Lysander in 6th

[moivin]

So i think i already know the answer to this question but imma gonna ask it anyway!!

 

What is the best application for this 200point lump of ugly?

 

I tried him out in his first game today and he was decidedly underwhelming, i put him with a 4 heavy bolter devastator unit to begin with then dashed him out when the enemy got too close, unfortunately he ran straight into some assault terminators which just ended up a complete stalemate.

 

Twin linking the heavy bolters helped a little for 2 turns, the unfortunate thing was that i was facing other marines instead of some more squishy things like eldar or tau like i was hoping for. also there was very little terrain (store table more set up for fantasy) so his bolster defences was quite useless.

 

Is he better off running about with some regular/assault terminators crumping heads or in a support role?

 

May only have a few months left to use him so i want to make the best of him.

[DarkGuard]

Lysander is tough, but he's not tough enough to go through Assault Terminators on his own. Anyway, I feel putting him with heavy bolter Devs is a waste, not least because heavy bolters aren't an ideal weapon for Devs to take (take MLs instead).

 

I've always ran Lysander with great results in a 10 man Terminator squad with 2 CMLs. This means you get a ton of rerolls with the storm bolters, get long range anti-tank firepower as well, and a good bullet catcher and combat character for that unit, IMO he shines there.

 

Putting him in Assault Terminators is also good as it basically means he'll get where he belongs, in combat. In this case run him in a Raider of some sort.

 

Putting him with Sternguard in a Drop Pod is also a sound idea, although perhaps the lesser of the 3 ideas. Still, I'd choose that over running him with Devs.

[Azash]

I've always ran Lysander with great results in a 10 man Terminator squad with 2 CMLs. This means you get a ton of rerolls with the storm bolters, get long range anti-tank firepower as well, and a good bullet catcher and combat character for that unit, IMO he shines there.

 

Putting him with Sternguard in a Drop Pod is also a sound idea, although perhaps the lesser of the 3 ideas. Still, I'd choose that over running him with Devs.

 

I have run similar builds to this with Lysander and both were effective. However I have a personal aversion to suicide drop pod sternguard so putting an extra 200 pt model in there always gave me fits. I only recommend the latter if you plan on backing him up in some way i.e. deep striking terminators, more drop pods, etc.

 

The first build really ups the game of shooty terminators and I would say it is by far and way the best use your going to get out of Lysander IMO. Gives you the option of running it as a defensive unit or holding it in reserve and deep striking. The only draw back...it's ALOT of points.

[DarkGuard]

I don't like suicide Sternguard units either. I never have. But they are a viable unit, and putting Lysander in there is also viable. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean the tactic is bad, so for the sake of completeness I saw fit to include it.

[Robert2004]

I can honestly say Lysander is a complete beast, and I have been running him with 10 sternguard, 3 combi melta in a drop pod and it had NEVER FAILED to get my first blood!!!

 

I sometimes combat squad the melta and shoot a tank or what ever and then the other 5 and lysander will blast what ever is in it! Using hellfire rounds wounding on a 2+, with re roll rapid fire bolters is scary!!

 

Tonight I downed a chaos lord on juggernaught tonight in one round of shooting from that squad alone, just forcing saves! Yes it is an expensive unit, and yes it will gather a lot of attention but he can tank the damage, literally a TON of damage! Tournament last week he tanked 35+ wounds from an entire eldar army, it. was. simply. epic.

 

I then tend to shoot for another round or send my lysander off to hunt something, usually their biggest scariest unit ha ha! Recently he has killed one C'tan and left another on 1 wound after taking them both on in combat. He has one shot killed belial(SP?), one shot killed a fire prism, wiped a terminator deathwing command squad, a few necron lords etc etc the list goes on.

 

He constantly does well for me, more often than not killing something big and helping the sternguard stay alive, re roll hits and provide a focal fire point so the rest of my army can do what ever they want.

 

I suggest sticking him in a drop pod with 10 sternguard and land it beside the biggest unit your enemy has and watch them go to work! =]

[Grizzly_bear]

I've also run Lysander in both the SG and tactical terminator mock up, both have been great at times and then other times he's come out being shot at alone, but then he'll murder anything.

 

He ran through a mob of 30 ork boyz, then proceeded to take on an ork warboss and nobz on bikes. Took them out and then went toe toe with the deff dread (FW ork mega dread thing) and at the end of the game he was still rocking 2 wounds. Not bad for 200 points I thought

[moivin]

I would be loathed to put him in a drop pod with sternguard as I do think 500 pts is a lot of points to get killed 2nd turn, I might try them dug in to some heavy terrain and have a similar tactic of splitting him out with perhaps some assault marines or ccw scouts nearby to lend a hand with numbers.

 

I dunno, needs playing with, thanks for all the advice though

[Robert2004]

Trust me, if you stick him out front to tank the wounds and take the odd look out sir roll on the other marines they will not be shot to death come turn two. I've had games where they have lasted the whole battle, alright not that often but still had it. If its the only scary unit in your army it will get wiped, all about target saturation my friend!

