And the Supplement for CSM is....

[Dorrance]

Yea the whole shame thing is not how I see the black legion. I see it as more primal  (fitting in to their Cthonic heratige).

 

Mongols had white horse banners for when they were at war and black for when they were at war.

A more modern interpetation from Jolly Rogers to the Civil War was the black ment that no quarter will be given.

Of course you have radical islam and fringe radical zionoist groups using the black flag as their banner to war/

 

So for all the other reasons yea I guess but there is also the more primal meaning of "oh its on now" / "you should have killed me when you had the chance / "suck brick kid"

 

Thats what  I cling to.

[A D-B]

So, the 'new direction' Black Legion is essentially Caesar's Legion from Fallout New Vegas?

 

Without Goggling, I 'unno, dude. Not played the Fallout series since a few minutes on 3, where I promptly did that sneeringly, stupidly shallow "THIS ISN'T LIKE THE OLD HEAVY RPG DAYS OF ONE AND TWO, YOU YOUNG VARMINTS" and went back to WoW, GoW, DoW, and whatever else that probably rhymes with "ow".

 

But overall, I was a good boy. I have every single published word of Black Legion lore, ever, blu-tacked on my office wall or scattered around in photocopies, if they're not in a codex I already own.

 

 

AD-B, how do you explain the use of the Eye of Horus as the Black Legion's heraldry ?

 

I use words, Vesp. Vague, irritating words to dodge my way out of difficult questions.

 

You can see it in action right now. No charge.

[Dorrance]

So...  the ipad version's out tomorrow.  Is anybody here planning to pick it up, who could take some time to answer questions?  I'd do it, but, lacking an ipad, I'm stuck waiting for the ebook release in september.

 

 

I got ya covered. I'm currently in afghanistan so I have tons of time haha ( it might take all day to download on american sensored interwebs)

 

[Rayray]

 

So...  the ipad version's out tomorrow.  Is anybody here planning to pick it up, who could take some time to answer questions?  I'd do it, but, lacking an ipad, I'm stuck waiting for the ebook release in september.

 

 

I got ya covered. I'm currently in afghanistan so I have tons of time haha ( it might take all day to download on american sensored interwebs)

 

I just want to know if it is worth getting when it drops on ipad, or is it just another wait for the hard back.

[Marshal Rohr]

Caeser's Legion was basically a tribe that would assimilate the other wasteland tribes, break them up, and spread them out into his army to break up ties of loyalty.

 

I had never given any thought to the Black Legion being a brand new entity created by members from all the Legions and not Sons of Horus with a repaint.

 

 

But, Im not a Chaos player, so I wont be burning up any bandwidth to tell the e-world how mad I am if something about the book isn't identical to something written two decades ago. Im still trying to find a way to get to England so I can put on a sackclothh shirt, cover myself is ash, and wail in front of Games Workshop HQ until I get a personal apology from Cruddace.

[Sception]

 

So...  the ipad version's out tomorrow.  Is anybody here planning to pick it up, who could take some time to answer questions?  I'd do it, but, lacking an ipad, I'm stuck waiting for the ebook release in september.

 

 

I got ya covered. I'm currently in afghanistan so I have tons of time haha ( it might take all day to download on american sensored interwebs)

 

 

Awsome, thanks!

[A D-B]

Caeser's Legion was basically a tribe that would assimilate the other wasteland tribes, break them up, and spread them out into his army to break up ties of loyalty.

 

I had never given any thought to the Black Legion being a brand new entity created by members from all the Legions and not Sons of Horus with a repaint.

 

 

But, Im not a Chaos player, so I wont be burning up any bandwidth to tell the e-world how mad I am if something about the book isn't identical to something written two decades ago. Im still trying to find a way to get to England so I can put on a sackclothh shirt, cover myself is ash, and wail in front of Games Workshop HQ until I get a personal apology from Cruddace.

 

 

Naw, it's still very similar. It's more Mongol / Khanate of the Golden Horde / Saxon warband / Viking warband / Celtic warband vibe than anything else (which it sounds like the Fallout series reflects, too). I've got sources that cite how the Black Legion is a mix of everything and anything, rather than purely (or even mostly, as that would be impossible) the Sons of Horus. It's not a particularly new concept, but like a lot of 40K lore, it's not been at the forefront in terms of what gets talked about a lot, especially as there's a gamer tendency to see things as clear-cut and delineated as in the rulebooks. 

 

The limited 3.5 IA article rules, for example. But they're remembered with great affection (and rightly so) because despite their limitations and practically arbitrary army list modifiers, they gave character, and it was nice to be able to say "I play Iron Warriors" with the rules backing you up, rather than just your paint scheme and army background. It didn't matter that they represented the legions poorly. They were lauded for existing at all, and accordingly the perception of what a Legion was became very... narrow... among a lot of players. Any time you try to say "A Legion works only like this" you're almost always going to be wrong, because Legions are thousands and thousands of men, with their own agendas, blessings, curses, leaders, ambitions, living in mythological Hell where time doesn't exist. They work in a million ways. You can suggest themes and tropes, for sure, but you can't slap a half-page box of text and say with a straight face that this is the only way those armies run.

