Vulkan Lives

[Kol Saresk]

When did he sense that about Horus? Was he in a position to do something other than participate in Isstvan V - and getting massacred?

 

@Kol: Lorgar wanted to save Angron because he served his purpose, a live Angron means less thousands of enemy Marines blocking his way into his Gods' warm embrace.

That's how we look at it because it is hard for us to rationalize how an evil thing like the burning of 100 worlds and the slaughter of their populations down to the last man, woman and child can ever have good intentions. So instead we just say that surely Lorgar always had an evil intention, that surely he doesn't give two craps about Angron. If Lorgar was just happy with having a daemon on his side, he wouldn't have flipped out when he saw a daemon possessing Fulgrim's body.

 

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions because there are people who see the only way to achieve something good, is to do something evil. Lorgar is that Primarch. He isn't twisted because of his life as a slave. He doesn't have a narcism complex. He doesn't have a messiah complex. He is the man who sees that in order to go forward, Humanity must be baptized in blood and fire. In order to save his brother, the Imperium that was willing to just write him off as a rabid animal must pay a tithe in skulls in order to perform this one miracle.

 

You see cold an heartless. I see a man who is willing to let the galaxy burn if it means saving everything he cares about.

[Emperor's Furor]

When did he sense that about Horus? Was he in a position to do something other than participate in Isstvan V - and getting massacred?

 

@Kol: Lorgar wanted to save Angron because he served his purpose, a live Angron means less thousands of enemy Marines blocking his way into his Gods' warm embrace.

It says in Vulkan Lives. Vulkan spoke to Horus twice in recent times, one to congratulate him on becoming Warmaster, where he decided to create a hammer for Horus but kept it secret. The second when he went to discuss Curze's actions and it was at this time he felt something wrong with Horus, so much so he didn't give him the Hammer he had forged for him as a present.

[Conn Eremon]

You see cold an heartless. I see a man who is willing to let the galaxy burn if it means saving everything he cares about.

Damn you, Kol. Fething damn you.

 

Now my mind has made a connection, albeit tenuously, between Lorgar and Dresden.

[Kol Saresk]

Hehehehehe. I think A D-B is a Jim Butcher fan.

[Greyall]

@Kol: Much as I like, that's a matter too deep for me to discuss right now. Suffice to say this is yet another piece of evidence that 40K's perspective-shuffling fluff does work.

 

On Vulkan and Horus: Poor Salamander, what was he going to do? Smack his brother with no evidence? Tell his father that the favoured son had a growing dakrness inside of him? I don't think even Ferrus, Russ or the Khan would've done anything if they sensed the same. They and Dorn might've asked about it, but surely they'd take 'It's all fine, brother, just the burden of leadership hardening my mood' for an answer.

[Emperor's Furor]

Just a little tidbit, once again Dorn and Horus are brought up as the elder brothers, Vulkan is trying to figure out what to do with Curze after his actions during their latest compliance and Vulkan refers to them as his older brothers and that Dorn is close to Terra and Horus is close to the crusade and he'd want their advice.

[Greyall]

I wonder if he refers to them as such due to his naivete. I can't remember the order in which they were discovered, but Horus - and Dorn, to an even greater extent - would definitely behave like older brothers to many of the other Primarchs.

 

On Curze, Vulkan left the bat alive, he's flown out of his reach by now. Although you mention compliance, does he have such doubts during a joint operation with the NLs?

[Emperor's Furor]

It was more Curze provoking Vulkan to get him to be angry, he just decided to use the inhabitants of an entire city to do it.

[Greyall]

Holy smokes...what, does Curze want to see Vulkan 'grow up' or has he always had a death wish?

[Emperor's Furor]

He just wants to see Vulkan angry and to be fair, he does see it.

[Greyall]

So, this is the second time Vulkan kicks Curze's arse, right?

[Kol Saresk]

Well it depends on how you define "kicks his arse". If you mean that Curze allowed himself to used for a punching bag in a very masochistic manner, then yeah. If not, then I dunno.

[Greyall]

Just to be clear: in both instances where Curze and Vulkan fought, Konrad let himself get kicked into fairy land?

[fission]

If I refer tto the chronological timeline , which was gave by someone of the BL staff ( sorry I cant remember the name) , Vulkan was in the first one to be find by the Big E (the 5th if my memory is good)

 

What I like about Curze is his masochist way of thinking , when he has his point of view to be prove....

