I. Chaplain or Librarian in deathwing army

[Barzyn]

Whats better to take in a 2k pt Deathwing list, an Interrogator Chaplain in terminator armour with mace of redemption or a cheap lvl 1 librarian in terminator armour with melta bombs? (i know the ic is higher pts cost) but was wondering what would work better. I kinda think the IC would work better cuz of the zealot rule, can put him with my deathwing knights , but librarian could work for lower pts cost (then could take options on dreadnought and land raiders). What would ya'll do?

[elphilo]

What's the intended role for your IC?

 

Did you want someone to help wreak face with the Deathwing Knights? Then the IC with Mace of Redemption would be better.

 

Do you want someone to act as a force multiplier with buffs and debuffs? Then the level 2 Librarian would be better.

 

This is all in my opinion though :)

[Dirrain]

If the knights are a critical part of my strategy - IE charging out of a land raider to crush priority targets, I'd take the Chaplain. If I were just using the knights as a distraction, I'd take the Librarian.

 

Ultimately, I'd choose based on your strategy. If you want a mean Death Star unit of knights and chaplain, take him. Otherwise grab a librarian for buffs after vengeful strike runs out.

 

A couple of other things to consider - the librarian has no invuln save unless you pay 20-30 points, and he has a force weapon.

 

EDIT - Dammit keep getting ninja-Ed today!!

[Barzyn]

Depends on what army i am playing , there's alot of chaos players that play varied chaos space marine lists, some play with chaos daemon allies. so  i'm guessing the Interrogator Chaplain with Mace of Redemption in my squad of knights would work better against chaos players. i got both land raiders and land raider crusaders (i got 2 of each) i can run a list with 2 land raiders, 2 land raider crusaders or 1 of each. I want the knights to play big role in my army for close combat , while my regular troops my terminators take out bigger units with the assault cannon teams and the heavy flamer one, cuz i got 2 x 5 terminators with 2 assault cannons (2 different units) and 1 unit with a heavy flamer (put belial in this unit). i'm guessing most players would worry about the land raiders, so would tend to shoot at them more than my troops, cuz i will put my knights in a land raider crusader and run them up the board , just trying to figure out the best combination with my knights. Not many ppl use librarians or psykers at my club, so i don't see a reason for a librarian really unless i want to turn my list into full deathwing and everyone (including vehicles) get the prefered enemy if i am playing chaos space marine army

[elphilo]

Well it sounds like you want someone to help smash face with your Deathwing Knights. Then I'd go with the IC with Mace of Redemption.

 

Also what points are you playing at? If its 2k plus, you can have Belial, IC and a Librarian :D

[Barzyn]

its either go with that or take Asmodai (to get the instant death wpn but 3 lower str, 1 higher armor save) for 25 - 30 less pts, then use those pts and put deathwing upgrade on one of the land raiders. I guess either choice would work, i kinda prefer the Interrogator in Termie Armor tho, more survivable prolly in a squad of knights, plus its hard to pass up the bane of the traitor when facing chaos space marine army though

[McFisty]

A librarian with prescience is potentially better than a chaplain with zealot/hatred. Prescience can allow for re-rolls, both shooting and close combat, every turn the librarian makes his psychic check (with Ld. 10). Zealot/hatred only allows for close combat re-rolls on the turn they charge. The chaplain does get a 4+ invul. save, while a librarian must take terminator armor or other war gear to gain an invul. save. Both units are fearless and all deathwing are fearless due to the inner circle rule. The chaplain is better in close combat but that's not as big a priority when teamed up with deathwing knights. If you want the re-rolls then go with a librarian, if you want a beat stick then go with the chaplain.

[cypherkk]

I've had great effect with a termy chappy with a mace of face smashing even in armies without knights.  he's a great combat modifier for regular terminator squads. 

