Vulkan Lives

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Essentially a replacement thread for the one that was around.

 

Vulkan is a perpetual, or some sort of psuedoperpetual, and evidently can be killed by a artifact spear thingy, but it remains to be seen if you actually need to outright kill individual in question to stop them from respawning a few seconds later or if wounding would have the same affect if you were to kill them with a boltgun to the head afterwards. thoughts?

 

[Augustus]

Vulkan is awesome. That is what I took from the book. Also, I pity Curze.

[fission]

@ Vaddon : You should put before your spoiler : "BE CAREFUL ! MAJOR SPOILER ALERT FOR THIS BOOK !!!!"

[Vesper]

From what I read about the whole novel, it seems to revolve around a terrible plot device with no other interest than "well, that's it".

Feels like poorly made literature. I'll see if I get the chance to read it.

[Raleii]

 

Interesting that the Eldar asks Vulkan too accept being the "Gatekeeper", possible replacement for Magnus? Something along the lines of because he can't die, he can essentially keep them at bay? just a theory, as IIRC isn't the Golden Throne essentially a "gate"?

 

[Kais Klip]

I liked it, if more for the revelations than the actual literally mechanics of Kyme's. Biggest criticism I have of the book is the two-dimensiality of it, short of the obvious eldar child part that felt as a desperate counterweight there wasn't really any of the wrong vs wrong/right vs right mentality that I've gotten addicted to from the HH novels, most notably the beautiful Guilliman vs Angron argument in Betrayer (half of me is looking forward to the novels just for more of that). Here, short of the (again, rather forced) example of city of Khaartal, Kyme didn't really offer up any moral doubts in favor of Curze, or those against Vulkan. I don't know if its valid to call him out on his editor status, but to me the book felt like it ticks all the literary checkmarks Kyme is drilled to look for, but has little in the way of heart or personal spin; it was more science than art.

A lot are against the third person/first person mechanic, but I felt nothing wrong with it, and in fact I understand the need for a first person mechanic in terms of Vulkan (and hopefully the upcoming novel about the Emperor goes about it the same way) in that it needs to feel as if the primarch is telling someone a story, which grants an excuse for the lack of details or secrets which would otherwise be spilled in a third-person medium (storytelling primarch wouldn't bother going into his biological mechanics or about the two unknown legions whereas third person medium would have a feeble excuse not to).

The last teleportation sequence is something that kept me thinking after I read it. My conclusion is that this last sequence is a ruse by Kyme, a deception meant to make us jump to conclusions and say that that sequence is, in fact, that of Vulkan's final death (because he is away from "earth", which is a prominent theme). However it isn't that hard to look further and take into account the third-party eldar (Eldrad?) that appears both to John and Vulkan; once you take him into account I believe "earth" is in fact a hidden reference to Terra. Thus we can conclude that Vulkan's resurrection ability depends on Terra (the requirements of which is unknown), and the last sequence is in fact in-sync to the novel's timeframe; Vulkan was teleported away and is plunging back to the surface of the planet for a non-ultimate death. The little hammer's role of beacon can either be justified by it having a wide error margin (a bit iffy) or, more likely, the teleportation accuracy being disrupted by Curze's disruption field.

I am still somewhat undecided on the little hammer; it being a beacon would render the deception of the final sequence as a bit too obvious, but I think Kyme wanted to be on the safe side, so it is just as likely that the final sequence is an out-of-sync throw away meant to perplex us; Vulkan arrived alive near the beacon. There definitely is trickery on behalf of Kyme in the book; Erebus' arrival is a prelude to the possibility.

Raleii, on 04 Aug 2013 - 19:03, said:

Interesting that the Eldar asks Vulkan too accept being the "Gatekeeper", possible replacement for Magnus? Something along the lines of because he can't die, he can essentially keep them at bay? just a theory, as IIRC isn't the Golden Throne essentially a "gate"?

Also another deliberately indistinct term, one I think would be too obvious to stand for either the ripped webway or the actual golden gates. My feeling at the moment is that the "gate" is Cadia, and a small part of me thinks the world Vulkan plunges to is Cadia, and not where John and the gang were nor an indistinct world.

 

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

But Slau Dha says that he has to go to Macragge, and that Vulkan's already been there for a little bit. That'd make the planet he fell down to Macragge - I can definitely see the Cadia implication though.

