And the Supplement for CSM is....

[minionboy]

There is one for each god, plus the oath broken and a possessed war band.

[Vesper]

what are the featured warbands in the supplement like, i liked the look of the hounds of abbadon and the oath broken, are there many others?

According to 40k wikia :

 

Bringers of Decay - The Bringers of Decay are a special formation of Chaos Space Marines found within the Black Legion who are wholly dedicated to Nurgle.

The Plague God has a strong following within the Black Legion; his

putrid touch is evident throughout the ranks of its warriors. Under the

dominance of the Chosen of Abaddon lieutenant Skyrak Slaughterborn,

the current Lord Corruptor, the Nurglites have converted many to their

cause. In battle, the Bringers of Decay are Abaddon's plague carriers

and heralds of contagion, often appearing before other warbands of the

Legion to sow infection and sickness amongst the foe. This could also be

why many other warbands of the Black Legion will have little to do with

the Bringers of Decay, repelled by the blessings of the Plague God they

bear, and the pervasive stench that follows them

 

 

Children of Torment - Hundreds of followers of Slaanesh have sworn their allegiance to Abaddon and joined the ranks of he Black Legion. Under the guidance of warlords such as Devram Korda, they make up for multiple powerful warbands collectively known as the Children of Torment.

These devotees of the Prince of Pleasure bow to Abaddon, for he grants

them unending opportunities to wallow in the anguish of his mortal

victims, and feed upon their gushing lifeblood. Even though they are

devotees of Slaanesh, the Children of Torment are despised by members of

the Emperor's Children, who see them as traitors to Fulgrim and lapdogs of a lesser Warmaster.

 

 

 

Sons of the Cyclops - The Sons of the Cyclops are the smallest of

the warbands dedicated to a single Chaos God within the Black Legion.

Consisting of the followers of Tzeentch, Chaos Sorcerers and attending Rubricae,

the Sons of the Cyclops hold an amount of power completely

disproportioned to their diminutive numbers within the Black Legion.

This is because of the many favours Abaddon lavishes upon the Sons of

the Cyclops' leaders; powerful psykers and sorcerers like Zaraphiston and Ygethmor the Deciever.

Gifted seers and diviners, they make up the core of Abaddon's closest

and most trusted advisers, peering into the future and guiding the

multiple components of a Black Crusade toward Abaddon's ultimate goals.

[daveNYC]

Gifted seers and diviners huh?

[RapatoR]

Several thoughts:

Wow, both Abby and Black Legion are just neat.

My view of votlw rule changed. It seems that this rule represents, marines that still want to tear down imperium, rather than heresy era marines (but then why it is on Rubicks/Ahriman?)

It pains me to see awesome things such as posessed warbands and no way whatsover to represent them.

[Brother Aiwass]

Yeah, we have no proper (read: crapy) way to field Possessed. The unit entry just sucks. But...

 

Then you can buy two or three Possessed boxes, mix with regular CSM bits and field them as Chosen with power weapons/fists/claws. Which happens to have grenades, can be marked, VoTLWed, gifted and upgraded in general terms. Cheapers than Possessed, but more effective imho. Add MoK for increased attacks, MoN for resilence or MoS for higher init.

 

Not the best way? Dunno. Not the best unit? Sure, but way better than the actual Possessed and on top of that are scoring.

 

TL;DR you can screw GW intent to screw Chaos. Kinda.

[the jeske]

Heavy wounded  , half armored marines.[mix of IG/WFB and chaos CSM parts] ad hock limb replacments , some dudes crawling with legs blasted off. No chainswords , but a lot of weapons from the imperial flaglants .

Flamers converted to look like WWI/WWII sturm units flamers with added gargoyle heads to make them more barocc just like for normal units , but with battle dmg for example one blasted off  . Those are suppse to represent the BL outcasts , those that failed abadon and are no longer supplied by him , nor gain boons from the chaos gods .The rules for those  will cultists . The "leader" of the warband will be a DP modeled like D3 butcher , green stuff and oger parts . He and an ally GUO and  DP winged will be the jailers . The GUO will not be the classic fat dude , but more like a cross between middle ages Death And Baba Jaga . The winged DP would be a scaled spider leged Female demonetts. Think female sarpadon.  2 helldrakes , modeled using the WFB high elf eagles boats . Just the boats with flames[greenstuff]and chaos iconography  added . They will have 1ksons crew . The bale drakes version has a triple sorc team and the mandala from the WFB chaos beast  representing the flamer , while the cannon version will have 3 1ksons "havocks"[yes I know those dont exist in fluff , but they look cool].

