Vulkan Lives

[Conn Eremon]

Well, AD-B is the only one around who can lay the Perpetual question to rest, if willing. As it is, I believe they were planned. Things that interconnect across the novels were probably discussed as a group, though the individual books were approached alone.

[Kol Saresk]

I don't know if others just jumped at the opportunity. Discounting the Emperor, Dan Abnett has created two, John Grammaticus and Oll Persson, A D-B has created one, Cyrene and Nick Kyme created the last,

Vulkan

. And that is pretty much all four perpetuals. And it looks like if Grammaticus and that Ulthwé Eldar who said Eldrad was an idiot for talking to Fulgrim get their way, there will only be three. Again, discounting the Emperor who has been hinted at being a perpetual ever since Legion.

 

I think, general ideas are discussed and then people agree if it is acceptable to be used, and some do just latch on while others talk about the idea and formulate it into an overreaching concept.

 

For example, the whole executioner schpiel. Dan Abnett starts out making it something that a Long Fang said. And then Graham McNeill pops in with "The Wolves are being unleashed again." And then A D-B provides context in order to protect the Challenger Deep of 40K background from being filled. I don't think any of that was planned.

 

But then we get Mark of Calth. It was somewhat planned. I think everyone just sort of set their own boundaries and then went to work, but somethings like M'Kar leaving but then in Oll Persson's story, they are being hunted by the "M'Kar That Will Be" until he leaves to become the "M'Kar That Is". That sounds coordinated to some degree or another.

 

But there is still a....... cohesiveness missing that speaks of an overwhelming arc other than just the Heresy. And to be honest, once we get past things like "The Raven Guard do not have clones. They have mutants that they tell everyone are clones out of shame", I kind of like the lack of cohesiveness. It allows each story to feel like a piece of a puzzle that is still its own story.

[Artein]

Wasn't there another perpetual in Betrayer? The one that visited Cyrene after her resurrection?

[Conn Eremon]

Aye, though I can't remember his name.

[Scribe]

I think that was Grammaticus again actually, just gave a different name before he was roasted.

[Kais Klip]

Nah that is a different character, Grammaticus was elsewhere.

[fission]

 

- Vulkan Sigil : as said in the Tome of Fire Trilogy , it was a part of Vulkan's armour and look like a small hammer, so it seems to be the same in Vulkan Lives because it is said that Numeon take it near the explosion where Vulkan disappear on Istvaan. In "Firedrake" hestan can say where is the owner of the sigil (elysius) because it is a sort of beacon , and Hestan can sense it in a sort of mystical way. So , IMHO, its a beacon for the teleportation of Vulkan at the end of the book. So it seems that Vulkan fell not on Maccrage , because when Numeon fell on the floor he sense the beacon being activated. Or the beacon as moved to Maccrage since then.

 

- First sorry if I misunderstood something in Vulkan Lives (because I'm french) but something hit me in the book. Cruze try to put Vulkan in a despair mood, ok. But it seems he does that to relish a sort of monster inside Vulkan. A few times Vulkan have to concentrate to stop looking red... the description show as if a sort of anger entity is inside him. A sort of deep hidden double, and evil, personnality inside the gentle primarch. What do you think ?

 

- Vulkan personnality : I am a bit disapointed by Vulkan description/ personnality/ way of talking . Ok he is strong , he has his "special ability" which is described in the book. He is gentle ok . But in the past he was also described as having a great wisdom (horus heresy collected vision , index astartes ...) and I can't really see this wisdom nowhere in the book. Perhaps a little bit in Promethean Sun.

So ok he is tortured, mentally abused...but he cant really intellectualized what happen to him in the book. Thats the only disapointment about vulkan in the book for me, because there was also a lot of good stuff ..." its also a hammer..."

 

[Greyall]

Not exactly the Strong and Dumb, but Vulkan is indeed shown as sometimes being a little less sharp than his brothers, mainly because he is a good deal more naive than the usual. That means his points and opinions aren't laced with layers of "I just know it" scientific proof. It also means he sometimes doesn't seem to have the self-confidence to take action and is vulnerable to mind-meddling.

 

Fortunately, he's also got a set of very right and very solid values. And a very solid hammer.