 

[Kais Klip]

Well the only thing that really lets us guess what planet he is falling towards is the short description of it, and to be honest Cadia is a far shot, damned by that description since its supposed to be a verdant world like old earth was. The text itself points to the world that the gang is on, with the white cloud being the storms (iffy), but the context of the story as a whole points it to some other planet. 

 

Edit: throne, short of scouring the novels (there's bound to be a similar description as an easter egg) I think it might even be Istvaan V. 

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Nah, still think it's Macragge. When is UE coming out, btw? November, right?

[AfroCampbell]

I really liked this book. I liked the throw-backs to Isstvan V the entire time, because for me (I have read the books in order) it's nice to get these throwbacks to where it all began to unravel. It also seemed to actually progress the storyline in some aspect or advance on some detail, unlike some of the short story segments. 

My thoughts:

I was a little bewildered as to how this book was gonna end right up until i read it.... in fact during the Curze Vulkan fight, I was afraid that Curze was gonna kill him somehow.

I am intrigued as to where John Grammaticus' true loyalties lie..... this is gonna be a good storyline.

I am a little disappointed at how it seems every time we meet a character that is worth caring about ( ie Numeon, Ska, Leo etc) they end up a pile of meat by the end of the book. I liked how characters like Garro, Argel Tal, Sevatar, Loken, Numiel, even Lucius, we are able to build some bond with and everytime we see them show up in a book, it makes me care just that little more. It's a little disheartening to meet characters like Numeon to see them not last the book out. 

[Greyall]

I've read something along the lines of Erebus being described as very powerful in combat, can someone confirm that?

[AfroCampbell]

LOL na, he doesnt really fight in it. important role, but no epic fight scenes with him..... in fact... he is still injured

[Greyall]

By Khârn?! Well that's just epic =) Thanks, mate. I'll never forget the steamrolling our favourite berzerker-to-be provided Erebus with.

[Emperor's Furor]

On the issue of the Eldar and Vulkan

 

 

I thought Ferrus was their first choice, this happened in Feat of Iron but Ferrus was to suspicious and stubborn and the fact a daemon disguised as the silver wyrm tried to kill him at the same time meant that try was a failure and I think the Eldar in Vulkan Lives alluded to this

 

[Kol Saresk]

By Khârn?! Well that's just epic =) Thanks, mate. I'll never forget the steamrolling our favourite berzerker-to-be provided Erebus with.

 

No, it was after his face got ripped off by Horus in Fear to Tread. Part of the implication is that Erebus is actually still suffering from both sets of injuries, with the arena being first and then Horus basically right after. But losing such a large portion of meat in such a way set his body into shock and now he is very slowly healing where he was using the warp to speed things up after Khârn. That's why in Fear to Tread it looked like he wasn't injured even though it was concurrent and after Betrayer.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Erebus has become a major whipping boy. 

[Kol Saresk]

Erebus has always been a whipping boy. He has always done the will of those greater than him.

 

Now, this is a review. So be wary.

 

 

I finished this book yesterday around 12:00 AM and decided I would think on it. Some parts I was okay with, some I was eh. I'll start with the negatives since those are mostly what is on my mind.

 

Mostly I was dissappointed with the portrayal of the Word Bearers, specifically Narek, and Curze. In the case of the Word Bearers, it was a different portrayal than I'm used to. To me, it seemed like they were being made to be hunters, oppurtunists and rabid dogs. To be honest, I kept thinking of Night Lords for the most part.

 

However, I don't think the story would have worked if they were portrayed as the Word Bearers have so far.

 

For Curze, it just did not seem like Curze. Part of the Night Haunter's defining characteristics that were definitive, to me, were his self-destructive tendencies, his mania, basically quite a few of the things that were covered in the book. The deal breaker for me was actually a very small, yet important detail. One thing the Night Lordshave always done is that they have signed their work. They have always wanted people to know what they have done. They have a love for being on stage. If someone can't find out about it, then it just isn't worth doing.

 

Take Khar-tann City for example. Overnight, the Night Lords slaughter an entire population right under the noses of the Imperials. And then what did they do? They left a calling card. And they did it again by slaughtering at least the last of the refugees. And what did they do? They stayed behind and waited until people could find out that they did it.

 

But here, it is basically a giant, massive suicide plot. With no stage.

 

The entirety of Curze's plan ultimately revolved around the fact that he would just die in the shadows and that Vulkan would be stuck there as well. And that, is the problem. Curze in particular has a history of being in the spotlight and yet, here he just suddenly gives it up just so he can break one Primarch in such a fashion that nobody will ever know. Asfar as history would have been concerned, Vulkan and Curze would have just disappeared.

