Vulkan Lives (spoilers inside)

[lilMAC25]

I'm attempting to use spoiler tags here. Not sure if they'll work first attempt. Please cut me some slack They worked

 

 

I was absolutely geek for this book and IMO, it was a HUGE letdown. It did give us some insight into the Salamanders and it gave us another view of Konrad Curze.

 

 

 

 

I got lost pretty quickly as to whether all of the torture/escape scenarios were actually happenning or they were products of Vulkan's ruined mind (due to torture).  Also, is Vulkan ACTUALLY a Perpetual like Grammaticus??  Or is that more physch torture by Curze?  Where the hell does Vulkan teleport to at the end of the novel? Random coordinates in space?  What was the significance of the little hammer (that the author refers to repeatedly as a beacon) if not as a teleport beacon? Or was that escape by Vulkan just another product of his tortured mind? I'm sure that some of the confusion is intentional, but it did take away from the story.  This, IMO is the worst of the HH novels.

 

[Kais Klip]

I liked it, if more for the revelations than the actual mechanics of Kyme's. Biggest criticism I have of the book is the two-dimensiality of it, short of the obvious eldar child part that felt as a desperate counterweight there wasn't really any of the wrong vs wrong/right vs right mentality that I've gotten addicted to from the HH novels, most notably the beautiful Guilliman vs Angron argument in Betrayer (half of me is looking forward to the novels just for more of that). Here, short of the (again, rather forced) example of city of Khaartal, Kyme didn't really offer up any moral doubts in favor of Curze, or those against Vulkan.

A lot are against the third person/first person mechanic, but I felt nothing wrong with it, and in fact I understand the need for a first person mechanic in terms of Vulkan (and hopefully the upcoming novel about the Emperor goes about it the same way) in that it needs to feel as if the primarch is telling someone a story, which grants an excuse for the lack of details or secrets which would otherwise be spilled in a third-person medium (storytelling primarch wouldn't bother going into his biological mechanics or about the two unknown legions whereas third person medium would have a feeble excuse not too).

I'm attempting to use spoiler tags here. Not sure if they'll work first attempt. Please cut me some slack They worked


I was absolutely geek for this book and IMO, it was a HUGE letdown. It did give us some insight into the Salamanders and it gave us another view of Konrad Curze.

I got lost pretty quickly as to whether all of the torture/escape scenarios were actually happenning or they were products of Vulkan's ruined mind (due to torture). Also, is Vulkan ACTUALLY a Perpetual like Grammaticus?? Or is that more physch torture by Curze? Where the hell does Vulkan teleport to at the end of the novel? Random coordinates in space? What was the significance of the little hammer (that the author refers to repeatedly as a beacon) if not as a teleport beacon? Or was that escape by Vulkan just another product of his tortured mind? I'm sure that some of the confusion is intentional, but it did take away from the story. This, IMO is the worst of the HH novels.

 

 

1) Each perpetual's "perpetuality" is different as mentioned; Grammaticus' differs from that of Pius'.
2) "Vulkan can phoenix-back" is more or less a fact now of the narrative

The last teleportation sequence is something that kept me thinking after I read it. My conclusion is that this last sequence is a ruse by Kyme, a deception meant to make us jump to conclusions and say that that sequence is, in fact, that of Vulkan's final death (because he is away from "earth", which is a prominent theme). However it isn't that hard to look further and take into account the third-party eldar (Eldrad?) that appears both to John and Vulkan; once you take him into account I believe "earth" is in fact a hidden reference to Terra. Thus we can conclude that Vulkan's resurrection ability depends on Terra (the requirements of which is unknown), and the last sequence is in fact in-sync to the novel's timeframe; Vulkan was teleported away and is plunging back to the surface of the planet for a non-ultimate death. The little hammer's role of beacon can either be justified by it having a wide error margin (a bit iffy) or, more likely, the teleportation accuracy being disrupted by Curze's disruption field.

I am still somewhat undecided on the little hammer; it being a beacon would render the deception of the final sequence as a bit too obvious, but I think Kyme wanted to be on the safe side, so it is just as likely that the final sequence is an out-of-sync throw away meant to perplex us; Vulkan arrived alive near the beacon. There definitely is trickery on behalf of Kyme in the book; Erebus' arrival is a prelude to the possibility.

 

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

The eldar that is pushing for an agenda counter to the Cabal's is definitely Eldrad. You can basically eliminate everyone else besides him, Magnus, and the Emperor for the feats he's shown in the novel - communication across the galaxy, essentially.

And about perpetuality - I don't think Grammaticus is a Perpetual. Not in the sense that Oll, or Prytantis, or Vulkan are. The impression I get is that he has to be brought back every time by someone on the outside.

edit

I guess what Eldrad says about perpetuals being all different does go towards saying that Grammaticus is a perpetual. Not natural imo though

And whatever Eldrad did to Grammaticus will undoubtedly have some affect towards saving Vulkan.

 

[wizardofnoz]

 

 

I was not so disappointed by this novel as confused. I had never pinned Vulkan as a perpetual, nor saw any previous lore signs that he was one.

