Pre Heresy Raven Guard

[ForlorneRaven]

Hi I am looking to start a pre/during the heresy Raven Guard army based around troops that were luckily not at the Istvann Massacre. I am looking for any guidance or input in regards to particular units i should consider building and Armour patterns.

My current understanding in regards to Armour, would be that the Raven Guard would predominantly use MK IV given the choice due to its enhanced stealth ability and MKVI due to their field testing of it and the events of "Deliverance Lost". 

Unit wise I'm leaning towards little or no vehicles, with tactical squads of around 10 complimented by assault and recon squads. With Dreadnoughts for support. Another question though is did they use carapace armored scouts during the heresy as i have abundance of plastic snipers scouts i could use.

 

Background wise i have read Deliverance Lost and noted that the Raven Guard particularly those born on Lycaeus disregard ornamentation in favour of functionality.

So yeah, any information or input in relation to unit types, organisation, background or armour patterns favoured by the raven guard would be welcome. I am hoping to do this using mainly forge world however it will be a slow burner as i have limited funds and want to do the models and the XIX justice!

 

Thanks!

[Knight of the Raven]

I can't help you with the lore, but if you wish to start your army now (or at least before the Raven Guard is featured in FW books), I suggest you use mkIV armor since they've much more choice than mkVI, which currently tops at two kits.

[jeremy1391]

I would think that they would use an abundance of MKIV assault marines and recon squads with carapace armor would be fine, be sure to remove any chest eagles though dice that was the domain of the EC. I would also think that smaller 10 man assault squads would be used over a 20 man full blown frontal assault squad, mainly because ten men would be much easier to sneak around than 20.

[Adra'Melek]

I was under the impression that the Raven Guard missed Mark IV completely. Can't remember for sure

[Kol Saresk]

Well, Mk IV is supposed to be a rarity for any of the Loyalists. Optimum word is "supposed" as more than a few writiers have liberally sprinkled Mk IV amongst the Loyalists. Prime example, Deliverance Lost. Although since only 1,000 RG have it, it could be considered acceptable.

 

Anyway, since you're doing the RG who missed Istvaan V but were around before the Dropsite Massacre, Mk IV is going to be your most common Mk as the survivors wore the earliest incarnations of Mk V and the Mk VI went to the recruits.

 

Before the Massacre, guerilla warfare was a signature of the Raven Guard but it became a full-blown specialty during the Heresy. So as Jeremy1391 suggested, Assault and Recon Squads are good.

 

On the note of the Aquila, the standard aquila like you find on standard 40K Loyalists are rare in 30K, but okay for any Legion to wear. The EC had special permission to wear the Palatine Aquila, which was the Emperor's personal Aquila that still carried the lightning heraldry of the Unification era.

[GhostMalone]

Quoth goes the raven. I think keeping them with little ornamentation as possible is the way to go.

[Conn Eremon]

On the note of the Aquila, the standard aquila like you find on standard 40K Loyalists are rare in 30K, but okay for any Legion to wear. The EC had special permission to wear the Palatine Aquila, which was the Emperor's personal Aquila that still carried the lightning heraldry of the Unification era.

 

Really? I thought it was reversed. Admittedly, I can't think of any reasons why I thought that, perhaps it's just the way my mind interpreted it. I thought the Emperor's Children were allowed to carry the Palatine Aquila, the newer Imperial symbol following the Unification Wars, while the other Legions wore the Aquila from the Unification Wars, which retains the lightning bolt heraldry. All the Legions fought in the Unification Wars, somehow (except perhaps some of the later Legions like the Alpha Legion), and were therefore allowed to wear that Aquila. But only the Emperor's Children were allowed to wear the new one. I liked it, it showed how much a part of the Imperium the later Traitors were prior to the Heresy. It's like how the Imperial Creed was penned by Lorgar or how the Guilliman's Codex Astartes contained quotes and treaties from multiple Traitor Primarchs.

 

I'm not arguing the point, just describing how I had originally thought of it. Do you remember where it specifies what kind of Aquila symbol the Emperor's Children were granted?