 

The Libby not so much.  He usually dies first chance he gets.   But he may be better against monsterous creatures due to insta gibbing them.  Libby's seem to work better nursing heavy weapons and anit tank, or trying for invisibility with RW.  Psyckic scream is good but hasn't worked to well for me.

[shabbadoo]

What McFisty said. The Librarian with just the simple Divination Primaris power of Prescience beats an Interrogator-Chaplian's capabilites so far as what he adds to the unit, and a Level 1 Librarian in Terminator armor will cost 15 points less than a base Interrogator-Chaplain. Bump him up to Level 2, and he still costs 10 points less than an Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator armor. Sure, you give up +1 BS, +1 W, and +1 Att, but you get a second psychic power and a psychic hood, which could be pivotal depending on what army you face. If the enemy has a psyker then at least you have a better defense. If the enemy has no psyker then your Librarian ought to shine. Other than divination's Prescience power, the Telekinesis Primaris power Assail is not too bad for a model that can be joined to Belial and another unit, which won't scatter upon arrival, allowing you to line up a nice 18" range Str 6 Strikedown beam attack. Or you could end up with something like Vortex of Doom (The horror.....the horror. ), or even Shockwave, which does d6 Str 3 Pinning hits to *every* enemy unit within 12" (nova effect).

But Interrogator-chaplains do look cool, and it is not like they are really all that much inferior. It really depends on how you want to play the game, which will determine which one is actually the best for you.

[Isiah]

Personally I prefer the Libby option as a good solid second-string HQ. But, in your specific scenario Barzyn (i.e. possibly with Knights) then I'd go for the IC .

I suppose one could say that overall an Interrogator-Chaplain is a fluffier option for the DA - given his more specialist anti-Fallen role - but that doesn't really reflect on what's best on the tabletop. Because although Int-Chaplains are pretty awesome at what they do - it's too specific a tactical role for them to be able to be in the right situation to gain advantage from it every turn - hence for me a slightly wasted skill set. A Librarian on the other hand can use one or other of his special skills pretty much every turn. Just my opinion of course.

One could level the same criticism against DW Knights too - but that's for another discussion

Cheers
I

[cypherthefallenangel]

If your including crusaders and DWK in your list. You could take zeke instead of either the others. He brings alot more to the table than the others. Like he's cheap (145pts), WS6 knights, 3+/4+ deny the witch(with relic) 3 psy powers a turn, mastercrafted weapons and better stats (+1WS) than the others. The downside no invul, no teleport. Just an idea.

[DAG42]

Personally I prefer the Libby option as a good solid second-string HQ. But, in your specific scenario Barzyn (i.e. possibly with Knights) then I'd go for the IC .

I suppose one could say that overall an Interrogator-Chaplain is a fluffier option for the DA - given his more specialist anti-Fallen role - but that doesn't really reflect on what's best on the tabletop. Because although Int-Chaplains are pretty awesome at what they do - it's too specific a tactical role for them to be able to be in the right situation to gain advantage from it every turn - hence for me a slightly wasted skill set. A Librarian on the other hand can use one or other of his special skills pretty much every turn. Just my opinion of course.

One could level the same criticism against DW Knights too - but that's for another discussion

Cheers

I

Brother Isiah has this right on. The libby is superior all around to the IC. At 2K you can add the IC but under those pts. libby is best option.

[Barzyn]

Yeah could take zeke i didn't think of that. i am gonna run two lists depending on who i face though, prolly one with I.chaplain in termie armour with mace of redemption if i'm facing chaos who don't have sorcerer, and then maybe run a list with a librarian. i'm gonna have to re configure my lists for my librarian though as i have deathwing upgrades on my vehicles which prolly won't do much good unless i'm facing chaos anyways. might pop in zeke and give him a try instead  which will work prolly alot better than asmodai, i just like asmodai's model though heh

[elphilo]

Yeah could take zeke i didn't think of that. i am gonna run two lists depending on who i face though, prolly one with I.chaplain in termie armour with mace of redemption if i'm facing chaos who don't have sorcerer, and then maybe run a list with a librarian. i'm gonna have to re configure my lists for my librarian though as i have deathwing upgrades on my vehicles which prolly won't do much good unless i'm facing chaos anyways. might pop in zeke and give him a try instead which will work prolly alot better than asmodai, i just like asmodai's model though heh

Don't look at the Deathwing upgrade as only giving preferred enemy. A venerable Land Raider is a tough nut to crack.