 

On the "monster inside" part, I don't think it's anything as radical as, for example, Sanguinius, who does have an almost literal "red beast" inside. Vulkan's "seeing red" moments are normal for a demigod who, while surrounded by violence, has tried to remain a nice guy. It can't last forever, and when brothers start betraying and torturing him, I'd say it's pretty normal for Vulkan to feel the need to unleash something.

[Kol Saresk]

 

The other part is that Vulkan is currently dealing with a very acute form of PTSD. I mean, imagine what the last few moments of his memories are from the beginning of the book to the end. He hears about Horus going traitor. Goes to Istvaan V. Is killing nephews left and right while his own sons are dying around him. Finally thinks he is about to get some combat relief. Gets hit head on with an explosive artillery round. Wakes up only to get stabbed by someone he sees as Guilliman. Gets put into prison. Tries to escape but succeeds in blowing himself out an airlock. Gets incinerated. Gets crucified and has to watch as people are squished. Gets put into a puppet-machine and made to kill some people before he manages to kill himself. Sits at a dinner table filled with rotten food and people with no hands. Finds out his torture is more extensive than his memory. Gets killed by a fork. Corax breaks him out. They fall into a trap. Corax and Vulkan have to fight each other. Vulkan wakes up to psykers. Sparks up a debate about how far back psykers were messing with his head. Has to deal with a maze of constantly getting cut up, only to find two of his sons strung up and bled out, because he was too late to save them. Beats up Curze and then teleports into the atmosphere of a currently unidentified planet.

 

 

To be honest, if Vulkan had been "sane" or "wise" during the majority of the story, that would have been boring. It also would have meant that Vulkan is the only Primarch who is incapable of snapping, but it would have been boring.

 

I personally believe that his "wisdom" is not yet a current aspect. It is something that he will grow into as the Heresy progresses and he deals with his newly accumulated baggage as well a the fact that most of his sons are dead or dying. He has a lot to still go through. But part of the Promethean Creed is that any good piece of metal must be abused by the hammer before it can become something useable. And currently he seems to be in that "being hammered into shape" phase.

[Conn Eremon]

Kol, I would suggest putting the first paragraph into spoiler tags.

[Greyall]

I just hope the Big Green T-Rex gets proper time for the rest of the Heresy. He's got a lot of room to grow, personality-wise. I mean, a seasoned, scar-ridden warrior who secretly wishes to become a farmer (what do they grow on Nocturne, anyway, dragon-tulips?) may not be the most original character, but it sure is a great one. Especially because Vulkan might keep that naive streak even when he sees his brothers and nephews with seven arms and talking about holidays at R'lyeh. And that's just awesome, it speaks of mental fortitude.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Kol, I would suggest putting the first paragraph into spoiler tags.

Sorry, I honestly thought I had. I hadn't received my dosage of caffeine yet when I wrote that. Still haven't.

[fission]

Good point Kol.

In fact there is a lot to be see about Vulkan....wait and see

[Emperor's Furor]

There's a point in the book after the Death Guard unleash gas during the Istvaan V battle prior to the treachery, One of the Pyre Guard asks Vulkan whether they had such weaponry in their arsenal but Vulkan doesn't answer and Numeon tries not to meet eyes with either of them. Do you think there's something suspicious there?

[Kol Saresk]

Possibly. Its possible that all of those weapons were distributed through out all of the Legions and despite his habit of being humanitarian, Vulkan just kept them in a closet in a basement somewhere collecting dust until he ran into that one situation where he felt it was absolutely, one hundred percent necessary to do so.

[Greyall]

Man, the more I read/am spoiled about the Salamanders, the more I like them. Sure, they Exterminate like everyone else, but their humanity while in the middle of a ****storm is just awesome. Of course, as karma dictates, all they've been getting for it is even more ****.

 

Hope to see some changes to Vulkan in Unremembered Empire, namely him being an even more adamant defender of human values. From what I know from Vulkan lives, he's come out of Curze's torture with +10 to his Stamina and +11 to Spirit. Here's hoping he makes his point and releases his inner fire-breathing T-Rex, whether he sides with Guilliman or not.

