Vesper Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It'll hopefully spill everywhere on the internet tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 +1 BS and WS on termies is nice...but for one unit, and only for additional points....and only if you are taking the boss man? Who doesn't get a discount for his Chosen to troops move not being a thing anymore....: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Overall I don't think this is much of an improvement. I guess 1+ to WS and BS is nice, but really the biggest advantage of Chaos Termies is that they are cheap in comparison to loyalists. Adding VotLW and this upgrade will kinda negate that. Add to the fact that from what I've heard about the Warlord table and the new BL items and the best use of this list will probably be allying for a quad drake list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013  There's a new Daemon Sword, slightly cheaper than the Axe of a Blind Fury. Gives a bonus to initiative. Should've always been in the codex, IMHO. There's an awesome artefact that allows the bearer to fire an unlimited range large blast that scores D3 automatic penetrating hits to any vehicle it touches, usable once per game. Very expensive, though.  A psyker-only artefact increases the bearer's mastery by 1, though it doesn't allow him to generate another power (boo). Instead, it gives him a Nova power that increases range with more Warp Charge points.  Oh hey, an artefact that gives Eternal Warrior and Adamanitium Will. Nice. Not cheap, though.  Warlord Traits: 1. Black Crusader 2. Rerolls to Chaos Boon table for the Warlord. 3. A one-use Flamer. Woo. 4. Warlord has IWND. 5. Attacks have a chance of causing Instant Death. 6. Friendly units near the Warlord have Stubborn.   yeah not great, looks like this is supplement, Lvl4 Sorcerer, min-cultist, drake spam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Â Cheexsta wrote:Supplement is out in Australia. Â Â There's a new Daemon Sword, slightly cheaper than the Axe of a Blind Fury. Gives a bonus to initiative. Should've always been in the codex, IMHO. Â Â There's an awesome artefact that allows the bearer to fire an unlimited range large blast that scores D3 automatic penetrating hits to any vehicle it touches, usable once per game. Very expensive, though. Â Â A psyker-only artefact increases the bearer's mastery by 1, though it doesn't allow him to generate another power (boo). Instead, it gives him a Nova power that increases range with more Warp Charge points. Â Oh hey, an artefact that gives Eternal Warrior and Adamanitium Will. Nice. Not cheap, though. Â Warlord Traits: 1. Black Crusader 2. Rerolls to Chaos Boon table for the Warlord. 3. A one-use Flamer. Woo. 4. Warlord has IWND. 5. Attacks have a chance of causing Instant Death. 6. Friendly units near the Warlord have Stubborn. Â Haven't looked at the fluff or CoD or Planetstrike sections yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I was hoping for deep strike mitigation to make the terminators more functional. Â More expensive, even with better weapon skill, doesn't really help their deployment issues. Â And the warlord traits don't really seem any better than, or even meaningfully different from, the parent book's list. Â Sad as I am about that, though, I'm quite happy to see a daemon sword (finally a use for my dark vengeance lord?), and an option for eternal warrior (alternative to black mace on a prince?). Â The other relics sound potentially interesting as well. Â All in all, though, doesn't seem like a supplement that non Black Legion players should care to bother with, apart from maybe for self allied quad drake lists, though I'm not sure the fourth drake is worth the ally slots. Â If all you're looking to do is spam fliers, then by the third one you might want to go with guard instead for their anti-air flier. Â I'm not that disappointed, though. It's about what I expected it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Oh yeah, I've read that on Warseer . I'm more interested in the timeline, the artworks and the background. That's why I'll get the supplement. When they'll release a hardback version of it, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 The more I look at them, the more disappointed I am by the warlord traits. Â There's nothing about them that screams 'black legion'. Â Nothing that seems to tie into their history, personality, or character. Â They really might as well have skipped the new traits table altogether, it doesn't seem to add anything meaningful to the supplement or to the subfaction. Â A wasted opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 They could've gone bonkers with FOC changes and all, but that's not something they want for CSMs. I advise you wait until you know the name of the warlords traits. For example, the one that makes people stubborn could be named "To Terra, brothers !", or something along those lines. Translating various concepts into rules isn't something that is safe for said concepts. They belong to a higher sphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 The most disappointing part about the warlords, in my opinion, is that only 4 of those are new, the other 2 are roll1 and roll6 from the regular chaos table.  They also don't compare favourably with the traits of eldar and tau, our only buff trait is "stubborn" whereas eldar and tau have numerous, albiet one use, re-rolls and the like.   The least they should have done was to make termies scoring, even if they stayed elites it would be a very BL thing to have.   edit: JESUS! word is the WS/BS termie upgrade is more than buying them a powerfist.