RW tactics against Noise Marines

[Tiger9gamer]

Chaos befuddled my plans yet again, it seems. I played a game against some emperor's children and pretty much got slaughtered by Blastmasters, as I was playing like I still had jink.

 

To avoid this again, what should I do with my ravenwing? the BoD (trying to avoid it for a while) wouldn't have helped me as this is a defence problem. but should I have taken the banner of foritude? it's crazy expensive, but I might have needed the FNP.

[jeremy1391]

Outflank some black knights and rapid fire the crap out of them with plasma!

[Tiger9gamer]

it was a vanguard mission, so about 1/3 of a chance to be in the middle of fudge no-where. 

[Tiger9gamer]

For those interested, I used

 

HQ: Sammuel-200pts

----RW command squad (x5 guys, RW grenade launcher, champion)-205pts

 

Troop 1: RW squad ( x6 marines, x2 flamers)-171pts

 

Troop 2: RW squad (x6 marines)-161pts

 

Elite 1: Mortis Dread (x2 autocannons)-125pts

 

F/A 1: Typhoon speeder-75pts

 

H/S 1: whirlwind-65pts

 

 

and he had, if I remember correctly,

 

HQ: Chaos lord (terminator armor, MoS, dual lightning claws, and a gift?)

 

x10 noise marines with a blast master and champion w/ power sword

 

x10 noise marines with a blast master and champion w/ power sword

 

Havoc squad with 4 missile launchers

 

Maulerfiend

 

x2 oblitherators w/ MoN

[Prot]

Gees, he didn't even have a Baledrake? Did I miss it? Because with Baledrake -and- blastmasters, you're in for a rough ride. The combo is rare, but truly the bane of Ravenwing.

 

This is what really bothers me about Ravenwing.. a lot. You know why? I play chaos, a lot of variants of chaos, and any list 'living in cover' is in trouble with most of my Chaos lists. This isn't to say my Chaos is strong, not at all, but it's a favorable match up.

 

Get this.... you want to know the bane of such a Chaos list as the one you faced? A termie based list. Aside from Oblits, Chaos can have difficulties (if using the 'common units') countering Terminators.

 

So, while I don't have -the- answer for you, I think if you dropped a squad of Termies in, or around those blastmaster squads, it quite possibly could have thrown the wrench in his plans that gives your bikes just enough breathing room to catch up to the termies for the one-two punch. Your Termies have the biggest threat from the Oblits, which is a real threat, but aside from that, he would be wasting Noise Marines entirely on your Termies.

 

It wouldn't be easy, but it's something to consider.

[Tiger9gamer]

Gees, he didn't even have a Baledrake? Did I miss it? Because with Baledrake -and- blastmasters, you're in for a rough ride. The combo is rare, but truly the bane of Ravenwing.

 

This is what really bothers me about Ravenwing.. a lot. You know why? I play chaos, a lot of variants of chaos, and any list 'living in cover' is in trouble with most of my Chaos lists. This isn't to say my Chaos is strong, not at all, but it's a favorable match up.

 

Get this.... you want to know the bane of such a Chaos list as the one you faced? A termie based list. Aside from Oblits, Chaos can have difficulties (if using the 'common units') countering Terminators.

 

So, while I don't have -the- answer for you, I think if you dropped a squad of Termies in, or around those blastmaster squads, it quite possibly could have thrown the wrench in his plans that gives your bikes just enough breathing room to catch up to the termies for the one-two punch. Your Termies have the biggest threat from the Oblits, which is a real threat, but aside from that, he would be wasting Noise Marines entirely on your Termies.

 

It wouldn't be easy, but it's something to consider.

So maybe I should have went with my initial gut instinct and brought a terminator heavy green wing list? >,< dang. Well, now I know!

[AngelVeto]

A friend of mine plays emps children (I cannot bring myself to the degree of heresy needed to use their full name) and he always hated when I'd bring all my boxes down because he never new what I was fielding. Deep striking flames to murder cultists, knights, cyclones and plasma would always ruin his day.

[Bonzi]

NM armies come up short against mech spam and 2+ saves.  NM troops means he has to get his plasma from other more expensive slots.  Deathwing units would be tough for the NM army.

[facmanpob]

Here's a few options.....