[Kol Saresk]

I know Horus Rising mentions the type of Aquila, but as far as I know, Betrayal is the only source that has a picture and IIRC, it shows an Aquila bearing lightning bolts. I don't have any of my stuff on me at the moment and won't until next week at the earliest.

[Conn Eremon]

Do you remember where in Betrayer the picture is? I'll skim through it. It's too bad I'm wrong, I actually really liked the idea that they wore the newer Aquila.

 

Edit: A skim through their section of the book has a bunch of pictures of the Aquila without any thunderbolts and the parts detailing it only refer to it as the Emperor's personal heraldry.

[Kol Saresk]

Hmm okay, fair enough. I guess I was mistaken. Apologies then.

[Kol Saresk]

Hey Cormac, I don't have any of the notes I took on Betrayal with me, but Lexicanum says to look on pages 102-104. Maybe there's something a bit more definite there.

[ForlorneRaven]

Thanks for your prompt responses! i m hoping to chart my progress on here as i get on with it! ATM i have only 7x MKIV marines (two of which are sergeants). I m planning on going mostly with MK IV with MK III and VI parts splashed around. 

I don't own a copy of the FW rules (£70 is a lot for a student in one go) however i m planning to have my squads operate in 5 man units if possible (i remember reading somewhere tactical squads have to be 10man).
In fitting with the theme of guerilla warfare, striking hard and fast then withdrawing, its going to be primarily infantry based being dropped off by gunships (which financially i can only dream of owning) using tactical, assault and recon squads with dreadnoughts providing firepower.

However a new issue has arisen, as i mentioned previously raven guard focus upon functionality over ornamentation, how could i make my officers stand out whilst still staying true to this view. Are the helmet with plumes enough/too much or should i simply paint rank markings(white helmets?)

Finally an idea has just popped into my head, does anyone paint/convert something to differentiate terran veterans from the newer recruits from the primarch's home world ?

Thanks again!

[Greyall]

It's my understanding that Terran Veterans are more prone to wearing the very Aquilas Cormac and Kol were discussing. Since Terrans tend to, well...love the Emperor even more than their Primarch.

 

So, Aquilas (not the two-headed one, though), lightning bolts...Aquilas with lightning bolts, etc. =)

 

Also, helmets with plumes are a no-no, it's the type of tribal display the Ravens find too fancy and not functional. A type of display they do like are giant raven skulls and claws, since it seems part of their rites of initiation is to hunt a man-size raven.

[Adra'Melek]

I believe veterans of the unification wars wore crossed lightning bolts or perhaps Aquila. These were by definition terrans.

[disease]

I would suggest searching for the picture of corax by Aerion the faithful - he is in bone armour with black trim. This could look awesome on terminatos and HQ units if the rest of the army is the opposite black with a few bone contrasts?

[Conn Eremon]

As nice looking as that is, it's not fluffy. Unless that doesn't matter, Corax was all-black.

[Kol Saresk]

Not all black. The BL covers all give him some rather faded, off-white trim. But yeah, black is pretty the go to color for the Ravens. Unless they're from Baltimore.

[Conn Eremon]

Deliverance Lost looks more like a lighter shade of black, but only slightly. Don't recall about the others.

[Greyall]

Also, taking the HH covers as THE look for Corax, he is a good deal more tribal than I assume his sons to be, the Ravens are not that big on feathers, though avian (and even other) skulls aren't that rare. But Corax looks like the full-blown archetype of the Native-American warrior. With a jetpack.

[Kol Saresk]

Hey, those Native American warriors gave what was once considered the most organized military in the world a decent run for their money. And that was back when they just had tomohawks and the British had muskets. Could you imagine a brave with a jump pack? That'd be awesome! Unless he was coming for you of course.

[Greyall]

It would still be awesome =)

[Conn Eremon]

Have to agree, Corax's armor has an amazing look to it. I honestly can't thimk of a better looking Primarch, though Russ does make basic, totally looks like another Space Wold armor look good.

[Kol Saresk]

The picture of Curze in Vulkan Lives actually looks pretty BA.