And the Supplement for CSM is....

[Brother Ambroz]

 

Hmm, A MoS lord with it would hit before all the Tyranid's MC's except for the Hive Tyrant/swarmlord, they'd be swinging together at I5.

 

Was this a mistype or was his whole math incorrect? A MoS lord would be I6....

[Tenebris]

Hmm those numbers do not look good. Sure it is a powerful weapon, too bad that the HQ using it is far from powerful to actually use it properly. With the Hand I have the same problem as I do with most of the stuff like special characters, uber upgrades and the like, too many eggs in a too small and often inadequate basket. In a game due to fair play you show to your opponent your list, and if he is something like the smart average guy/gal he will spot this insanely pricey thing on your Lord (here the Apostle suggestion might actually be very legit). Now in my case my first reaction would be, ok I have to stay away with my pricey units or special characters from that model, as far away as possible. The second thing that would pass my mind would be a simple analysis, which HQ carries this weapon, what armor save the model has and how can I kill this model from range. If I have a weapon to do that (usually I do in the form of an Obliterator) than I will maneuver around the said model and took my chances shooting it with something solid. Unless it is Eternal Warrior it is dead quite soon.

 

Well this is my mentality, my forma mentis, I identify, I study, I kill...if I can, if not I move around. By doing so I can effectively counter such an unit. Damn I would even solve the problem with a cheap squad of cultist so those attacks go to waste. 

 

Now as I have said, the Hand looks a nice substitute for the chain/claw Lord, it would make him a fearsome thing but when you calculate a bit the points, wouldn't be wiser to simply have more HQ's rather than one single powerful HQ? If we can ally with the Black Legion for me it is an additional Sorcerer almost an auto include... and it cost me only 10 points more, 10 points more for two wounds, a force weapon and a way to deliver yet another Psychic Shriek, a thing that actually has a chance to do some nasty damage. 

[40kChrista]

Ooh! Hey Mali, I think I just found out what happens to the Black legion "failures":

 

http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Publication6/v4/6c/40/31/6c403157-4bfe-99bc-35db-1c33c06e2f17/2013-08-12_17.59.54.480x480-75.jpg

 

Looks like I found a purpose for those Iron Hands  bits I got ages ago... sweet... no bit left behind!

[RapatoR]

Hmm those numbers do not look good. Sure it is a powerful weapon, too bad that the HQ using it is far from powerful to actually use it properly. With the Hand I have the same problem as I do with most of the stuff like special characters, uber upgrades and the like, too many eggs in a too small and often inadequate basket. In a game due to fair play you show to your opponent your list, and if he is something like the smart average guy/gal he will spot this insanely pricey thing on your Lord (here the Apostle suggestion might actually be very legit). Now in my case my first reaction would be, ok I have to stay away with my pricey units or special characters from that model, as far away as possible. The second thing that would pass my mind would be a simple analysis, which HQ carries this weapon, what armor save the model has and how can I kill this model from range. If I have a weapon to do that (usually I do in the form of an Obliterator) than I will maneuver around the said model and took my chances shooting it with something solid. Unless it is Eternal Warrior it is dead quite soon.

 

Well this is my mentality, my forma mentis, I identify, I study, I kill...if I can, if not I move around. By doing so I can effectively counter such an unit. Damn I would even solve the problem with a cheap squad of cultist so those attacks go to waste. 

 

And therein lies the answer. Its similar to Murder sword: Instead of a one-trick pony to be used, imagine it as 50 point 12" bubble of "scaring big things away". It restricts opponent deployment/movement options and gives you an initiative. And if opponent decides to dedicate portion of his forces to shut this bubble down, then fine. Again you are forcing opponent to do something about it, so initiative is yours.

[daboarder]

So, been thinking too much on the drive home with work. I think my perfect idea for this supplement would be the following.

 

HQ:

Exalted Aspiring champions, 1-3 per slot, 40p a pop, can buy terminator armour (combi, PW) for 40 pts. Access to wargear but NOT relics. Ws5 and 2W, fearless. 

 

Challenge characters that give a little boost to the squad (be it Power armour, termies or cultists) and can readilly accept challenges from sergeants and the like without going toe-to-toe with the bigger combat builds you can see (at least until they get a few boon rolls)

 

Elites: either a text box making Terminators scoring in a black legion primary detatchment OR a wolfguard re-write of chosen so I can buy them termi armour

 

warlords traits and relics as whatever.

[Vesper]

I've always wondered. Why is the Black Legion using the Eye of Horus as its heraldry  ?

[Sception]

I hope we get some fluff specifically addressing that fact, yeah.  There are several ways they could go - it's the eye of terror, not of horus; or a further reminder of the shame of their past failure, as with the black armor in the first place.  I don't know.