[Mannyu78]

Lysander is a great meatshield for my Sternguard. I can't calculate the effect he has on your opponent we he shows up in his backfield via Drop Pod. Give the drop pod a locator beacon and have some Assault Termies plop right next to him. All those glorious thunderhammers....

 

He can weather:

72 S4 AP3+ attacks or at worst case 21.5 S6+ AP1/2 shots. (Numbers calculated using BS4)

[Captain Idaho]

Well at worst case he'll weather 3 shots and die on the fourth.

 

Things to consider when using him; is he your Warlord and where will he end up if that's the case?

 

Dropping him in a Drop Pod could gift your opponents a free Warlord point. It's not impossible but it's advisable to consider your options. I know, using my Necrons, I'd rather my opponents dropped Lysander on me like that because I could easier put my whole army to killing him off and counter charging with Wraiths.

[Robert2004]

Well if he drops near you on a drop pod and you shoot your entire army at him, that is a lot of fire power which isn't going towards all the other nasty stuff in the army! He will wipe the floor with the wraiths too, the sternguard will aslo get first shot on them at 2 attacks each.

 

If at anything he is a good meat shield while the rest of your army does what ever you want it to do, and he will kill stuff. =]

[Captain Idaho]

He's not that tough. Wraiths have 3+ invulnerable saves and have Whip Coils and usually a Destroyer Lord with Mindshackle Scarabs...

 

Besides the whole army doesn't need to shoot to wipe out a few Marines, whilst you're potentially losing over 400pts in one turn, which is a good return for an army's shooting!

[Robert2004]

Think he is tough enough to weather that unit especially if you spend a round chopping down a few wraiths. I mean missiles will instant kill them being s8 and the sternguard do a lot of shooting at them too. They will be trouble in combat though no doubt about it, the mindshackle scarabs are the biggest problem there ha ha but hopefully you've enough sternguard to get a re roll during the challenge and can mop them up.

 

I've faced this combo A LOT recently playing a local chaos player who allies with necrons. Its trouble but think I've come out on top more times than enough.

 

Basically I am saying he is a beast and you should get him in your army, I don't go without him these days the effect he has on people is just fantastic ha ha.

[Tiger9gamer]

i dont think he needs to be a warlord if your going suicide melta stern guard. just place a Libby in the back field as the warlord!

[moivin]

ok, so to carry on this conversation, if you have berzerker drop unit hammering in 1st turn how would you back them up with the rest of your 1100pts?

 

I'm thinking a fairly balanced force but leaning to a little more ranged firepower to thin your opponent out and to give them some more worrying targets. thunderfire cannons and 4 ML devastator units being my first thoughts.

 

Or would some more mobile choices optimised for heavy unit hunting, mm typhoons for example, to bring the fight to your opponent whilst they close in around lysander and his buddies?

[Zombie P]

You could have twin vindies, but only if you drop Lysander on one flank and have the vindies on the other. Plus, it will be a bit of a give away of your tactics if you place them both on the same flank.

You could keep Lysander as your warlord, then get a TDA/SS libby and some assault terminators. Put a beacon on the pod and then GoI them over to the pod. This way you can counteract Lysander's incompatibility with shooting units by providing him a taxi into combat in the form of TH/SS buddies. Gives your enemy 2 massive priority targets, and you still have 760 points for all the boring stuff and the Lysander bomb sternguard.

You cant really go too long ranged though, because otherwise they will be isolated. Be a good idea to take a lot of mid to short ranged units, and then have a few long ranged scoring units at the back there. Then you can have the enemy too focused in their own deployment zone, leaving you the rest of the board really.

You can always use the pod with a beacon to have some fun with vanguard vets. they are another choppy unit, with instant landing from the beacon, you can guarantee a deepstrike charge with no fuss. It will hopefully be turn 2 (and not turn 3...) so there should be something to charge within range and Lysander can weigh his considerably might into the fray.

 

 

I think your second thoughts are right. Keep the pressure on the enemy, fast, mobile, hard hitting units. Quite a points sink but maybe even bike command squad...?

 

ZP

[moivin]

For 200pts I could cram in a command squad with 4 meltas in a lascannon razorback...

 

Full on heavy armour/MC hunting bastard unit.

[Axagoras]

Or use some scouts with a locator beacon, have them infiltrate to 18 inches, then scout to 12 away from the enemy lines, and gate there turn 1.

[moivin]

ok how's this, bearing in mind this list is limited by my collection.

 

lysander

 

10 sternguard

pod, combi melta, combi flamer

 

Tactical 1

10 marines

ML, flamer

Rhino

 

Tactical 2

10 marines

ML, flamer

Rhino

 

Stormtalon

Skyhammers

 

Landspeeders

2x multi meltas

typhoon launcher

assault cannon

 

Thunderfire cannon

 

Devastators

2 ML

2 Plasma cannons

 

Rounds out to an even 1500pts

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'd put that in the army list forum, actually.  You're more likely to get good responses.