1) Reserve your bikes......don't outflank them, just put them in normal reserve....they'll come onto the long table edge nearest your deployment zone, which actually gives you loads of options as to what they do when they come on in the diagonal deployment zones you played

2) Set up the table with as much LoS blocking terrain as possible in the middle of the board, so if he deploys his big damage output units to one side, you go to the other

3) Go second - you get to see his deployment set up, and your bikes (which are in reserve) will be off the table for at least 1/3 of the game

4) spread out the objectives....you have the mobility to cope with it....he doesn't!

Food for thought

[bluepillredpill]

With what was used on both sides I would say look to keep the RW out of reach of them let the whirlwind and Mortis take care of them.

 

NM and drakes are the bane of an army that utilises cover saves and with ap3 makes RW practically redundant. 

 

I would say take that small unit of Terminators to handle them or drop pod the mortis to get close to them at the start of the game

[Darkangeldentist]

I don't think you need to change your list much, I would try and squeeze in an apothecary thought as you just need to pass a single feel no pain roll to make up for his cost. (With Sammael in the unit you are likely to pass at least 2 over the course of a game assuming a bit of luck.) I would consider trying to get a couple of attack bikes with multimeltas in there as well but that would require more substantial substituting. (I'd drop the whirlwind and typhoon for the points for all of the above changes.)

 

The greatest thing that will help against blast masters specifically is maximising your spacing between models. It makes them take up a lot more board space but you can ensure that he can only ever hit a single biker if you space out the models well. This along with the scattering potential should limit the damage a fair bit.

 

As for more general tactics it depends on terrain and whether you are going first or second. If you're going first then you can afford to be aggressive, aim to destory the mauler fiend on turn one with concentrated fire from attack bikes and the dreadnought (or whatever anti-tank you've brought) and use the main force of bikers to flank his infantry and focus fire to diminish and destroy units entirely where possible. Ideally Sammael and the command squad should be able to delete a unit a turn with shooting and a charge but as a unit they attrition very poorly and each loss makes a huge impact on the squad so it's tricky to make the most of them. I would always advocate keeping a character with them if only to act as a wound sink for the first failed save. Have the command squad zoom up a flank and attempt to roll up their line with them.

 

For the sake of completeness I'll also make the point of mentioning the 'Inner circle' rule's benefit of preferred enemy against chaos space marines. Sammael grants it to any unit he leads and it makes both his shooting and combat reliability significantly better. (Since it effects to hit and wound rolls.) Leading the command squad you ought to smash most things you charge.

 

If you go second then terrain is going to play a much more vital part but I'd still move forwards in most cases. Just try to make sure anything that blocks line of sight is in between your bikes and his blast masters. Not always possible and it won't always be worth it since the chaos advantage in numbers means they can afford a long range exchange more easily than you. Aim for a strong refused flank, you'll at least get to see where he deploys first so can counter-deploy to limit his damage potential and use the scout redeployment to ensure you are in the best position initially.

 

The attack squadrons are going to be the loose wheel most of the time, I like equipping them with flamers but against chaos and other marine equivalents they are not going to do masses of damage reliably so you'll have to be careful about when and how you commit them. Try to lure your opponent into focusing fire at them by making them threatening, so having them hang around the 16-18" mark so that next turn you could zoom up, shoot and charge. This is to divert fire that might otherwise be sent at your attack bikes, dreadnought and command squad. Of your force they have the most bodies and casualties have the least impact, it's still devastating but each member of the squad can achieve far less than the members of the other units. So long as they have at least a couple of survivors they can still zoom off to score objectives and that fact can win you games by itself.

 

The fact the bikers do have enough numbers to take on some units and have numerical parity if not superiority means that you should be prepared to send them into combat after a round of shooting against some targets in the chaos army. In the case of the list you provided, the havocs and the obliterators. If you are lucky your shooting might inflct some damage and each bikers essentially will have 3 attacks on the charge. In the case of havocs this is quite a nice matchup, against obliterators less so but it's valuable to remember that slow and purposeful units cannot overwatch which helps a lot and on average 2 of them will only kill a couple of bikers. So with any luck you'll still have some left after two rounds of combat, after which you can hit and run to leave combat and have another go at shooting them down. Tarpitting a unit like that is costly but can be worthwhile if it not only takes out a substantial portion of his firebase but also diverts other elements to attempt to extract them quickly.

 

I would not, in general, put anything in reserve unless terrain guarantees that you can survive with such a significant chunk of your army not being on the table from the start.

 

Best of luck in your next game.