard/ bolter DC or plain tactical units. Tactical are underrated too, but armed with just bolters, a multimelta and a flamer can make a horrible mess of an opponents DZ, just support them with either more pods/outflankers or a fast moving wall of armour - Lucifer engine BA.

 

How does this tie in with CC? just substitute choices for appropriate CC units, such as sang guard or VV instead of sternguard, or drop the preds and vindi to fit in more RAS squads deep striking. One combat squad has 2 melts to take care of vehicles, the other can pin a unit and wait for reinforcement. Flamers are my current love, there very versatile.

 

 

 

TL;DR - dont underestimate infantry or armour in the BA codex, our fast engines and FnP bubbles are still game winning tactics if used well. CC is possible, but must be used with total support. Alos, see morticons or knife and forks lists and advise.

 

Good luck.

[bellator]

Hey thanks so much for the reply. Do you think that a hybrid list would fare well at all? I was thinking something like having a few squads in razorbacks primarily hanging back to snag objectives and take pot shots, with the rest of the force DSing in. I think the biggest issue with this would be the razorback squads getting picked on early. Any thoughts?

[TheHarrower]

The bread and butter for Blood Angels used to be Razorbacks with Assault Squads. If you try mech like that you are doomed to fail. IMO, mech is better for Blood Angels now since our Assault Marines are garbage and with Jump Packs you'll never make it across the table with all the firepower that Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights bring to the table and we can bring a lot of AV13 which is problematic for a lot of lists.

 

I'd recommend a hybrid Mech/Drop Pod list as that will ensure you get some units close and will give your opponent something to worry about while the rest of your forces move up. I use 8-9 Death Company in a Drop Pod with 2 Power Axes and Bolters. In another Drop Pod I'd take a Furioso Dreadnought with Frag Cannon and Heavy Flamer. I'd also consider a third Drop Pod so you can drop 2 first turn. You can go with another Furioso Dreadnought or Honour Guard/Sternguard Veterans with Meltaguns for dealing with armour or monstrous creatures.

 

For back field I always take a Land Raider Redeemer with Multi-melta and 10 Assault Marines. If I have the slot, I'll take Corbulo because his 2+ Feel No Pain is just ridiculous and he does buff nearby units with Furious Charge and Feel No Pain and having one reroll in your pocket is always really handy. My HQ is always a Librarian and he usually goes in the Land Raider and uses Shield of Sanguinius for the 5+ cover save. The Land Raider shouldn't have any problem making it across the table because your opponent will be busy dealing with your Drop Pods.

 

The rest of your army will need troops to capture objectives and something to deal with opposing flyers. Long range fire would be nice to have too. You can fill out the rest of the list with Vindicators, Baal Predators, Predators, Devastators, Storm Raven, Assault Marines in Razorbacks, or Tactical Marines. Really depends on what your core is and what you are trying to do, so I'll let you fill in with what works for you. Good luck!

[bellator]

Hey thanks that was really quite helpful. A DS/Mech hybrid was exactly what I was looking for. In another topic, what does BA have to deal with fliers? It seems like they are pretty limited, with the Stormraven as the only real option.

[Boomkapow]

I agree with TH. I run a bunch of AV13 against my buddies and hold my own. Fragiosos (Furiosos with Frag Cannon / Heavy Flamer) are awesome at taking down bunkered units. Vindicators and Baal Preds are nothing to scoff at either. Also, don't let the fact that DC are CC machines dissuade you from taking bolters. Since they are relentless they can rapid fire, then charge. It is awesome putting these guys in LR or DPs. 

 

Lastly, do not be afraid to take tac squads in a CC list. You need versatility, and bolter fire will mow down fire warriors, necrons, Guardsmen, and guardians. Here is a sample of the lists I take:

 

librarian

     -Force Axe

 

Sanguinary Priest on Bike

 

3 Attack Bikes with Multi Meltas

 

2 Tac Squads in Rhinos

 

1 Assault Squad in Rhino

 

Death Co. in Pod or Land Raider

 

2-3 Offensive Tanks (Vindicator, Pred, Whirlwind, Etc.)

 

 

PS: Assault Cannon/Multi-Melta Ravens are as good as any other fliers in the game in terms of output and durability.

[TheHarrower]

Hey thanks that was really quite helpful. A DS/Mech hybrid was exactly what I was looking for. In another topic, what does BA have to deal with fliers? It seems like they are pretty limited, with the Stormraven as the only real option.

 

For flyers there really aren't a lot of options and that is kind of our Achilles heel. We can fight well on the ground and fight well in the air, but doing both becomes problematic because of point costs. If only we could take a Storm Talon that would do wonders for our anti-air, but I digress...