 

But overall, I actually did like the overall book. That picture of Curze in the maze is just awesome. I do recommend it. Overall, I would give it a 7/10.

 

[Emperor's Furor]

 

Curze wanted to die, he's suicidal, he didn't especially care if people knew what had happened, it's why he said he'd go after every other Primarch, the idea of him torturing them was just a side bar, he wanted them to end his life because he was sick of himself, vulkan got it right during his monologue at the end, he saw what curze had become and what he wanted and denied him that.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Im gonna say Im very impressed with how much Kyme has improved as an author over the years. While this wasn't one of those I had to read from start to finish, I will definitely put it on my list of rereads. 

[Kol Saresk]

 

Curze wanted to die, he's suicidal, he didn't especially care if people knew what had happened, it's why he said he'd go after every other Primarch, the idea of him torturing them was just a side bar, he wanted them to end his life because he was sick of himself, vulkan got it right during his monologue at the end, he saw what curze had become and what he wanted and denied him that.

 

 

I know. That was my problem with the portrayal. Almost everything about the Night Lords has pointed to them having some sort of stage, or at least putting themselves in the spotlight. Take Grendel's World for example. A planet close to Terra just disappears from the communication grid. Astartes Scouts are sent to investigate. These Scouts are able to go "Yeah, it was the Night Lords".

 

Curze's actual death is a very well-known event to anyone who knows something about the Night Lords, in universe. Why? Because of "Death in Vindication". When it was time for him to die, he had all of his sons watch it. Even when he thought he was going to die in the shadows, he made sure that at least one Legion's worth of people knew about it. And I am willing to bet that most of the Eastern Fringe found out about it not long after.

 

There has always been a stage and there has always been an audience. Dying in an inescapable maze where the only witness was the one who committed the deed was the person who was supposed to be trapped in the maze just does not fit that profile.

 

[Greyall]

That's Curze in your avatar, I assume, Kol? He seems to have a slimmer armour, somewhat resembling human musculature. And no claws?

[Kol Saresk]

It's artwork from the novel. :D

 

I only wish I drew this good.

[Emperor's Furor]

 

 

Curze wanted to die, he's suicidal, he didn't especially care if people knew what had happened, it's why he said he'd go after every other Primarch, the idea of him torturing them was just a side bar, he wanted them to end his life because he was sick of himself, vulkan got it right during his monologue at the end, he saw what curze had become and what he wanted and denied him that.

 

I know. That was my problem with the portrayal. Almost everything about the Night Lords has pointed to them having some sort of stage, or at least putting themselves in the spotlight. Take Grendel's World for example. A planet close to Terra just disappears from the communication grid. Astartes Scouts are sent to investigate. These Scouts are able to go "Yeah, it was the Night Lords".

 

Curze's actual death is a very well-known event to anyone who knows something about the Night Lords, in universe. Why? Because of "Death in Vindication". When it was time for him to die, he had all of his sons watch it. Even when he thought he was going to die in the shadows, he made sure that at least one Legion's worth of people knew about it. And I am willing to bet that most of the Eastern Fringe found out about it not long after.

 

There has always been a stage and there has always been an audience. Dying in an inescapable maze where the only witness was the one who committed the deed was the person who was supposed to be trapped in the maze just does not fit that profile.

 

Well, the key element here is the fact another Primarch is involved, one who considers himself the "kindest" of all the Primarchs and by dying to Vulkan that in itself is vindication in that if the nicest of them is able to murder a brother then everyone really is just as a monster as Curze, at least that's what I drew from it. I mean it started when Vulkan incinerated that Eldar, Curze saw a glimpse of the anger beneath Vulkan's mask of kindness.

 

[Artein]

@Kol_Saresk

About The Khar-tann City and a stage for all to witness....

 

It was a stage. Not for Imperial Army. Not for administrative workers. No. It was a stage for Vulkan. Curze didn't care for humans, this specific show in 3 acts wasn't for them.

 

At least I believe so.

 

I must say that I've enjoyed the book. More than I was expecting to.

[Kol Saresk]

Like I said, it was just that Nick Kyme's portrayal just didn't match my view. I still liked the book and it was still well written and I agree that Nick Kyme is progressing as a writer. I'm just saying his opinion isn't my opinion is all.