Captain Semper Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I'm trying to build a list with some assault theme and had a look a RoW: Angels Wrath... My first reaction is that it's just not worth it. The limitations are far too strong for the benefit they give. The only exception would be the "Pride of the Legion" but no allies short of cuts on the possibility to include another legion's cool unit - even if it is for modelling purposes alone... What do you guys think? RoW, too limiting or balanced and fun? I need to point out that my approach is theoretical as I have yet to play a game... :blush: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 You need to start off by realising that the list isnt an optimised efficient style list. It is a FW publication and so the emphasis is on the fluff and theme rather than the efficiency of the units and the way they make combos. Yes the 30K list is probably one of the best balanced list I have seen in a long time, but there is still a lot of focus on it being themey. The Rites are a perfect exmaple of that; they are there to theme your list and make it look cool. They arent there to make the list powerful. Angels Wrath is a fantastic Rite, it makes the army a joy to play forcing you to write a list based on those limitations. Likewise I run the armoured one quite often and simply go around tank shocking anything I can... its amazaing how many times Marines will fail their leadership tests! Does that help? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3411961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 My original dream was for a Drop Pod Luna Wolves army but the Sons of Horus focus for units has kept me back until a few more books come out. Came close to a World Eater Angels Wrath lost. Rampagers and Destroyers with Jump Packs, a couple of Storm Eagles with 20 Tactical Marine Squads and a Caestus Assault Ram with a Terminator Squad. Whichever I do choose I'd like to base it around a Rite of War for the above reasons...it'll be cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3411977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I wouldnt underestimate Hit and Runs usefulness either... Ive run quite a few Rites of War lists and love them :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3412148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Thank you guys. Your comments are indeed helpful in that I was expecting people to agree with me in saying that the Rites are actually damaging the balance - but it appears you guys think otherwise. This in turn means I'll give it a second chance. I will move this thread to "HH Army Lists" later today and I 'll add a 2k list to give me feedback. since this wiill be an army from scratch this will also represent a shopping list. It will also be the core on which the army will expand. Just bear with me for a few more hours... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3412232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think it does massively effect the balance. But they also look like they would be fun themes to build an army around. I think they deliberately didn't make them 'gameplay great' to avoid people being cheesy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3412435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 So I worked out this list... any good? What do you guys think? Supposed to be all comers... Is the Storm Eagle absolutely necessary? Total points: 1,990HQ: 515Praetor of the Legion (Rites of War: Angel's Wrath)+ Paragon Blade+ Archeotech Pistol (master-crafted)+ Iron Halo+ Melta bombs+ Digital lasers+ Legion Jetbike w/ heavy Bolter Total 240Legion Command Squad+ Legion Space Marine Chosen 1 (Standard Bearer & Lightning Claw)+ Legion Space Marine Chosen 2 (Lightning claw)+ Legion Space Marine Chosen 3 (Power fist)+ Melta-bombs+ Jetbikes w/ heavy bolter [3] Total 275ELITES: 310Legion Destroyer Squad+ Jump packs+ Missile launcher equipped with suspensor web and rad missiles+ Artificer armour (Sergeant)+ Thunder hammer (Sergeant)+ Phoshpex bombs [3] (Sergeant) Total 310TROOPS: 770Legion Assault Squad+ 5 additional assault Space Marines+ Power weapons [3]+ Pair of Lightning claws (Sergeant)+ Artificer Armour (Sergeant) Total 385Legion Assault Squad+ 5 additional assault Space Marines+ Power weapons [3]+ Thunder hammer (Sergeant)+ Artificer Armour (Sergeant) Total 385FAST ATTACK: 395Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron+ Melta bombs+ Plasma Cannon+ Sky Hunter Sergeant+ Power fist (Sergeant)+ Plasma pistol Total 200Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron+ Melta bombs+ Multi-melta+ Sky Hunter Sergeant+ Power Claws (Sergeant)+ Plasma pistol Total 195 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3412487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Looks themey, the Storm Eagle is definitely not an auto include in my books. I havent got any experience with Jetbikes personally, though they look awesome fun. Just be aware you have zero anti air in this list, that is normally what the Eagle can provide a little of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3412630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Thanks Dono! The lack of anti-air was kind of a concernt to me... But in this list you can only counter this with air-to-air. So it's back to the Eagle, and painfully difficult (and expensive) kit to put together... :rolleyes: As I have the Preator already I'll start building this and see where it gets me. I'm thinking the Javelin Speeders could be a nice addition (instead of the second Jetbike squad) but are not included in the 'Betraya'l list. They might be in the 'Massacre' though! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3412842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Here is my take on air in 30k...don't worry about it. Look at the options. Eagles, hawks, and rams; all of which cost tons in money and points. Unless your local meta has these floating around...ignore anti-air, it's a waste of points. At 2000 point lists you are likely to see no air units. If you are still worried, get a squad or two of Tac Vets with suppressor web missile launchers and flakk, add tank hunter. Eat vehicles all day long and still be useful for other things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3413155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 You're right about the flyers... Too many natural barriers (cash cost, difficulty to put together, big projects) to worry about. In fact these are the barriers that put me off as well... Having said that, I don't think you can take vets in a Angel's Wrath army... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3413179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 You can take Vets in a SE (dedicated or not) or CAR, so they are still available. As stated, I wouldn't really worry about flyers unless you intend to play against Xenos/IGs too (instead of just inter-Legions warfare)... Now the one thing I don't like about Angel's Wrath is that Power Spears are not available in 30k (except for the Palatine Blades), and yet they would have been perfect with all the JP units having H&R... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3413372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 You can get a ton of melta on the ground with the drop pod rite of war! Praetor 125 Power sword bolt pistol Refractor field Orbital assault rite of war Legion tactical squad 185 X9 bolter bolt pistol Sergeant bolter Drop pod Legion tactical squad 185 X9 bolter bolt pistol Sergeant bolter Drop pod Tactical support squad 395 X9 melta Drop pod Tactical support squad 395 X9 melta Drop pod Tactical support squad 220 X8 flamer Drop pod 1505 points..... Pretty scary!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3413549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I would say that the eagle rite of war is kinda lame as the eagles themselves are really pricy and tough to build from what I hear unless you want to do a themey force. Drop pods imho are a waste (odd me being a WE player) especially at lower point levels because youre putting a lot of points into things that cant really contribute any shooting in anyway. The main thing that turned me off a really good drop list was reading the fine print of fury of the legion, where you cannot perform it if you have moved in the current phase, which is what you are doing by drop podding. Another thing that turns me away from these rites is the widespread availability of augury scanners in 30k lists, which hampers your ability to alpha strike. @playernotfound hahaha i actually thought the same thing as you did when i was creating a list, i hate not having spears for hit and run... As for the armored spearhead i would think it would be one of the most useful due to the lack of melta guns in regular squads and the priceyness of support melta squads. I would love to see people just tank shocking the hell out of no ATSKNF marines especially with mega spartans The pride of the legion is a good way to start your expensive FW army and is fun to spam termy squads I like the angel's wrath rite, but the squads you can use it for get very point heavy, such as the ASM squads and jetbikers. The command squads with jet bikes are devestating on paper but run upwards of 300 points with power weapons included Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3413559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Wow - all these replies! That's great guys - thanks for the input! @ Player not found: I'm with you on the SE and CAR - however the former was deliberately left out as I'm too intimidated to tackle the model. The latter is a cool 305pts and it's just too much to take as an add-on to a vet squad that will ultiamtely carry a single missile launcher... if a CAR is to be included I'll need to completely rework my list I fear... :unsure: I hear what you say with the lances... D And yes - this list is strictly for inter-legionary conflict.! :yes: @ jeremy: Melta galore! :woot: Good luck with all those drop pods! ;) @ depthcharge: I know -It is really not clear to me if the Rites are worth it... I'm just giving it a try. But Player not found got me thinking and here's what I came up with: Secondary Detachement!!! Maybe I can (and will) ignore flyers in a 2k list but if I expand it to a 2.5k then a secondary detachement is in - and Rites of War do not apply to it! :D However a self imposed 500pts limit is not enough as I need a compulsorty HQ and Troop choice.. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3414273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Yea, the second detachment is a great way to get a 'wave' effect in your order of battle. I've seen stable ground forces backed by a pure droppod or assult detachment. A centurian with an assult squad can be pretty handy for an armored Rites of War. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3415490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonable Commissar Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Ive tried Pride Of The Legion and its a nice way to get awesome tactical squads and Termis as troops but it becomes a very small elite army and since Termis are scoring in all lists anyway it doesnt seem to be that effective but it is a good way to get an army done with a few models and with using the traditional tactical marine setup with 1 heavy 1 special. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3416438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I use drop pod assault and I like it. I play against 40k armies so anti-air is a big thing so I bring a Caestus and a missile launcher squad in a drop pod(who come down first) for anti-air. The limitations of the various rites of war are extreme but not too bad and definately nod towards theme and rule of cool over efficiency and competitiveness. Storm Eagles shouldnt be as rare as they seem to be. It is an incredibly easy conversion from a Storm Raven, only requiring some plasticard and ability to cut straight lines and a spare multiple missile launcher to chunk on the top.. I would almost say its the easiest conversion short of turning lasguns into carbines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3420740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 What Legion are you building Captain Semper? Dark Angels? Rather than start a new thread to ask this and since it's on topic I have a question regarding 'second detachments' that have been mentioned. Could you say, have a 2000 point army split in half. One half with no rites of war, say a few tactical squads and tanks. The other half could have the rite of war - 'Orbital Assault' and be based purely in drop pods for example? So you'd have half the army deploy normally at the start and the other half pod in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278026-rites-of-war-useful-or-not/#findComment-3422698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.