Need help with Wraithguard & Barbie

[AngryCanadian]

i cant figure out how to beat this army

 

he has 3 units of wraithguard in serpents with the crazy shield things, and a gun that TL's all the other guns incl the shield

-2 with the AP2 flame, and the other some high str gun 8-10?

then the barbie with big cannons

a single gun on bike who give out 2 bonus (a 12" TL on another unit, and a 24" one too) and a 2+ cover save by some trickery

 

Here is what I have painted

 

Mephiston, Sanguinor, Dante, Librarian (JP)

S. Guard, 3x S. Priests, Corbulo, Fragisio (Pod)

2x 10 Man Alst squads

3x Baal Preds

Vindicator, Stormraven

 

Here's what i have but not assembled and painted

TDA Librarian, honour guard, Thunder & Lightning TDA Captain

Chaplain, L. Furioso, Aslt terminators, terminators x10

15x Death Coy, 10 sniper scouts, 10x tact squad

3x razorback, pod, LR Cruader, Aegis

2 auotlas pred, ML Dev Squad

 

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[Theredknight]

Wow, that's a lot of points on char!

 

Drop Dante, unless he's a game winner for you, go down to 1 or 2 if you really need sang priests, you can place a priest between 2 assault squads for fnp.

What specials weapons have you in the assault squads?

Also with points maybe worth taking death coy in a flier as he has no air capability or bikes to melt his barbie.

Or even the dev squad is better than a char heavy army

:-)

[Demoulius]

he has 3 units of wraithguard in serpents with the crazy shield things, and a gun that TL's all the other guns incl the shield

-2 with the AP2 flame, and the other some high str gun 8-10?

Just to make sure your opponent is doing things correctly. Is he firing the gun that makes everything TLed first?Also: he only rerolls the to hit rolls for the model with the actual model. NOT for everyone or simular vehicles... Some guys at my local GW had a trouble grasping that little detail...The gun that makes everything TLed is an eldar laser weapon. If its on a transport its mostly like a scatter laser (S6 but only AP6 so allows armor) and with 4 twin linked shots hes unlikely to miss all shots (only works if you have at least 1 hit) On the plus side, if he takes that on the transport he only (im assuming wave serpent here btw) has a twin linked shuriken catapult or cannon as the 2nd weapon, which isent all that scary.... The smaller transport one (falcon) has a 2 shot S8AP2 gun which is a little more dangerous.

If he uses his crazy shield thing as a gun does he then also use it to well...shield his vehicle? Because the shield thing is either the one or the other. Something a few people at my GW try to overlook, or simply dont read the entire ruling of it...

Cant find anything about a AP2 flamer though?

a single gun on bike who give out 2 bonus (a 12" TL on another unit, and a 24" one too) and a 2+ cover save by some trickery

Unsure what you mean with that one only thing I can think of would be able to do something like that is a warlock on a bike joined to a unit... Hes very limited in which unit he can attach the character though. Conceal gives the shrouded rule which gives +2 to cover saves but only targets the unit the model is in. And even then, a warlock is lvl 1 so would only know 1 power thats capable of that. It cant do both!

That said a spiritseer makes wraiths troops and is a lvl 2 psyker. That could (more or less) do what you listed. Hes pretty mundane in combat, he wounds on a 2+ but allows armor saves. He has no armor save but a 4+ invul save instead. He can however (and this is where I think things get mixed up) nomiate a unit during his movement phase with a token. All wraith units in his army (and he has a lot by the sound of it) reroll to hit rolls of 1 (so not all of them) against that unit. Range is 12 inches and he can do it at any time during his movement phase.

Other then that hes also a lvl 2 psyker that could do some things that explain the other mumbo jumbo.

then the barbie with big cannons

That sounds like the wraithknight basicly as expensive as a land raider (if he even takes a single upgrade on it, otherwise a tiny bit cheaper) and its otherwise the same as any large MC. While its big and scary it only has 4 attacks. If you got terminators, mephi or something simular nasty yourself it should dissapear no problem! 3+ save and toughness 8, so while you wont be instant killing it (except with forceweapon) it isent the end of the world. You just gotta be prepared for it he hits at I4 though so Mephi (specialy with powers activated) hits him on 3's, wounds on 2's and a single wound would allow you to zap him with the force weapon, effectivly killing him if you dident manage to do that with the wounds itself!

