Teetengee Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I wonder, might we see basic daemon weapons in that wargear section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 On the GW site they have put up the presentation of the Supplement. The only thing worth notice is that the author writes that the supplement will contain advanced rules for the Chaos Terminators... ...please o Dark Gods, make my terminators troops, please oh please, I will be good and sacrifice you a thousand souls every day for it... Lets see: "additional rules for chaos terminators". That's promising. Whether it's a troop option, or a fancy retinue for Yabba Dabba, or really anything, I'm pretty excited for that. Also, we have confirmation that there will be new warlord traits, which previously was only speculation based on the previous supplements. Oh, and pics of some of Ángel González's Black Legion models. Pretty nice, though I still don't like the mutilator models. It's funny how widely my feelings sway with even minor hints of this books' rules, even though I don't really expect them to be all that significant one way or another. required vets for troop chosen? Well, at least I'll still get some fluff, even if I end up sticking to the primary book. "Additional" rules for terminators? OMG, MUST HAVE NAOW. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeroed Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Surely just a hint towards your favourite units, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Hey, I love Chosen, conceptually. And the DV models are the best chaos marine models in the entire range, forgeworld included, putting everything else to shame. I would love to run armies of chosen. But they're just kinda bad, and the things they need to not be so bad aren't likely to be found in a supplement book. Making them troops certainly doesn't do it. Termies on the other hand? They're not great, but their certainly fieldable. It would take very little to make them good, and even purely cosmetic options could still see play. Then again, the vets requirement hits termies exceptionally hard - being cheap is the main thing they have going for themselves, and an extra 3 points per model for vets really does start to undermine that limited advantage, so anything the supplement does throw their way would be greatly appreciated. It would be sad if one of the chaos legions most know for characteristic terminator use (even if they aren't known for fielding entire armies thereof), stopped fielding terminators entirely because of the vets requirement. Then again, it would be a stark testiment to the foolishness of making units pay a la cart for special rules that should have been universal for the faction in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Well, forcing them to be veterans is an additional rule, is it not? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 That is a worst case scenario, sure, but I really don't think they'd be calling that out specifically that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeroed Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I agree with your sentiment about both chosen and terminators.. lovely units, exactly what I want my army to be like, actually.. too bad they're so bad (or half-bad, in case of termies) as competitive choices.. I wouldn't even mind the Vet-tax if they would be a halfway decent unit to begin with.. I'd pick a unit I like that costs more and doesn't suck any day over a unit I don't like but performs better - but at the end of the day, if those lovely units get their backs handed to them by a bunch of little blue aliens (no, not smurfs), I tend to reconsider the deal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The Terminator has been my favorite game model, game type and trick to use in battle. I LOVE to Deep Strike with my terminators and I love to see them in every games as stars. They are not overpowered but sure they are one of the most balanced units in our codex. Every mark is worth on them, every power weapon, combiweapon, everything bar the Icon of Despair is useful on them. I do not play Deathwing since I do not love to see that many terminators, neither I stomach well the DW fluff, but in every single chaos army list I have done from day 1 of the codex, a token force of terminators was always present. They are not gamechangers but sure as hell I like to see them come from the reserves and Deep Strike where they are needed. Even if they do something for the Deep Strike, or give the more kit it is still a great improvement for surely they are the unit that is most varied in our book. I use them, I abuse them and I LOVE them, so everything that has something to do with chaos terminator makes my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 ADB: I might argue with you on the concept of a 'black community', at least within the context of US society & culture. A considerable history of race-based oppression, and the ongoing systemic racism that is its legacy within the united states has something of a unifying influence. It is my experience that many black people within the US see themselves as a distinct and separate group, because US society at large has traditionally and continues to today treat them as such. And this is above and beyond typical cultural markers and practices that have traditionally created and supported 'Irish communities' and 'Chinese communities' and 'Jewish communities' and 'Italian communities' and so on among other ethnic groups. 