 

Same kinda thing, here. How the outward perception is very focused on a certain slice of lore, rather than every mention. It's only natural, but it's my job to look at it all, or I'm screwing up and not doing 40K justice.

 

The Sons were the majority of the Black Legion's founders, no doubt there. But not the entirety. After all, they were practically extinct in comparison to the other Legions, after the Legion Wars / Slave Wars.

[Vesper]

 

AD-B, how do you explain the use of the Eye of Horus as the Black Legion's heraldry ?

 

I use words, Vesp. Vague, irritating words to dodge my way out of difficult questions.

 

You can see it in action right now. No charge.

Haha, I was expecting that kind of answer.

Will this perticular subject be developed in your Black Legion series ? Or in the supplement ? (Don't know if I'm forcing you to get off-limits, if that's the case, let's agree on the fact that The Black Legion uses the Eye of Horus for the sole reason they were lacking black paint to cover it up).

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Caeser's Legion was basically a tribe that would assimilate the other wasteland tribes, break them up, and spread them out into his army to break up ties of loyalty.

I had never given any thought to the Black Legion being a brand new entity created by members from all the Legions and not Sons of Horus with a repaint.

But, Im not a Chaos player, so I wont be burning up any bandwidth to tell the e-world how mad I am if something about the book isn't identical to something written two decades ago. Im still trying to find a way to get to England so I can put on a sackclothh shirt, cover myself is ash, and wail in front of Games Workshop HQ until I get a personal apology from Cruddace.

 

 

Naw, it's still very similar. It's more Mongol / Khanate of the Golden Horde / Saxon warband / Viking warband / Celtic warband vibe than anything else (which it sounds like the Fallout series reflects, too). I've got sources that cite how the Black Legion is a mix of everything and anything, rather than purely (or even mostly, as that would be impossible) the Sons of Horus. It's not a particularly new concept, but like a lot of 40K lore, it's not been at the forefront in terms of what gets talked about a lot, especially as there's a gamer tendency to see things as clear-cut and delineated as in the rulebooks. 

 

The limited 3.5 IA article rules, for example. But they're remembered with great affection (and rightly so) because despite their limitations and practically arbitrary army list modifiers, they gave character, and it was nice to be able to say "I play Iron Warriors" with the rules backing you up, rather than just your paint scheme and army background. It didn't matter that they represented the legions poorly. They were lauded for existing at all, and accordingly the perception of what a Legion was became very... narrow... among a lot of players. Any time you try to say "A Legion works only like this" you're almost always going to be wrong, because Legions are thousands and thousands of men, with their own agendas, blessings, curses, leaders, ambitions, living in mythological Hell where time doesn't exist. They work in a million ways. You can suggest themes and tropes, for sure, but you can't slap a half-page box of text and say with a straight face that this is the only way those armies run.

 

Same kinda thing, here. How the outward perception is very focused on a certain slice of lore, rather than every mention. It's only natural, but it's my job to look at it all, or I'm screwing up and not doing 40K justice.

 

The Sons were the majority of the Black Legion's founders, no doubt there. But not the entirety. After all, they were practically extinct in comparison to the other Legions, after the Legion Wars / Slave Wars.

Gotcha. I'm looking forward to it simply so I can read something about somebody who's watching the big players of 40k burn stuff down.

[Excessus]

Well, one thing the supplement has done for me so far is to inspire me at least...always something...

 

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6928/up8y.jpg

[A D-B]

 

 

AD-B, how do you explain the use of the Eye of Horus as the Black Legion's heraldry ?

 

I use words, Vesp. Vague, irritating words to dodge my way out of difficult questions.

 

You can see it in action right now. No charge.

Haha, I was expecting that kind of answer.

Will this perticular subject be developed in your Black Legion series ? Or in the supplement ? (Don't know if I'm forcing you to get off-limits, if that's the case, let's agree on the fact that The Black Legion uses the Eye of Horus for the sole reason they were lacking black paint to cover it up).

 

It's in the series, yes. 

 

I like the idea of it being something everyone has an idea about why it happens, and everyone has equally convincing cases for why they're right. Same with the black armour. 

 

This is old, treasured lore. I love this stuff. I'm very careful to keep my preferred interpretations far away, and try to do it justice in a wider context that can still apply to people's armies and their own preferences in the lore. Same with the Night Lords (focusing on one little warband, not the Legion) and the Word Bearers in the Heresy (focusing on one small fleet, most of the time). I'm not saying that's the right way, mind you - the Word Bearer series, and many other 40K novels, take the opposite approach and it's the definitive, exact lore fans crave. It gives answers, not more questions.

 

Easy to talk a big game, though. We'll see how the series comes out.

[Dorrance]

I am irrationally excited for this to release... I mean I know it is not going to a game changer but after reading the Farsight Enclave I just want all that Chaos fluff

[Sception]

Well, one thing the supplement has done for me so far is to inspire me at least...always something...

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6928/up8y.jpg

Oh, wow, sweet, is that the oathbroken guy, like from the picture? It looks awesome!