Id take the 2 assault squads, mephi, a pair of baals, vindi/combipred and if you got some points left at that stage (dont know how many points you play) add filler ontop of that tbh most of what you listed isent all that scary. The stormraven would be a nice counter as he doesent sound to have much anti-air.

What your opponent is (or sounds to be) taking are very elite eldar units. Theyre VERY expensive units points wise.Wraiths are nearly terminator levels expensive and got 12 inch ranged weaponry (or combat weapons) so if you disable his transports early are footslogging and unlikely to do much. I think its led by a spiritseer. (which would explain the +2 to cover and the ranged attack) In that case his wraiths would be troops! Some of the transports got dangerous weapon options (or maybe he has a fireprism) and that wraithknight is annoying but not unbeatable. Its an elite eldar army so few in numbers and every model is expensive.

Taking out the vehicles early is the key I feel and those things are a pain to take out. Not impossible but either requires luck or a great deal of firepower more then normal vehicles would require his troops you can easily kill in combat. His "combat" wraiths have no problem chewing through power armor but terminator armour or cheap scouts should be able to kill/delay them. The terminators could easily kill them and walk off to kill another unit!

Chin up brother, just adapt and try again to beat these foul xenos!

[Baba Lem]

Maybe it's an Autarch on Jetbike with Mantle of the Laughing God. He gets a 2+ re-rollable cover save after moving.

 

The Str 4 AP 2 flamer is a D-Scythe, Wraithguard can replace their D-Cannons with 'em, and although they're only Str 4, they keep the on-a-roll-of-six-you-die thing.

[Xenith]

Eldar farseer on a bike with mantle, guide and prescience. The 2+ cover save is also re-rollable. BA have the speed to potentially engage him in CC, or take a whirlwind, the Eldar's natural predator. Alternatively, for the time being, you can ally in a Rune Priest to ruin the Seer's day. The drop podding Fragioso will also do some damage to him, due to negating the cover save. You'll probably get 1-2 wounds on him. If you combine with Dante's curse, you may kill him T1.

 

The mantle also means he is no longer an independent character, so easily snipable.

 

You cannot mix the scythes (AP2 flamers) with the D Cannons (S10 AP2) in the same unit, so make sure your opponent isn't doing this. Although re-reading it, he has 2 flame units and 1 d cannon unit? I read that as one unit with the shields initially.

 

 

 

Placing objectives out of cover means they get at best a 5+ cover save, and you can apply demolisher shells to the affected area.

 

The best thing you can do regarding the DScythe wraithguard is to ignore them, or play games in the objective phase. You cannot shoot them, due to T6, 3+ and likely strong cover save.You cannot assault them as you immediately take on average 10 S4AP2 hits from wall of death. On average, Mephiston will die from a unit of these overwatching him.

 

They have a pathetic range, though. If they are on an objective, they have to leave it to attack you. If they aren't on an objective, then they are ignorable.

 

250pts mephiston will eat the Wraithknight in a single turn of combat. The big cannons only get 2 shots, so you can alternatively ignore it.

 

Eldar have a weak zone in their capability to deal with AV13. They can very easily glance AV12 to death, while AV14 is usually expensive enough to be able to trade a unit of fire dragons for its death. When you have lots of 125pt AV13 running around, the Eldar player is going to have a bad day.

 

These units will specifically defeat the Eldar (which is unsportsmanlike) but also make a decent army in their own right:

 

Mehpiston

Baal

Baal

AutoLas

AutoLas

4xML devs

tactical squad

Assault squad.

6 sniper scouts, cloaks

Fragioso (pod)

 

The Eldar have weak anti aircraft, so swapping one of the AutoLas preds for a Stormraven will be strong.

 

Sniper scouts are vulnerable to flamers, but eldar have no way of getting flamers that close, reliably. They will keep an objective.

 

Take out the serpents first.

[teblin]

The Wraithknight can indeed be toppled by the likes of Mephi in CC, but the point is to stay out of CC with it unless it's a fight you know you can win (and not get tarpitted).

 

The Wraithknight is a jump model, so it can avoid units it doesn't want to fight in CC.

[AngryCanadian]

Just to make sure your opponent is doing things correctly. Is he firing the gun that makes everything TLed first?Also: he only rerolls the to hit rolls for the model with the actual model. NOT for everyone or simular vehicles... Some guys at my local GW had a trouble grasping that little detail...The gun that makes everything TLed is an eldar laser weapon. If its on a transport its mostly like a scatter laser (S6 but only AP6 so allows armor) and with 4 twin linked shots hes unlikely to miss all shots (only works if you have at least 1 hit) On the plus side, if he takes that on the transport he only (im assuming wave serpent here btw) has a twin linked shuriken catapult or cannon as the 2nd weapon, which isent all that scary.... The smaller transport one (falcon) has a 2 shot S8AP2 gun which is a little more dangerous.