[Emperor's Furor]

Just to be clear: in both instances where Curze and Vulkan fought, Konrad let himself get kicked into fairy land?

The first time on the planet during compliance, Curze let Vulkan kick his ass. The second time aboard the labyrinth Vulkan legitimately kicked his ass, although when it came to Vulkan delivering the killing blow Curze wanted to be put out of his misery. 

[Greyall]

Ah, so the second was a fair fight. How is the fight scene on the labyrinth, by the way, full of awesome?

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah, there's a pretty epic moment when Vulkan goes wrestler on Curze's ass.

[Kol Saresk]

Just to be clear: in both instances where Curze and Vulkan fought, Konrad let himself get kicked into fairy land?

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear: in both instances where Curze and Vulkan fought, Konrad let himself get kicked into fairy land?

The first time on the planet during compliance, Curze let Vulkan kick his ass. The second time aboard the labyrinth Vulkan legitimately kicked his ass, although when it came to Vulkan delivering the killing blow Curze wanted to be put out of his misery.

 

 

Yep. Although there is the question of how legitimate it was since by that time, Curze knew he would never kill Vulkan and yet he walked into the middle of a maze that no one was ever supposed to leave where he was giving Vulkan his hammer and doing everything he could to piss Vulkan off. It seemed more like one of those fights where someone fights back only to make the other person angrier and to give the appearance of resistance.

 

Curze found out that Vulkan will not kill out of cold-blood unless something tips him over the edge. Yet we see Vulkan constantly being harried only to find he was too late to save his sons(regardless of when they died), and Curze has moved out into the open, giving Vulkan something to strike at. And he is still trying to make Vulkan Hulk-out. And since Curze wanted Vulkan's killing rage to come to the front, Curze had to have known that if he were trapped in a maze with an angry immortal with a hammer, he would not be walking out alive, or at least healthy.

 

I don't know, it just might tow-mate-oh tow-mah-toe.

[Conn Eremon]

Aye, Vulkan was an early discovery, the sixth found. As we all know, Dorn was the seventh. But we know the Primarchs aged differently. Corax had only just saved his fellow slaves when the Emperor shows up, over a century after others had been found. And yet Corax isn't described as over a century old. Only explanation is that their pods traveled through space AND time, being ejected from the Warp across the galaxy and within a century and a half span of time. So while Dorn was found after Vulkan, he could still have been older. Horus, likely, was the oldest of all, the first ejected from the Warp.

[Emperor's Furor]

 

Just to be clear: in both instances where Curze and Vulkan fought, Konrad let himself get kicked into fairy land?

 

 

> 

Just to be clear: in both instances where Curze and Vulkan fought, Konrad let himself get kicked into fairy land?

The first time on the planet during compliance, Curze let Vulkan kick his ass. The second time aboard the labyrinth Vulkan legitimately kicked his ass, although when it came to Vulkan delivering the killing blow Curze wanted to be put out of his misery.

Yep. Although there is the question of how legitimate it was since by that time, Curze knew he would never kill Vulkan and yet he walked into the middle of a maze that no one was ever supposed to leave where he was giving Vulkan his hammer and doing everything he could to piss Vulkan off. It seemed more like one of those fights where someone fights back only to make the other person angrier and to give the appearance of resistance.

 

Curze found out that Vulkan will not kill out of cold-blood unless something tips him over the edge. Yet we see Vulkan constantly being harried only to find he was too late to save his sons(regardless of when they died), and Curze has moved out into the open, giving Vulkan something to strike at. And he is still trying to make Vulkan Hulk-out. And since Curze wanted Vulkan's killing rage to come to the front, Curze had to have known that if he were trapped in a maze with an angry immortal with a hammer, he would not be walking out alive, or at least healthy.

 

I don't know, it just might tow-mate-oh tow-mah-toe.

 

Yeah, there's a lot going on with the second fight, but I think Vulkan still surprised Curze.

[Kol Saresk]

No doubt about that. I wasn't trying to say Curze had it planned out to the letter, just that he had the end goal firmly implanted in his mind and was doing whatever he thought was necessary to achieve it. I think it was the fact that Vulkan became so violent in the process made him go "maybe I don't want to die just yet".

[fission]

Vulkan and Curze have also fight each other in the past , in mechanized cage . And Vulkan said he was pulling back because he doesn't want to hurt Curze ....

 

"It's also a hammer...." one of my favorite Quote....