 

My take on the final teleporatoni is, as no one within the Salamanders knows that is a beacon, it hasn't be "activated", therefore Vulkan is in warp/teleport limbo until it is [activated]. 

 

Derp derp

 

 

[Kol Saresk]

 

It is not Eldrad. It does wear the Eye of Ulthwé, but when it first talks to Grammaticus it says how one of his kin attempted to recruit a Primarch and it went all kinds of bad. The only attempt so far that went bad was when Eldrad attempted to recruit Fulgrim and it ended with the destruction of Ulthwé's Avatar. Therefore, unless Eldrad refers to himself as one of his own kin, it is not Eldrad.

Erebus has always been a whipping boy. He has always done the will of those greater than him.

 

Now, this is a review. So be wary.

 

 

I finished this book yesterday around 12:00 AM and decided I would think on it. Some parts I was okay with, some I was eh. I'll start with the negatives since those are mostly what is on my mind.

 

Mostly I was dissappointed with the portrayal of the Word Bearers, specifically Narek, and Curze. In the case of the Word Bearers, it was a different portrayal than I'm used to. To me, it seemed like they were being made to be hunters, oppurtunists and rabid dogs. To be honest, I kept thinking of Night Lords for the most part.

 

 

However, I don't think the story would have worked if they were portrayed as the Word Bearers have so far.

 

For Curze, it just did not seem like Curze. Part of the Night Haunter's defining characteristics that were definitive, to me, were his self-destructive tendencies, his mania, basically quite a few of the things that were covered in the book. The deal breaker for me was actually a very small, yet important detail. One thing the Night Lordshave always done is that they have signed their work. They have always wanted people to know what they have done. They have a love for being on stage. If someone can't find out about it, then it just isn't worth doing.

 

Take Khar-tann City for example. Overnight, the Night Lords slaughter an entire population right under the noses of the Imperials. And then what did they do? They left a calling card. And they did it again by slaughtering at least the last of the refugees. And what did they do? They stayed behind and waited until people could find out that they did it.

 

But here, it is basically a giant, massive suicide plot. With no stage.

 

The entirety of Curze's plan ultimately revolved around the fact that he would just die in the shadows and that Vulkan would be stuck there as well. And that, is the problem. Curze in particular has a history of being in the spotlight and yet, here he just suddenly gives it up just so he can break one Primarch in such a fashion that nobody will ever know. Asfar as history would have been concerned, Vulkan and Curze would have just disappeared.

 

But overall, I actually did like the overall book. That picture of Curze in the maze is just awesome. I do recommend it. Overall, I would give it a 7/10.

 

[O'kana]

Ok so I'm on an iPad and can't figure the spoiler tag so screw it. Btw I have spoilers in here from the Tome of Fire books as well.

 

I wasn't happy with a large portion of the book.

 

The insight into the mind of Vulkan was welcome although it was a broken mind most of the time. I wasn't pleased with the whole immortal aspect that Kyme threw in. I just think a Primarch shouldn't be immortal. Without the threat of death nearly all his feats are diminished in their grandiose. Plus I think Kyme changed the personality of Vulkan from Promethium Sun. In it he sits above the battle waiting for the moment when he is most needed before intervening. In this he didn't have that same sense of testing his legion.

 

What disappointed me the most was nearly the entire story of Grammaticus. I know that in the end it is leading into another book. But at the moment I don't care about the fulgurite or what happened with the word bearers. Because in the end Numeon, Leodrakk and the other survivors could've died on Istvaan and it wouldn't have changed much. They all died and Grammiticus got away, that entire portion of the story is nearly useless. All you learn from it is that Grammitcus has a weapon capable of killing Vulkan. And if Vulkan had never been immortal that wouldn't even have mattered.

 

So basically I didn't care for the story of the escape from Traoris.

 

But I was not wholly disappointed by the book. My favorite scenes were of the recanting of the Battle of Istvaan. I haven't read a book yet that goes into what actually happened like this book did. Leodrakk desperate to find Ska'tavar really seemed to hit a note. (Brother to brother relationships usually do that for me). I would've like to have read a bit more about the Pyre Gaurd.

 

The story of Khartaan was ok. But the entire attempt for Curze to get Vulkan to kill him seemed strange. I remember Curze personality not being so petty in Soul Hunter. I did like some aspects of him though. He seemed childish in some sense. Like he was committing atrocities just to get attention. As if his murders were just an attempt for him to be punished, personally I saw the primarchs as beyond that type of behavior.

 

Oh and does anyone else think it a bit weird that master craftsman Vulkan would develop a teleporter that wasn't precise?

 

And the "beacon" I believe is Vulkan's sigil from the Tome of Fire series. It was described as a small forge hammer icon. And I remember Vulkan's sigil that Elysius carries being described similarly. And in that series Forgefather He'stan is able to seek it out through unknown means. He said that he could feel it. Or something like that.

 

Well that's my thoughts on the book. It's not clear whether Numeon lived or not. My guess is Kyme will bring him back in some way as a prisoner of Erebus or something. I personally think he should be dead. I was upset when I heard Garviel Loken had survived Istvaan III. Just because they are major characters doesn't mean we can't kill them off. That sense of loss is what makes them great characters.