The army will also have a unit of 10 PG , those will be made out of "dead" csm and skeleton/khemri/vampire count WFB parts.

 

Cool looking , fluffy , not totaly sucky to play.

[Excessus]

Gifted seers and diviners huh?

Yeah, GW just loves to troll Tzeentch players, lol :D

[Tenebris]

All I know is that the supplement completely disappointed me. It has fluff but it has not rules. I have scoured the net and some communities that I frequent to see some new army lists with the BL book and here is how most look like:

 

Dark Apostle (free VotLW)

20 Culstists

2x Flamer

Helldrake/Obliterators/Maulerfiend/Chaos Bikers

 

You hardly spot any CSM at all. As I have predicted, the VotLW tax can be a very steep price to pay and people usually avoid it since it has little return value. The cultist unit is a great thing from day one and the rest of the FA and HS slots are reserved for multiples of the primary list.

 

So that is the BL supplement in all its glory. And I hardly see anything Black Legion-ish in it. 

[Excessus]

I was always taking votlw on my CSM/Bikers/Havocs/Oblits anyway, I don't really consider it a tax as such...

[minigun762]

I was always taking votlw on my CSM/Bikers/Havocs/Oblits anyway, I don't really consider it a tax as such...

Truth be told it's a better deal on those units.

That said, if you try to fully utilize both the LD and assault buff, I see it being workable.

Chosen in Land Raiders with a mix of power and special weapons. More attacks, bodies and assault grenades compared to Terminators.

[Vesper]

EDIT : Thanks guys :).

[40kChrista]

It would take forever to make it... peep show format Vesper. The fluff clocks in at 55 ibook pages, so maybe half that for actual printed pages. Actually the longest part would going in and renumbering the screen captures.

I find the whole release schedule of ibook, e-reader, physical book a little odd and a lot exploitive. You mean they can't find a single printer with some open schedule time? In the world? The funny part is, I think they went to Apple to make sure that piracy would be at a minimum, but made it super easy through Apple's technology.

[Sception]

The physical copy delay I understand, on two fronts.  First, their printing facilities are already taxed to their limit by the accelerated army book & codex release rate, which I don't think anyone can complain about.  Supposedly a new facility is coming on line, so that should clear up.

 

Second, corrections can always be easily integrated into a digital product, but once the physical product is out, its out.  Having the digital released before you start printing the physical copy gives people time to catch things like spelling errors or errata issues like 'you forgot to say whether these artefacts replace weapons' or the like, and make those corrections before the physical book is printed.

 

The delay between ibook and ebook feels arbitrary and exploitative, though.

[Urauloth]

I really want to see the fluff from this book, looking forward to that. Might even buy the book if the fluff/art is good enough. I really don't care about the rules, though. I wish they'd just sell me the fluff as an ebook or something.

[Sception]

I know someone, I forget who, earlier in the thread was unhappy with the way Abaddon and the Black Legion had abandoned and rejected Horus's legacy. While the book really won't appeal to them in general, and the Black Legion really isn't what they thought it was, there is one page of fluff they'd like about warbands of former Sons of Horus that have refused to swear to Abaddon, collectively referred to (by the Black Legion, not by themselves) as the 'thrice cursed traitors'. There's not much written about them (they explicitly aren't Black Legion after all), but I imagine they'd be of note to Sons of Horus fans who don't care for the Despoiler or his Black Legion.

 

The most notable Thrice-Cursed warband seems to be the Sons of the Eye. Their warlord considered Abaddon a usurper and after breaking with Abaddon he had his warriors cut a mark across their legion icons to symbolize Horus's blindness that led to his Legion's downfall. Later he was slain by Abaddon and his warriors absorbed into the Black Legion, so he's out, but there are two other thrice-cursed warbands mentioned on the page. First is the Wolves of Horus who attempted to return to the practices of the Luna Wolves, so if you want to make a Chaos Marine army based on the pre-Sons of Horus scheme, there you go; and last is the True Sons, who still worship Horus as a god, and who erect massive effigies of him on worlds they conquer, and then symbolically burn them, presumably to mourn his death and desecration.