[Pbenner]

I wish Ezekial would have gotten an option to wear Terminator Armor - He should.  

 

Personally, I find that Pure Deathwing doesn't have points to waste on characters early on.  Dollar for Dollar you're going to get more pull out of a Command Squad with a banner of Fortitude.  

 

Paul

[Dark_Master]

I wish Ezekial would have gotten an option to wear Terminator Armor - He should.

Paul

I think GW really missed a trick not giving our named characters the option for TDA.

 

It would have been very fluffy.

 

Calgar can do it, why not Azrael?

 

DM

[Cactus]

To prevent third party manufacturers exploiting gaps in their model range GW no longer produce rules for new models without having the model to sell. Models of terminator-armoured Ezekiel, Azrael and Asmodai would be a lot of work for (I imagine) limited return.

[Barzyn]

Well Zeke would fit my army scheme as his two handed sword and bolt pistol are master crafted, so that will help out that i can re roll hits at least. I might drop the deathwing upgrades from my land raiders and figure out what to do with the left over pts. I guess taking a command squad would be better idea, cuz you can get an apothecary in that unit, but haven't fiddled with a list with just a deathwing command squad in it though. Zeke has a 2+ armor save just no invuln save though thats the downside to using him, he is in Artificer armour though. I guess if i want to hammer stuff with my knights when i play a chaos space marine army , an interrogator chaplain is best bet, if i want to go head to head with psyker armies Zeke or a lvl 2 librarian in terminator armor is best bet, but Zeke is lvl 3, but he don't have and invulnerable save though

[march10k]

 The chaplain is better in close combat but that's not as big a priority when teamed up with deathwing knights.

Oh, but it is.  The knights only get to smite once.  In every other round of combat, the attached character is going to be the mainstay of your offensive output.  That's ample reason to choose the chappy over the libby for this role.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Question 1: Does your unit of DW Knights actually need buffing in CC?

I'd be suprised if it did. Not wiping a unit in your own turn is often advantageous.

 

Question 2: What is the one major weakness in your list that needs fixing? (Shooting/CC/Resilience/Mobility etc)

I don't think adding another character is actually the answer; YMMV of course but more 2-3 more bodies might be an answer.

 

Adding any second character to a 'pure' DW list is a lot of points spent away from troops so think long and hard about if you need it.

 

If you must then I generally support Shabbadoo and Isiah with the TDA Libby choice over the IC for a DW army. I play water style so flexibility is key for me.

I also agree with March when it comes to his list and style of play (kind of a fire style), but that might not suit you if you play less agressively.

 

Off the beaten track a little: What about a TLLC Mortis Dread for a little supporting fire? If you run Mars LRs then it will fit in nicely with them, and a little skyfire is always welcome (Paint it bone for visual goodness).

 

Food for thought?

 

stobz

[Darkangeldentist]

From personal experience the librarian wins out most of the time. His cost is a factor but the powers are almost always going to be more useful over the course of a game than the chaplain's zealot rule. Chaplains are better combat characters and slightly more reliable for the benefits (you will fail the odd psychic test) but he is less versatile.The extra wound shouldn't be completely discounted but it really depends on precisely what you want done.

 

By this I mean from how you expect the army to work. If you plan on a largely infantry force where you can freely apply powers onto the units that need them then the librarian wins hands down. However if your plan revolves around hammer units surging out of land raider transports to crush opponents in devastating assaults then the chaplain is probably the better choice.