 

Interesting note, though: why hasn't Vulkan been accused of weakness like Lorgar was at the time of the First Heretic? It's interesting because by now his book appearances show him A.Doubting himself and the Imperium's path a lot | B.Getting hit by an artillery shell and blacking out | C.Getting tortured and killed like a bag of kittens | D.Burning

 

Sure, in every one of his books he displays combat prowess, killing a Farseer (I think, either that or she teleports out), bringing down a giant dinosaur of sorts, almost killing another Primarch, flipping tanks, etc. But Lorgar performed some pretty nice feats as well and even after he won against the Bloodthirster, people were still trying to find excuses to name him weak. So it's kind of amazing Vulkan didn't get the burning 'W' iron.

[Kais Klip]

Man, the more I read/am spoiled about the Salamanders, the more I like them. Sure, they Exterminate like everyone else, but their humanity while in the middle of a ****storm is just awesome. Of course, as karma dictates, all they've been getting for it is even more ****.

 

Hope to see some changes to Vulkan in Unremembered Empire, namely him being an even more adamant defender of human values. From what I know from Vulkan lives, he's come out of Curze's torture with +10 to his Stamina and +11 to Spirit. Here's hoping he makes his point and releases his inner fire-breathing T-Rex, whether he sides with Guilliman or not.

 

Interesting note, though: why hasn't Vulkan been accused of weakness like Lorgar was at the time of the First Heretic? It's interesting because by now his book appearances show him A.Doubting himself and the Imperium's path a lot | B.Getting hit by an artillery shell and blacking out | C.Getting tortured and killed like a bag of kittens | D.Burning

 

Because he has bigger biceps than those who would make such accusations, unlike lorgar. 

[calgar101]

In Betrayer both Angron and Lorgar refer to Vulkan and Ferrus as weak. Or do you mean why us fans have not called Vulkan weak?

[Emperor's Furor]

I think it's because Vulkan chooses to be like that while Lorgar simply was like that at the time. Also Lorgar was pretty self centered while Vulkan was clearly very unselfish which I can see his brothers respecting a lot more. Also, and this is mentioned in Vulkan Lives the Primarchs tended to duel each other a lot, Vulkan says he was holding back when he faced Curze, I wouldn't of been surprised if several of his brothers acknowledged this due to their own ability to estimate their fellows.

[Greyall]

I meant the fanbase, actually =)

[Emperor's Furor]

Well, Vulkan is altruistic, that in itself is a form of strength. Also the first time we saw Vulkan he carried a great big hammer that was said no body else could wield. Vulkan is kind of looked down upon by the fan base but I think less than Lorgar because Vulkan clearly has a reason for his actions and goes about them, whilst Lorgar bitches and whines and pulled a hissy fit.

[calgar101]

Now if instead of having duels they had arm wrestles, Vulkan could show off his immense strength :P

[Kol Saresk]

Lorgar is willing to whatever he believes is necessary to ensure Humanity's ascendance, even if it mean sacrificing his sons. May not be a redeeming quality, but since we that Lorgar also does not want to fight but is willing to go to that distance does speak of his strength of will. Especially since we can see that he actually does care. How many of the Primarchs wanted to remove the Nails to save Angron? None. They wanted to do it so they'd feel more comfortable at the family reunions. Lorgar is the onlyone who actually wanted to save Angron. Not Vulkan, not the Khan and not Sanguinius, the supposedly most noble of all the Primarchs.

 

The road to Hell isn't paved with just good intentions, it carries the bones of good deeds and the skulls of good people.

[fission]

I think why others see him weak is because Vulkan havn't got a "fighter temper" , I don' said he can't fight but I think for him he did it only when needed.

 

But there is an interesting point : ok all the primarchs were made to be supergenerals and fighters . But not all have the desire or temperament to become a supersoldier or conqueror if they can choose something else .

 

Vulkan is a farmer/blacksmith/craftsman...

Perturabo a sort of builder (angel exterminatus)

Magnus a scientist/keeper of lore

Lorgar a bringer of light

 

Interesting that he was the only one , whose wish to be something else in the Imperium of their father, don't betray. What do you think ?

 

 

An other interesting point , Vulkan knew in his deep guts that Horus has changed in something evil , but he wasn't enough self confident to admit it . How much things in the heresy would have changed if he has done something ....

 

 

[Greyall]

When did he sense that about Horus? Was he in a position to do something other than participate in Isstvan V - and getting massacred?

 

@Kol: Lorgar wanted to save Angron because he served his purpose, a live Angron means less thousands of enemy Marines blocking his way into his Gods' warm embrace.