 

You can go Storm Raven or Aegis with a Quad-gun or Icarus Lascannon. Quad-gun is almost better in all respects unless you have a high BS model on the Lascannon and even then I usually prefer volume of shots (but Strength 9 and AP2 is so tempting...). Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Aegis Defense line. It's a point sink IMO and makes your list more static as you need a unit on the gun shooting it. It's great for Tau and Eldar, but for Power Armour armies I'm not a big fan.

 

Aside from the obvious choices, Assault Cannons are good because they deliver a high volume of fire. Usually I use Machine Spirit on my Redeemer to shoot at flyers since it's also twin-linked. You can also use a Librarian with Prescience to get rerolls with Devastators or Lascannon Predators. This is the equivalent of using a sharpened stick when you need a scalpel, but that's what we got to work with without resorting to Allies.

 

Your local meta is going to dictate what the best approach is. You can try ignoring flyers as they often don't do enough damage to win a game by themselves unless it's a Heldrake (or 2 or 3) and then you are in real trouble. I stick with a Storm Raven because I'm not a fan of the Aegis and I have to deal with Necron Night Scythes and Heldrakes fairly often. I hope that helps.

[Morticon]

Storm Raven is the definitive flyer answer.  TL Multimelta, and 4 Blood Strike missiles (S8, AP1) and then either TLAC, or TLLC.  Its hot, hot, hot.

[knife&fork]

You can also use a Librarian with Prescience to get rerolls with Devastators or Lascannon Predators. This is the equivalent of using a sharpened stick when you need a scalpel, but that's what we got to work with without resorting to Allies.

Flyers are usually an issue late game. So resorting to snapshots from ground units (twinlinked or not) is not as much of a waste as it might seem at first. You might even argue that's a better use of points than spending a bunch on dual storm ravens.

I personally like to TL MM attack bikes for this purpose. They are fast enough to catch flyers and when they hit it really hurts. Haven't done the math on it but I'd imagine they come out quite favorably thanks to 2D6 pen and AP1.

[Jolemai]

Storm Raven is the definitive flyer answer.  TL Multimelta, and 4 Blood Strike missiles (S8, AP1) and then either TLAC, or TLLC.  Its hot, hot, hot.

Thanks for that. I look forward to mine getting blown out of the sky in the first game I use it...

[bellator]

Wow thanks for all of the advice all. I am truly grateful and a bit surprised at all of the input already. Clearly this is a great community.

 

As far as the storm raven goes, I am honestly a bit less than sold. I understand that multiple ravens are the most competitive choice for anti-air, but the price tag turns me off. To be completely honest, I am a bit biased against running fliers myself as well. I don't really like the dimension it has added to the game. The models are a bit cartoony to me as well. I am in this game for the fluff and the aesthetic mostly, but also don't want to be a total schmuck on the tables. Thus, while it may not be the most competitive option, I think that I will explore some of the other anti-air that has been mentioned here and try to get the best out of that.

 

Again, thanks to everyone who has commented so far. I am pretty blown away by the community here already.

[TheHarrower]

Storm Raven is the definitive flyer answer. TL Multimelta, and 4 Blood Strike missiles (S8, AP1) and then either TLAC, or TLLC. Its hot, hot, hot.

Flyer vs. flyer it's fine and rules the skies. I guess I should have clarified as I meant it becomes an issue when you have to deal with multiple Vendettas, Night Scythes, or Heldrakes.

Flyers are usually an issue late game. So resorting to snapshots from ground units (twinlinked or not) is not as much of a waste as it might seem at first. You might even argue that's a better use of points than spending a bunch on dual storm ravens.

I personally like to TL MM attack bikes for this purpose. They are fast enough to catch flyers and when they hit it really hurts. Haven't done the math on it but I'd imagine they come out quite favorably thanks to 2D6 pen and AP1.

Never tried this. I'll have to give it a shot and see how it works.

[Morticon]

Multiple vendetta is going to be a problem on account of their cost and ability to squad up, but 2x Ravens are capable of taking out 4 flyers in a turn - unlikely- but POTMS and TLMM is golden.  If you win dice off, go second and react to his forces. 

 

Wow thanks for all of the advice all. I am truly grateful and a bit surprised at all of the input already. Clearly this is a great community.

 

Again, thanks to everyone who has commented so far. I am pretty blown away by the community here already.

 

Really great to hear that! We do try to keep a welcoming and open vibe here ^_^

[Midnightmare]

Might be crazy, but I am thinking of dropping most of our troops due to their cost!! Using maybe just one squad of Tac marines for late game grabbing, then just bring loads of killy stuff to kill opponents troops - Meph/Fragioso/DC in Raider or pod/Baals/Attack bikes (for transports)