 

Yes hes using the wave serpents with the shield

3 of them, each with 5 man Wraithguard (hes not mixing weapons, 2 squad have ap2 flamers)

If he uses his crazy shield thing as a gun does he then also use it to well...shield his vehicle? Because the shield thing is either the one or the other. Something a few people at my GW try to overlook, or simply dont read the entire ruling of it...

no he's TLing the shield, then shooting side armour, you know the 1/2" thats visable because the side sponsons dont let the hulls go flush against each other

and it ignores cover

 

Eldar farseer on a bike with mantle, guide and prescience. The 2+ cover save is also re-rollable.

Thats the one i think (i hate eldar, i mean the look of them, playstyle nothing intrests me from them)

 

 

really its those stupid ap2 flamers, he will keep the squad inside till its ready to kill something, if i do pop it with something that unit is dead

 

So next im going to paint my hammernators and LRC, thanks for the replys

 

Had a bad game last night, was tabled turn 4, and didnt kill a single model

(could be cause i gave up half way through and DS'ed between 2 of his serpents)

 

I did make a grey knight player quit turn 2 with almost the same army, so it wasn't that bad of a night

[Drunken Angel]

Both the Wraithlord 3+ and Wraithknight 3+ are T8 models three wounds and five wounds respectively.  Dont discount Sternguard and their Swiss army knife special issue ammo, 

Monstrous creature with toughness = Hellfire rounds wound anything on a 2+  sure he gets a save but the T8 pixie ogre is not looking so comfortable now

Rangers/Tau pathfinders in cover = Dragonfire bolter rounds ignore all cover saves

Wraith guard out in the open from spilled Wave serpents also fall to Hellfire rounds they dont have the range to shoot back either as they do not have the run shoot rule of Battle focus.

 

Deploy either with a droppod or in a dedicated transport throw in a combi melta or 2 for rear armour shots, remember the serpent shield only protects front and side armour and you are good to go.  The beauty of Sternguard is that they are never a bad choice in any list you just need to consider where and when you deploy them.

 

The scatter laser has the laser lock rule which only twinlinks the weapons on the model using it, the rule does not benefit other models shooting.

 

With the increase in Montrous Creatures from Tau and Eldar armies.  Sternguard and snipers who are both useful against them may see more use.

[eetdestroyer]

i cant figure out how to beat this army

 

a single gun on bike who give out 2 bonus (a 12" TL on another unit, and a 24" one too) and a 2+ cover save by some trickery

 

Sounds like a Farseer. Which is not a Spiritseer, and he needs a Spiritseer to make Wraithguard troops.

 

 

If you manage to get a wraith squad out in the open I could imagine the Dante + Plasmaguad (honour guard w. 4 plasma guns) would take out a unit a turn inside 12", or stay at 24" where the enemy guns are useless. The Vindicator is also good for this, just what out for the Wraithknight.

 

Speaking of Wriathkight, as has been mentioned sternguard, sniper scouts and ML devs are descent counters. So is Meph, but maneuvering is important since the Wraith is just as fast (if not faster) than he is- Storm Raven delivery system perhaps? 

 

 

In the end it looks like this is only about 1500 points? Which doesn't give you much room to take every option you can. Focus on taking out the Farseer (he's the backbone of the army), then knock out the Serpents and use your speed to stay out of range of the wraithguard.

 

The last and best piece of advice I can give is to get to grips with the opponents book, if you have a GW get the open copy and check all his rules. Sites like BOLS and 3++ also have good codex reviews/tactics articles which spell out exactly what units can do if you want to do research at home.

 

Good luck \m/

[Pyro X]

One thing I was looking at doing was using a librarian w/ sanguine sword for str 10 and a force sword and instance kill wrathknights. It seems like a good fix if you can soak up its damage.

[goobybls]

I have been using drop pod honour guard x 4 plasma and a libby for prescience vs my eldar opponent about 4 games now.  Frustrated him to no end, if you drop pod next to wraithguard with this tactic, you won't make it to the next turn.  We've play tested it a bunch and that's about the only option he has to counter with.