[Xenith]

I've always wondered. Why is the Black Legion using the Eye of Horus as its heraldry  ?

 

They spent all their money on black paint, and couldn't afford the graphic designer fees to come up with a new legion symbol?

[daveNYC]

 

I've always wondered. Why is the Black Legion using the Eye of Horus as its heraldry  ?

 

They spent all their money on black paint, and couldn't afford the graphic designer fees to come up with a new legion symbol?

 

Affording one isn't the problem.  After what happened to the last one at the presentation to Abaddon and his Chosen, they just can't fine one that wants the job.

[Brother Aiwass]

What happened? Blue Screen of Death?

[Xenith]

What happened? Blue Screen of Death?

 

The guy read the job advert wrong.

 

It actually said

"need a lackey of the false emperor someone to adorn our tanks, graphically"

[Vesper]

I hope we get some fluff specifically addressing that fact, yeah.  There are several ways they could go - it's the eye of terror, not of horus; or a further reminder of the shame of their past failure, as with the black armor in the first place.  I don't know.

I demand an AD-B answer !

[Biaz]

I've always wondered. Why is the Black Legion using the Eye of Horus as its heraldry  ?

 

In my mind they painted their armour black due to their shame at fleeing the battle of Terra, rather than the shame that Horus died. After all, Horus 1v1'ed Emps IRL and gibbed him hard, thats a pretty proud moment - it's more than any of the other Primarchs have done. So my personal explanation was they kept the Eye 1) Because it looks badass, and 2) They aren't ashamed of Horus, they're ashamed of themselves.

 

Except perhaps Abaddon, but then you guys have posted a lot of indepth  thoughts on Abaddon here over the last week that has even changed my view on that. Regardless, I'm sure GW will come up with something even worse ;)

[Urauloth]

I always assumed it now represented the eye of terror (especially since it usually has 8 points now instead of the original one) but who knows.

 

I kinda wish they'd kept some of their old luna wolf iconography hanging around, even if it was just peripheral. I liked that.

[Vesper]

I also like Chtonian runes a lot. They look great, and some of my legionnaires still put these on their tanks.

[Brother Aiwass]

I've always wondered. Why is the Black Legion using the Eye of Horus as its heraldry ?

In my mind they painted their armour black due to their shame at fleeing the battle of Terra, rather than the shame that Horus died. After all, Horus 1v1'ed Emps IRL and gibbed him hard, thats a pretty proud moment - it's more than any of the other Primarchs have done. So my personal explanation was they kept the Eye 1) Because it looks badass, and 2) They aren't ashamed of Horus, they're ashamed of themselves.

Except perhaps Abaddon, but then you guys have posted a lot of indepth thoughts on Abaddon here over the last week that has even changed my view on that. Regardless, I'm sure GW will come up with something even worse

This is for me the reason of the Eye as well. But maybe we can add a line at the end of the first paragraph: "they're ashamed of Abbadon" :lol:

[Slayer le Boucher]

something interessting from faeit.

 

 

With the way recent rumors have been flowing, a
future of how and what models are going to be coming is becoming
clear. Things like Cult Terminators.... (a new way of fielding existing
units) seems to be on the horizon. This opens up a ton of options and
variable units that we could be seeing in upcoming supplement releases.



Yesterday's rumors were very enlightening. Variants of existing units
will likely start appearing in codex supplements in the near future. We
have been told in the past, that Games Workshop started off first with
the easiest of choices for codex supplements, meaning they started with
ones that were the easiest to introduce with very small changes or
variation to the parent codex. In the future supplements would be
pushing that envelope and moving to eventually releasing models
alongside a release.

The
Supplements will often introduce new ways to configure units.  Either
with different wargear, size of squad, force organization position,
dedicated transport options, or cool army rules.

The
idea here is that people shouldn't feel like they have to get a
supplement.  Anything that's in a supplement, they have access to (model
wise).  No one is left out.


This for me is just exciting, as it opens up a huge box of
possibilities for future releases. I think its a very smart move on the
side of Games Workshop, as things as simple as tank variations can
easily be added to the game with little effort.

As always a
game with options and variability are huge for me. Nothing worse than
showing up at a tournament and seeing just slight variations of the
same thing on every table. "So how did your Grey Knights do....... ah,
about the same as mine".

Getting to see these options and how
they can play out in the future also just opens up the game, and allows
so much to the creative modeler out there, that for years to come it
will be exciting just to see what is being fielded when you show up at a
tourney.

If this is a clear vision of the future of Warhammer 40k. Good job GW.