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 The traits could have included scoring terminators, or deep strike mitigation, or extra victory points for slay the warlord, or the like. Â They're not terrible - not good, but not so bad I'm mad at them. Â They just don't feel 'black legiony', and names aren't going to help that. Â The items at least should get narrative blurbs, so that's something. Â The other annoying thing about the supplement is that the vets requirement is going to make Black Legion forces the least numerous on the tabletop, even though they're the most numerous according to the narrative. Â This is especially dramatic when fielding chosen as troops, or abaddon himself. Â The narrative is that we're the most populous legion, but the supplement rules tend towards warbands that look more like our rogue trader or 2nd ed fluff, when we were still the least populous legion, trying to take stabs at the imperium while fending off all the other legions, which hated us. Â Doesn't bother me too much. Â I'm fine imagining that this supplement represents specifically the legion core of former sons of horus, and that the bulk of the legion would be run out of the main book instead. Â But it is a slight disconnect. Â The rumored cost of the terminator despair squad upgrade is absurd, though, especially on top of vets and taking abaddon in the first place. Â Definitely something for Apocalypse only, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 yeah personally I don't think the supplement is doing enough to tempt me away from the regular list. Those artifacts are nice, but they don't compare to the efficiency of the burning brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I only play Apocalypse-like games. So, I don't mind. It's actually pretty cool to have Chosen Terminators with Abaddon.   They're not terrible - not good, but not so bad I'm mad at them. I think that's the design direction GW is going with CSMs. We're used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think this may be the first supplement that really doesn't see use outside of players of the subfaction it directly represents. Â The farsight book had some restrictions, but also some real meaningful benefits, like troop crisis suits, that non-farsight players could be tempted by. Â The Iyanden book didn't offer much besides a superior warlord trait table, but didn't really ask for any sacrifices at all in return, so a number of Eldar players seem to say 'eh, might as well'. Â This supplement has some noticeable restrictions that negatively impact overall points efficiency, but doesn't offer much in return. Â The warlord trait table isn't at all superior, the items are nice, but don't outclass the items the parent book already had access to, the unlocked troops are highly points inefficient, making them rather poor at holding objectives, etc. Â I like it enough to run it anyway, and even the overpriced chosen terminators might see use from me in APO games, but if I weren't a black legion player, I'd be passing on this book hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Seriously? It's all still options on top of what we have now, why not get it if you have the cash? This sounds like it'll essentially double our artefacts so I'm going counts as all the way. That might've been their idea all along though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Honestly. Given that abby didnt get a points reduction but his chosen troops wqs made non unique. You think the least they could do would be to have made the one unit of xhosen terminators upgrade free....or at most one or two points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 It's not just options on top of now, they come with a rather notable restriction - you've got to take the vets upgrade on all your squads to use them, and even after doing so you still have to pay for the new options on top of that, most of which seem rather pricey for what you get. Â The new warlord trait table is, if anything, less good than that in the parent dex, and while the new artifacts are nice, they're not trumping the burning brand any time soon for efficiency. Â In general, seems like you're better off running out of the main book. Â Supplements still worth picking up for black legion players in search of new fluff, but really, doesn't seem worth the asking price for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Alot of the people that aren't playing competitively are already upgrading all their squads with votlw so that's nothing new for me at least. I only see a few WL traits I wouldn't want, mainly the flamer and stubborn. Who cares if the new artifacts are especially effective? We had 2 daemon weapons, anything new is welcome. Think what you want dude but those with some extra cash who want a more "elite" and fluffy army will probably pick it up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Stupid question, but I'm only half-paying attentiont to the entire thread. Anyway, the mandatory VotLW. Is it free or is it a tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Its a tax. Â Its not one I personally mind, I play a predominantly "shooty" army and designed my list to pound marines, therefore its worth it in my opinion. That being said, I run termies, oblits and drakes, I use cultists as troops and pretty much don't have any bog power armour units. I wouldn't be caught ever paying GKSS prices for a chosen model, even if it was scoring, and thats what you MUST do if you want to run them as troops in the supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I'm hearing talk that the BL artifacts are instead of the parent book artifacts, not in addition to them. Â So you get a daemon sword, but no black mace, no blinding axe (say goodbye to AP2 above init 1 outside of princes), and no burning brand. Â If the rest of the black legion artifacts are as costly for what they do as the hand is, then the 'neat' artifacts will end up being another downgrade from the parent book, at least in terms of points efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 That was always the way it was going to be. That's how fsrsight works too. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Didn't think it was how iyanden worked, but admittedly I don't have that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Yeah iyanden was different. In that one you have to choose which book the model wants its wargearfrom. Â So you can take wargear from both in the one list but not on the one character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 So the sword - it's what, AP3, S: user, daemon weapon, +1 init? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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