'Race' may not be a real or meaningful thing biologically or genetically, but it is certainly a real thing socially and culturally, especially in the US, where histories of race-based genocide, chattel slavery, and white supremacy are still powerfully reflected in modern conditions and institutions. More on topic, While the tournament playing subset of the GW fanbase is a minority - a niche of a niche - they are especially vocal and active online. This shouldn't be surprising, as internet forums and comment boards are a format well suited to debating tactics and optimization and army lists. They're far better suited to that aspect of the hobby than to any other. You can post pics of your latest conversion or paint job or a summary of a battle report, and you might get a couple compliments or a tip or two, but then all that there is to say has been said, and the thread quickly falls off the top page. On the other hand, come onto a board with an argument about how 'heldrakes are broken' or 'possessed suck', and you can spark a debate that might go back and forth for several pages, and stay on the top of the board for days or weeks. The important thing to note is that the visibility of the tournament crowd makes them important for word of mouth, especially in today's world where social media buzz can really matter. People go online, google things, and seek out discussion when they're making decisions about how to spend their limited leisure time and money. If they think, say, Tomb Kings or Tyranids or Chaos Marines look cool, but then the online discussion is stagnant and somewhat negative, then they may end up choosing another faction, or worse skipping the game entirely. So while I agree that the tournament crew is a fraction of a fraction, they're still a fairly important subset of the community that GW would do well to cater to, much as wizards caters to the tournament community in magic the gathering. That's actually running close to the very overstating I was talking about - overstating the influence of forums and tournament gamers' opinion. I'm the first person to say we're the loudest and proudest subfaction; I even said it above in the initial post. But in the past, you have statements like The Jeske saying how no one plays Chaos, and a few anecdotal tales of some people seeing fewer Chaos armies... but it's irrelevant in the bigger picture. Everything that numerous insiders across several companies and stockists have said to me directly counter that "tournament/forums matter" presumption. No Chaos sales suffered at all, on the front lines. No matter how much a few dozen people on B&C hated the last codex (just using B&C as an example, not implying that was the limit of the codex's criticism) - partly because their voices aren't as loud as they believed, and partly because most players don't analyse the game to the same degree we all do. We're a fraction of an already small percentage. We see our voices written out in text a lot, and we surround ourselves with those who agree or disagree with us - but either way, they're as loud as we are. It's easy to fall into the assumption that, therefore, we matter disproportionately. And we don't. It's not an insult to say it, but it is what it is. People think authors, companies, musicians, etc. ignore forums because they're technologically stunted or can't take criticism. They ignore forums because forums are an infinitesimal representation of any fanbase (and a skewed hardcore representation, rather than an average fan), no matter how loud they claim to be, or how bonded as a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Then again, it would be a stark testiment to the foolishness of making units pay a la cart for special rules that should have been universal for the faction in the first place. A la carte. It's French :). It's funny how widely my feelings sway with even minor hints of this books' rules, even though I don't really expect them to be all that significant one way or another. required vets for troop chosen? Well, at least I'll still get some fluff, even if I end up sticking to the primary book. "Additional" rules for terminators? OMG, MUST HAVE NAOW. Yeah, you've been super vocal about the Chosen thingy. I was kinda surprised, as I don't mind VOTLW on everything because it's already on everything I own. But I guess you're just passionate about the supplement, which is something I understand and experience right now (Terminators with a twist ? Hell, I've waited so long for something like that). 150 pages of Black Legion love. Gotta be happy. And sad of the Apple crap, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Just passionate about the supplement, and bitter about the cost of an upgrade that seems like it should have been included in the base cost of all the units that can take it. I can handle it on the units where it only costs a point, but on things like chosen and terminators and especially raptors (which would have had a hard enough time being compared to bikes already even without having to pay more points for vets than they do), it really does feel kind of egregious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 And it probably is. Even more so when you consider ATSKNF. But I stopped playing with point costs a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I don't want to debate whether or not Chaos is a minority, a vocal minority, or whatever.... I just can't wait to see this supplement. I am bursting with chaos... no wait... that might have been gas... to see this thing. My only fear is it is just a novelette with pictures. I don't expect it to be game breaking, but for 60 bucks, and the title of 'supplement' I really hope it isn't a let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 And it probably is. Even more so when you consider ATSKNF. But I stopped playing with point costs a long time ago. You see, I just don't buy this... I've