[Iron_Within]

The reason why the Sons of Horus became the Black Legion isn't because of a singular point. They remained the SoH for some time after Terra. They were broken, they had lost their Primarch, they had gambled big and lost it all, they'd retreated, and were grieving. Then the wars came, the other Legions blamed the Sons of Horus for the loss at Terra, and the final indignity was heaped upon them; the body of Horus was taken. His body was taken, experimented on, cloned (suggested it was by Fabius Bile). It was the final indignity that broke the Sons of Horus. In the ashes of defeat, leaderless, fracturing, Abaddon arose from the ranks to recover the body of Horus, which he did, and then destroyed it and in that act symbolised the rebirth of the Legion; the Black Legion, anointed in hate, bitterness and revenge.

In short, the Black Legion came about due to them completing their grieving over Horus dying.

 

And a point earlier. I don't think with the background of the legion there is anything stopping you from doing a Sons of Horus 40k Chaos Warband. Undoubtedly not every Son became a member of the Black Legion. 

[Sception]

So...  the ipad version's out tomorrow.  Is anybody here planning to pick it up, who could take some time to answer questions?  I'd do it, but, lacking an ipad, I'm stuck waiting for the ebook release in september.

[Vesper]

Was about to post the exact same thing, Mali.

I desperatly want some answer !

[A D-B]

The reason why the Sons of Horus became the Black Legion isn't because of a singular point. They remained the SoH for some time after Terra. They were broken, they had lost their Primarch, they had gambled big and lost it all, they'd retreated, and were grieving. Then the wars came, the other Legions blamed the Sons of Horus for the loss at Terra, and the final indignity was heaped upon them; the body of Horus was taken. His body was taken, experimented on, cloned (suggested it was by Fabius Bile). It was the final indignity that broke the Sons of Horus. In the ashes of defeat, leaderless, fracturing, Abaddon arose from the ranks to recover the body of Horus, which he did, and then destroyed it and in that act symbolised the rebirth of the Legion; the Black Legion, anointed in hate, bitterness and revenge.

In short, the Black Legion came about due to them completing their grieving over Horus dying.

 

That's certainly the theme running strong through the first novel, though it should be noted that it's disillusioned members from all of the Nine Legions that are part of its founding. I tend to think the key is in remembering the Black Legion aren't just the Sons of Horus with a new coat of paint. They're the best and worst of all Space Marine-based interaction with Chaos, united by their hatred and ambition over any older, weaker bonds of loyalty or meaningless bonds of bloodline. Their unifying factor is Abaddon, and he absolutely despises Horus, as well as the Legion that took Horus's name.

 

While the Nine Legions were fighting each other, the Black Legion rose above notions of bloodline and old grudges, and remembered there was a more important war to win. 

 

And a point earlier. I don't think with the background of the legion there is anything stopping you from doing a Sons of Horus 40k Chaos Warband. Undoubtedly not every Son became a member of the Black Legion. 

 

While I'll never try to categorically ruin anyone's army, or ever suggest any truly unbreakable absolute in the lore... there will come a war between the dying Sons of Horus and the newborn Black Legion, and it won't be hard to guess which side wins.

[Marshal Rohr]

So, the 'new direction' Black Legion is essentially Caesar's Legion from Fallout New Vegas?

[Vesper]

AD-B, how do you explain the use of the Eye of Horus as the Black Legion's heraldry ?

[Marshal Rohr]

AD-B, how do you explain the use of the Eye of Horus as the Black Legion's heraldry ?

 

 

They dont have WD40 (or French equivalent, for personal relevance ;) ) in the Eye of Terror?

[Sception]

As long as that victory is not so absolute that there are no Sons of Horus who escape, the option for such a warband will remain.

 

I'm quite eager to read this new perspective on Abaddon.  It sounds somewhat different from my own.  I always imagined that Abaddon's hatred of Horus was at least in part feigned, that he still worshipped his father, but had to bring himself to reject Horus openly because that rejection of the past was needed to raise the broken remnants of his legion from their grief and despair.  Spitting on Horus's legacy, but only to save it.  After all, it is still revenge that drives him, and he still carries Horus's talon into battle.  He still holds a special hatred for the blood angels, on account of their primarch opening the gap in horus's armor that the emperor was able to exploit, killing him.  I always imagined that when Abaddon finally choked the life from the Emperor's withered husk with his father's taloned gauntlet, that he would do so with a whispered 'for Horus' on his lips.

 

But that's just me.  A more sincere rejection works too, just so long as we get a definitive version of Abaddon who comes of as more intelligent and menacing then a Saturday morning cartoon villain, so that we can finally put this 'failbaddon' business to bed.