 

If I'm bringing crusaders, then the chaplain probably wins, however almost any other configuration the librarian will more likely prove the more versatile and useful, whether you go for level one or two mastery level. Melta bombs are a quite marvelous upgrade for him but so is an auspex (I've been enjoying it a lot) and being prepared to roll for the power and consider what will prove most useful for each particular matchup. Precognition can keep a unit alive by the librarian playing bullet catcher (not always possible but fun when it happens), perfect timing can save your bacon against some of nastier new units out there and misfortune is just downright obscene if it works. Prescience is just always good but by no means the absolute best power you can have.

[Barzyn]

i'm limited on infantry, i might have to swap out a land raider for another squad of knights or terminators, haven't decided yet i'm limited on model wise, i have enough models for 1 squad of 5 knights, 3 squads of terminators. 2 assault cannon teams and 1 heavy flamer team (both 5 man units) (one of the assault cannon teams are from dark vengeance), if i had an extra box of deathwing command squad , i could make another unit of knights or terminators, depends how hard my army get hit. i'm not good on offense but i'm good in close quarters though with models, shooting wise i'm not good with that part of game i'm more melee oriented a bit mind set, so my knights are the best unit i got for that atm. Should i swap out a land raider (or land raider crusader) and put in another squad of knights, and then just run with a libby instead of interrogator chaplain in termie armour?. my army is not that big its 26 models total. 5 knights 15 terminators, Belial, (libby or int chap) venerable dread, 2 land raiders or (land raider crusaders) and a drop pod. so my list is not that big at 2000 pts, i could use another squad of infantry of some kind so taking out a land raider might be best option for me atm. haven't play tested my lists yet so, i'm not sure what to do with it atm, still in process of assembling and painting it atm, i'm missing belial and a libby/chappy atm anyways so can't play until i get belial at least

[Interrogator Stobz]

If I were you then; I'd go for something similar to March's dual raider list and any points left you can spend on more bodies inside the raiders and maybe a libby on bike with PFG or in TDA running along behind the raiders with a PFG (just for the giggles, due to the stoopid FAQ ruling).

 

Go forth and slay...

 

Edit: If you take one raider then take two, redundancy is key there.

Hell if you want to start rolling take 2xLRC and 1x LR with three squads inside and drop Belial with a shooty squad in their rear turn two to disrupt raider killers. As you get more bodies you can try different combos, you only learn an army by playing not by reading our waffles.

[cypherthefallenangel]

Zeke does have assault grenades so assaulting into cover on turns after disembarking the crusader, will not be penalized to I1. Also his book of salvation acts like a banner as all DA units within 6” of him or his crusader, will get the +1WS bonus. Not just his unit.

He's only 15pts more than a stock lvl2 libbi in TDA and 25pts cheaper than an IC with MoR in TDA(a personal favorite).

If you take zeke he will need a ride and escorts. Ive taken...

Zeke

6x DWKs with relic

LR Crusader with MM

726 pts.

its a lot of points but what isn't for DW. You get Adamantium Will, Fear, Hammer of Wrath, a 6” +1WS bonus bubble, you Cannot Hide, T5, Mc force sword, smite (with presence ouch), preferred enemy CM, Fearless, 2+/3++, WS6, Assault Grenades, and 3 psy powers per turn(Mind worm, Presence, and something else) riding around in a DW Crusader. A hell of a lot of stuff for your opponent to try and handle and if you can get the DW command squad with the BoF near by. :)

Ive smashed the crap outa every thing ive sent them after. its alot of fun try it out. Barring horrendous dice rolling it will make up for its points cost.

As for an invul save with a little luck(33%chance) you could roll ”forewarning”(div) or ”fiery form”(pyro) for a free 4++.

[[TA]Typher]

For cost alone in a DW army I always go for the Librarian.

 

His ability as a force multiplier is fantastic, and the option of force killing other people is too good to pass up.

 

Place him in a unit of knights and you have a hard hitting unit.