had the lack of ATSKNF help me much more than it's hurt me, though that could be part of my local meta. I honestly can't think of anything more frustrating than when my squad of marines gets cut down to 2-3 guys against a Trygon, then just sits there in combat, preventing me from shooting the thing apart with Plasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 And it probably is. Even more so when you consider ATSKNF. But I stopped playing with point costs a long time ago. You see, I just don't buy this... I've had the lack of ATSKNF help me much more than it's hurt me, though that could be part of my local meta. I honestly can't think of anything more frustrating than when my squad of marines gets cut down to 2-3 guys against a Trygon, then just sits there in combat, preventing me from shooting the thing apart with Plasma. Except ATSKNF doesn't stop this. It makes marines auto regroup after falling back and ignore sweeping advances. In a sense it is better than fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 the supplement will contain advanced rules for the Chaos Terminators... Optimism boosted by 16%. I really want a CSM way to play my Lord's Terminator bodyguard as the heart of an army list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 And it probably is. Even more so when you consider ATSKNF. But I stopped playing with point costs a long time ago. You see, I just don't buy this... I've had the lack of ATSKNF help me much more than it's hurt me, though that could be part of my local meta. I honestly can't think of anything more frustrating than when my squad of marines gets cut down to 2-3 guys against a Trygon, then just sits there in combat, preventing me from shooting the thing apart with Plasma. Except ATSKNF doesn't stop this. It makes marines auto regroup after falling back and ignore sweeping advances. In a sense it is better than fearless. If marines would be swept, they remain in combat instead. A marine squad first must fail the LD test (or choose to fail if they're truly vanilla), then they must roll a D6 plus their init, and beat (not tie) the opponent doing the same. If none of that happens, then the squad stays in combat and keeps that Trygon from being shot at, because of the ATSKNF rule. The auto-regroup after falling back is awesome sure, but I've experienced the problems with ATSKNF far more often than I'd like. I'd gladly have my marine squad get swept in combat so that I can shoot at something, than have them last a turn longer in a combat that they'll inevitably lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 @Gree, there'll probably be very large amount of fluff, true but even basing off previous supplements they were like 30 pages shorter than this one. The terminator rumor sounds awesome. Although it would sound even more awesome if I didn't just read about the rumored centurion rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 http://www.thediceabide.com/stuff/uncletouchy.jpg So uhh... hell yes? Lord of Tzeentch on disk with 3++ and this thing... I call him Uncle Bad Touch. PS - This is from the iTunes page, I didn't do anything bad, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Looks interesting, but still only one attack....might be best on a DA to ensure you don't miss with his hatred.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 That wasn't even in the sample........... What the flip iTunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Ooh! Hey Mali, I think I just found out what happens to the Black legion "failures": http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication6/v4/6c/40/31/6c403157-4bfe-99bc-35db-1c33c06e2f17/2013-08-12_17.59.54.480x480-75.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 No.. I would rather use a force sword I think. That's a little too high cost/high risk for me to want to use. And it's very rare that I'd see an HQ or MC that'd be worth that weapon -because- if it's tough enough for you to -need- to use that, it's init is about 5 points higher than your sorc, who was red paste by the time the Hammer of Wrath attack hit. Sure, you could roll time warp and iron arm blah blah. Other topic. I too would really appreciate a rule set that could allow for terminators to be somewhere around the vicinity of good (from a competition min/max standpoint). Seeing as how our elites are somewhat lacking, while we have good options almost everywhere else. Only problem being that this is already a plasma or blob squad meta, which are both bad for terminators. Something to make basic cultists even better.. like a well deserved cost reduction.. would be a game changer. As far as I can guess, even if we did have good terminators for some reason I can't really speculate on, it wouldn't seriously change our game. It's just too small a peice. All that said, I am looking foreward to seeing what spins out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 On the other hand, it is an answer for those dastardly forced challenges for the HQs that can't use a Force sword. And better yet, I don't see anything that says one-time use only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The idea that Terminators get a tweak of some sort has me very excited..... Terminators (chaos especially) have been my favorite models to paint, and game with since I started playing this game. I currently never run less than 3 in any game I play. So this is very cool. I can't help thinking Abaddon needs a new model (non-FW) so badly! He's always described as the biggest/baddest and he's literally a midget standing beside the modern Termies. But anyway, that is awesome news. Can't wait to hear more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.