 

From what I can tell, the three described aren't meant to be an exhaustive list, either, so if you want a warband that holds to the Sons of Horus legacy, there's certainly cannon support for that now.

[Gree]

I know someone, I forget who, earlier in the thread was unhappy with the way Abaddon and the Black Legion had abandoned and rejected Horus's legacy.

 

That would be me.

[Sception]

Ah, yes.  I tried to go back in the thread and find the posts, but I failed.

 

Anyway, yeah, I really don't think the bulk of this supplement will be for you*, but there is acknowledgment of former XVI Legionnairs who aren't down with the Despoiler, tearing about the Eye in both Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus colors.  They seem to be relatively small, splinter groups, but they're out there.  If your local play group is ok with running FW 30k stuff in games of 40k (from what I hear, most of it's generally fine balance wise, as long as you avoid the super heavies and primarchs), the Sons of Horus 30k list might be a good way to field them as well.

 

EDIT:  On the other hand, a small elite force of chosen veterans like the BL supplement allows might actually work for a thrice cursed warband, since their forces would be small (since the Sons of Horus were down to a fraction of their strength at the end of the Heresy AND those that were left suffered significant losses fighting other legions in the eye AND the majority of those who remained after that have sworn to Abaddon), but would also have the be extremely hardened and elite to survive, since the Black Legion goes out of their way to hunt down such warbands, and you don't live very long in the Eye when Abby wants you dead unless your one bad ass mofo.  If I didn't like the black legion I still wouldn't want to buy a book that was 100 pages of Black Legion fluff just for 2 pages of rules and a single page of thrice-cursed fluff, and most of that given over to the destroyed Sons of the Eye, but if you did end up with access to the supplement you might get some use out of it that way.

[Urauloth]

Haha I was just lamenting the lack of old luna wolf iconography a few pages back, certainly didn't expect the fluff gods to answer that particular prayer. Between that and the potential to kitbash a FW sons of horus ravager squad, these thrice-cursed sound like the coolest thing going.

 

Small splinter groups are exactly what I like, too, they're perfect for modelling projects and backstory crafting. Legitimately excited about this book, now.

[Sception]

One of the interesting recurring themes in the supplement's fluff is Abaddons manipulation of fate.  One story has him mastering a daemon prince on a planet where time runs backwards, and gaining access to its memories of the future.  His cadre of diviners also features heavily (shame they didn't feature heavily enough to give the Black Legion access to divination in some way).  In sidebar narrative bits and black crusade summaries, Abaddon is shown sifting through possible futures, circumventing prophesies before they can come to pass, and planting seeds that would eventually yield terrible fruit.

 

 

Most of the Crusades have been set up to imply that Abaddon achieved whatever goal he had set out to accomplish, but there is one makes him look every bit as silly as the Failbaddon meme, where he binds a demon to his navigation console, but it falls apart, scattering his fleet and sending him way off course.  He tries to conquer the first imperial world he comes across when he regains control, but his forces are beaten back by the orks that are already attacking it.  It's kind of embarrassing, actually, but then again pretty much every faction has at least on 'embarrassed by orks' story, right?  ;)

[Piousservant]

I know someone, I forget who, earlier in the thread was unhappy with the way Abaddon and the Black Legion had abandoned and rejected Horus's legacy. While the book really won't appeal to them in general, and the Black Legion really isn't what they thought it was, there is one page of fluff they'd like about warbands of former Sons of Horus that have refused to swear to Abaddon, collectively referred to (by the Black Legion, not by themselves) as the 'thrice cursed traitors'. There's not much written about them (they explicitly aren't Black Legion after all), but I imagine they'd be of note to Sons of Horus fans who don't care for the Despoiler or his Black Legion.

I've not read it, so don't know how it is presented but is it much of a retcon?

 

I mean... "Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the galaxy in his grasp and he let it slip away..." ... right?

[Vesper]

I've read the whole thing, and it was awesome.