I am irrationally excited for this to release... I mean I know it is not going to a game changer but after reading the Farsight Enclave I just want all that Chaos fluff

Yeah, I know, I'm super excited for this. I don't expect it to fix the CSM book's problems, and don't even really want it too, as I've already argued (I would rather fixes to the book were applied directly to the book, not only to individual subfactions via supplements), but I'm still just super excited.

[Excessus]

 

Well, one thing the supplement has done for me so far is to inspire me at least...always something...

 

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6928/up8y.jpg

 

Oh, wow, sweet, is that the oathbroken guy, like from the picture?  It looks awesome!

 

Thanks! Yeah, I got inspired by that picture and tried to do something similar! :)

[Vesper]

 

 

 

AD-B, how do you explain the use of the Eye of Horus as the Black Legion's heraldry ?

 

I use words, Vesp. Vague, irritating words to dodge my way out of difficult questions.

 

You can see it in action right now. No charge.

Haha, I was expecting that kind of answer.

Will this perticular subject be developed in your Black Legion series ? Or in the supplement ? (Don't know if I'm forcing you to get off-limits, if that's the case, let's agree on the fact that The Black Legion uses the Eye of Horus for the sole reason they were lacking black paint to cover it up).

 

It's in the series, yes. 

 

I like the idea of it being something everyone has an idea about why it happens, and everyone has equally convincing cases for why they're right. Same with the black armour. 

 

This is old, treasured lore. I love this stuff. I'm very careful to keep my preferred interpretations far away, and try to do it justice in a wider context that can still apply to people's armies and their own preferences in the lore. Same with the Night Lords (focusing on one little warband, not the Legion) and the Word Bearers in the Heresy (focusing on one small fleet, most of the time). I'm not saying that's the right way, mind you - the Word Bearer series, and many other 40K novels, take the opposite approach and it's the definitive, exact lore fans crave. It gives answers, not more questions.

 

Easy to talk a big game, though. We'll see how the series comes out.

I've noticed this way of developing the lore, in your works.

I don't know if it's what people really want (they enjoy simple, strong answers, because it's kinda easier to build around such anchor points), but it surely isn't the safest, easiest path. That's source of wealth on another level. It gives more freedom, but it also can give the impression of a dillution of some concepts. I don't know if I'm clear enough, I'd explain myself way better in French (I'll have to buy your upcoming series in English, by the way. Staying true to the author's work and all).

On the Eye of Horus, I could picture something grim, like it's all about allowing Horus to witness their success where he failed miserably.

[Sception]

Thanks! Yeah, I got inspired by that picture and tried to do something similar!

Well, that's a fantastic job. Can't wait to see him painted up. I'm considering some third party bionics conversion bits myself. Would give me an excuse to hack up & re-work some of my leftover, old paint scheme black legion from years back, the ones I'm currently too ashamed to even field alongside my newer models.

[Excessus]

Thanks! Yeah, I got inspired by that picture and tried to do something similar!

Well, that's a fantastic job. Can't wait to see him painted up. I'm considering some third party bionics conversion bits myself. Would give me an excuse to hack up & re-work some of my leftover, old paint scheme black legion from years back, the ones I'm currently too ashamed to even field alongside my newer models.

Those old models will make wonderful oathbreakers I'm sure! :D

[Icarsun]

Supplement now released. Downloading it as we speak.

[Vesper]

Wut wut wut ?

Aww ! Damn you Apple !

[Sception]

I think 'what's the deal with the terminators' is probably the first question on everyone's mind.  If you can shed some light on that, I think we'd all be super greatful.

[Icarsun]

I posted a quick look on page 4 in the news board. Artefacts are neat, termies get an option of +1ws and bs if taking abaddon. Chosen troops standard and VOTLW mandatory. No new units or characters.

[Sception]

Thanks for the heads up!  That's interesting to hear.  I can't say I didn't hope for more on the terminator front - while Ws5/Bs5 termies sound neat, I have a hard time imagining that they're enough better than regular naked terminators to justify the upgrade cost, whatever it is, on top of the 3 point vets tax.  Otherwise, it's vets tax for troop chosen, as hypothesized.  Not exactly overwhelming, but I'm not hugely disappointed, that's pretty much how I expected it to turn out.  Still excited to pick up my own copy, though the added wait for ebooks remains frustrating.

 

I look forward to hearing more about the warlord traits and items. 

[minigun762]

So, the 'new direction' Black Legion is essentially Caesar's Legion from Fallout New Vegas?

I don't think it's that new, just more fleshed out but yeah it sounds like.

 

Black Legion are a "new" threat born from the "failed" legions of the heresy.

[Captain Idaho]

Wow, AD-B, that's quite a challenge you've given yourself. I'd find it very difficult to write about anything in 40K and keep my own interpretation (which is the right one of course, just like everyone's) and use a broad interpretation to appease all the wrong opinions of everyone else (i.e. anyone's opinion but mine). Do you enjoy writing as much, or is one of the inevitable negative aspects of mercenary prose?

[Gree]

I'm more interested to hear on the new Black Legion fluff.