Razorback builds and merits

[bellator]

Basically I wanted to have a discussion about razorback assault squads and the role they fill in a BA army. Honestly, I am having trouble finding their merit and hope someone could show me the bloo....er, light!

I would say that their glaring weaknesses are thin armor and low transport capacity. Strengths include their speed and ability to outfit the squad and the back with decent weaponry. So then how are they to be used, particularly in an army where razorback squads are the only troops and objective claimers in your list. I'm pretty new to BA and 6E, but as far as I can tell, these are the uses.

Pure objective grabbers, hanging in the backfield to rush towards objectives at the end of the game.

-Self explanatory. Also very boring

Mounted ranged squad.

- Basically creating some synergy between the Razorback's weapon and the squad's special weapons. My concern here is that the range on the squad's special weapons (thinking flamer's and melta's) may bring it closer to the enemy than is ideal for such a small squad and weak vehicle skin, and that neither would survive long, robbing you of an objective claiming element no less.

Delivering assault troops to close combat.

- I'm skeptical that even a Razorback with a Lucifer pattern engine could get a squad in range to assault without getting popped first. Then there is the problem of the 6 marines surviving a turn of fire outside of their transport. Then there is the issue of 6 marines actually doing much damage in combat. Finally, I'm also concerned with the idea that if you are using a troops slot as a dedicated combat unit, there is a good chance they won't be around to claim objectives later.

I love the models, the mech aspect, and the specific BA aesthetic that goes with the Lucifer engines. Please someone tell me how to use these squads to good effect!

[Huginn]

I run jumpers so this is purely hypothetical. Target saturation is what makes this work. Multiple threats that the opponent has to use the same weapons to kill either the RB or other mech threat. This can include multiple RB squads and/or additional av11 or av 12 threats.

 

Other than tau and necrons no army has basic trooper guns that can glance or pen av11. Overwhelm them with multiple armoured targets.

 

I would run at least 4 RB's and some regular or dc dreads to get this saturation.

 

Also fast vehicles are a lot easier to hide behind cover as you move up the field.

 

Or you can run the RBs behind an av 13 wall. The BA codex does this well.

[p34ce]

I also love the model itself, but I've never felt the need to remove the Predator parts from my rhino hulls. I'm not sold on dinky 5- or 6-man units that will probably lose 1/5th of their strength on the charge, and even more after a disembark.

 

There are definitely some 5th edition veterans around here who probably have run a 3-6 razorback MSU list at some point, I'd be interested to hear their thoughts too. I missed 5th for the most part, so I'm nothing like an authority.

 

I could see it working okay if you had your 5-man ASM squad, with a bare bones Priest in tow to add a layer of padding to a cover save, and probably a flamer or plasma gun to threaten assaults or take pot-shots at tougher units. Support them with something vicious and troublesome, like a pair of  Furiosos or a sternguard unit, in pod(s). Maybe a pair of Baals or Stormravens. Baals would certainly take the heat off the razors, and can be positioned tactically from the outset.

 

The issue is, that even if your fast razorbacks get into assault range, the squad coming out has to stand there after firing their pistols, and eat a round of return fire, maybe an assault from something cheaper and more numerous. Rhino hulls are definitely not the way (yet, if the rumour mill is right). At best, you'd be turn 3 before doing anything aggressive with the unit, if it even survived.

[Boomkapow]

In my opinion, I would save the 5(plus weapons?) points and take a Rhino. In this scenario you would have room for any Characters you want in the squad. Plus if you are moving flat out you can't shoot anyways. Standard preds, Baal Preds, and Drop Podded things can fill any holes in your list.

[Emperors Immortals]

There is always the option of buying them for full tactical squads and just running the tank next to them while they walk, ive done that and its been pretty effective - 3 LC w PG razors will be able to redploy fast and threaten enemy armour/ heavy troops while working well with the 24 inch bolters.

[bellator]

I guess in a sense this discussion also centers around how to get something out of the scoring troops options in a BA army. The cards seemed stacked against a razorback assault squad both contributing damage and surviving to claim an objective. Would a mounted or unmounted tactical squad, or a jump pack assault squad be able to check those boxes more effectively in 6E?

[gory_v]

You sort of mentioned it earlier, but like you also mentioned, it's boring. I've heard of the av13 wall to cover the rbs, I've also heard of using cover as best as possible. As objective grabbers at the end of a game, they're not bad when you consider the discount for losing the JPs and throw the las/plas or AC on em. If you place some objective outside of your DP and in positions enticing to your opponent, it allows you to let your scoring troops play defensively while the rest of the army goes to work. When I see rbs being played, I don't normally see them delivering troops to the front lines unless the rest of the army is already further advanced up the table.

[knife&fork]

Objective placement is a big thing. BA is not a great codex for camping the deployment zone, so objectives should usually end up around the middle of the table or on you opponents table half. 

 

As for the razors; if you take them with minimal assault squads for the discount, don't bother with any expensive upgrades. Maybe a flamer or meltagun, but that's it. If you have a stormraven it's probably better to start the squad in that and just use the razorback as a mobile gun platform. EIther for midrange support or super aggressively if you take the TL HF.  

[Remtek]

I dont play mech lists, but it is my impression that at the highest level of competitive play, Razorbacks are staple unit. Them being fast makes running las/plas very effective. Since libby shield works on mech as well it makes them pretty durable and timeconsuming if you want to kill both the tank and the scoring inside. 

 

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/08/understanding-the-razorback-in-6th/  decent read.