The fluff is good. You really get how brutal, merciless and loyal the Black Legion is. They really are the number one threat that will bring the Imperium down in flames. And that inspired me a lot for my own warband.

What I don't like is that the writer fails to get the scale of the Black Legion. They're supposed to be so huge, even bigger than some Legions, back in the HH. So why, even when they are united in a Black Crusade, the whole might of the Black Legion is challenged by one or two chapters ? Since when 100k+ marines vs 2k marines is a balanced fight ? Whole chapters should be slaughtered explicitly (well, the fluff says Terra's annals are full of chapters, IG regiments and titan legions destroyed by the Black Legion... But it's not detailed enough...). Chapters should consider themselves fortunate avoiding the might of the Black Legion, for it means their complete destruction. Even if they are from the first founding.

Most of the Crusades have been set up to imply that Abaddon achieved
whatever goal he had set out to accomplish, but there is one makes him
look every bit as silly as the Failbaddon meme, where he binds a demon
to his navigation console, but it falls apart, scattering his fleet and
sending him way off course. He tries to conquer the first imperial
world he comes across when he regains control, but his forces are beaten
back by the orks that are already attacking it. It's kind of
embarrassing, actually, but then again pretty much every faction has at
least on 'embarrassed by orks' story, right?

I don't read it that way.

Abaddon is being set off course. And then he takes the opportunity to experiment crazy stuff on the Orks, before leaving. He left undefeated, because that perticular Black Crusade was a waste of time and ressources and it wasn't worth spending more time in the materium.

[RapatoR]

By the way I am not sure why are people so afraid of not passing nova psychic test. Just add familliar to the damn wizard and you are ok.

[Dorrance]

This also opens the door for Night Lords and maybe Alpha Legion. With making chosen troops you could easily represent a Night Lords force, maybe its from just reading the night lords trilogy but small stacked surgical troops choice seem up their ally.

 

Same thing with alpha legion, tons of cultists and chosen as troops.

 

Maybe I am biased towards the codex but I see a great deal of creative opportunities .

[Sception]

 

I know someone, I forget who, earlier in the thread was unhappy with the way Abaddon and the Black Legion had abandoned and rejected Horus's legacy. While the book really won't appeal to them in general, and the Black Legion really isn't what they thought it was, there is one page of fluff they'd like about warbands of former Sons of Horus that have refused to swear to Abaddon, collectively referred to (by the Black Legion, not by themselves) as the 'thrice cursed traitors'. There's not much written about them (they explicitly aren't Black Legion after all), but I imagine they'd be of note to Sons of Horus fans who don't care for the Despoiler or his Black Legion.

I've not read it, so don't know how it is presented but is it much of a retcon?

 

I mean... "Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the galaxy in his grasp and he let it slip away..." ... right?

 

That part's not a retcon, Gree just wasn't aware of it, and didn't like it when they found out.  They wanted something that celebrated the Sons of Horus heritage instead of rejecting it.  I was just mentioning that the new book does established the existance of former Sons of Horus warbands that didn't sign up with Abaddon and the Black Legion, which to my knowledge is a retcon, or at least new fluff, and might provide a fluff basis for a Chaos Marine army more to Gree's liking.

[Brother Aiwass]

This also opens the door for Night Lords and maybe Alpha Legion. With making chosen troops you could easily represent a Night Lords force, maybe its from just reading the night lords trilogy but small stacked surgical troops choice seem up their ally.

 

Same thing with alpha legion, tons of cultists and chosen as troops.

 

Maybe I am biased towards the codex but I see a great deal of creative opportunities .

 

I see it the same way as you do. But some stuff itch me. Mostly because I have my HQ set in stone (almost), that is TDA Lord with Axe & PA Telepathy sorc. Besides that I see a lot of potential.

 

The crucible is a waste imho, but the other artifacts are very useful.

 

With the Spineshiver you can deploy the DV lord with an actual daemon sword, the super-nova is very loveable with a TDA sorc (DSing along 4 plasmacide termies) and the HoD is also great with a biker lord (MoS for higher init or MoN to avoid get instakilled) to hunt MCs. Or if you're facing lots of armor instead of MCs, you can take the Eye.

 

Nothing to cheap, but not awfully costed. I have to ponder about it, but the AoBF calls me so hard...