 

But Kyme couldn't even let Dak'ir truly die or Tsu'gan or Fugis. (Though I did like the idea of Tsu'gan hunting Marines Malevolent.)

[Brother Heinrich]

Garbage.

 

Haven't even finished the book. I'm about halfway through and it feels like crawling through a trench under fire. Nothing makes sense, there's :cuss everywhere, and all I want is for it to end.

 

Laundry List of Dislike:

 

- Vulkan has no personality, he's about as dry as the paper in the book. Every other description of a Primarch has been one of towering personality. Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, Dorn (Especially), Guilliman, Horus, Magnus, Russ, even Corax and the Alpha Twins; They are all massively awe-inspiring characters, as Primarchs should be. Vulkan felt no more important or awe inspiring than if I'd been reading about Dak'ir. Just a whole lot of, "Oh I'm burning," "Oh I'm sad," "Oh I'm awake again," "Oh another stilted flashback."

 

- The portrayal of Curze infuriated me, being a rabid Night Lords fan, I am no doubt far too critical of the authors that touch the VIII Legion, but at this point I'd be ready to slap an "AD-B ONLY" sticker on them. Kyme made Curze seem like some hokey, Dr. Evil-esque villain, chuckling in the corner and wringing his hands while petting his cat. Way to take the Night Lords cliches back a decade or so. "Yes we are so evil, look at our bat wings, yessss..." 

- The Word Bearers don't feel like Word Bearers at all, it's like they're some weird hybrid blend of Raven Guard, Alpha Legion and ne'er do well's. The part where they kill the Two Salamanders and the Raven Guard guy with sniper fire was retarded. :cussing Master sniper of the Iron Hands McGee comes on back to camp saying, "yeah we're totes being followed, but everyone keep on staying casual." is absurd. Legionaries are more highly trained than :cussing Delta operators, you even have an itch that someone knows your hideout or base's location, it's full alert, everyone behind cover or scanning for enemies. especially since el-duderino has his wonderful thermal imaging Star Trek visor. Totally broke it for me, tactical and technical accuracy is a key for me in military sci-fi. I don't care about Primarchs lifting Titans or fighting in the void without a helmet, they're :cussing Primarchs, that's how they do. Legionnaires however better know their :cuss, especially if the writer gives them awesome gadgets that they completely fail to utilize.

- Further on the Word Bearers front, that opening segment where they chase ONE woman down in the streets was ridiculous. I could see that from my boys in Midnight because fear is like cocaine to them. The Word Bearers are about a higher purpose though, thats why they have hordes of minions, they do the goddamn kidnapping. Not to mention the idiocy of that line where, after he stabs and lifts her off the ground, he says "we mustn't spill a drop." What is this some cheesy Vampire flick? YOU JUST OPENED HER UP WITH A KNIFE THE SIZE OF A SWORD. Your already spilling half of what bodily fluids she has d-bag.

 

- Also, naming. As a casual writer I know fictional names are a massively frustrating point. You don't want to steal anyone else's, re-use your own, or make ones that sound cheesy or lame. They have to be convincing and fit the character so that when someone says them, you instantly associate them with who that character is. Kyme however, managed to make everything short of Curze, Vulcan and Grammaticus, sound like variations of Karatatrar'ana'naaa aana. I was confused most of the time as to whether or not I was reading about a planet or a person. Come on man, choose your names better. 

 

All in all, I may not finish this. It just feels like 30k Bolter Porn laced with terrible wordy metaphors that don't make sense half the time. A plot line that's convoluted and confusing to the reader, characters no one cares about, and absolute garbage representations of every Legion involved.

 

[Nineswords]

I just gave Scorched Earth a 1/10. I'm going to really struggle with Vulkan Lives! 

[Chaeron]

 

Title was a bit of a spoiler in itself..!

 

[Aegnor]

Just finished it. Like most of Nick Kyme's work, it leaves me a bit confused. He usually has lots of cool stuff happening in his novels, stuff I would geek out over massively. I love the Salamanders to bits and was so psyched to see Vulkan finally. So, in this case again, I can't fault most of the content of this novel - it is exactly what I would've liked it to have in the book.

 

But... and it's a big but (made hesitantly as his abilities as an author far exceed my own and I know it must be damn hard writing a novel) Kyme's prose and pacing is pretty patchy and at times this, like his other novels, drags to the point that I gave up on it for a couple of days. It's like a movie with a great script but really wooden actors in all the key roles. Curze was probably the exception to this. I didn't mind the portrayal of him at all and thought it quite in keeping with other portrayals, including ADB's.

 

I don't also understand what happened at the end.

Was the Sigil the homer for the teleporter or not? If it was, why did Vulkan teleport to space? Did Grammaticus take the sigil and dump in it space, without that being shown? If not, what was the point of it?

 

 

I liked the other big 'revelations' in this book - they open up some really interesting possibilities.

 

That said, the ultimate resolution of the sideplots was a let down in my view as well.

[helterskelter]

Literally just finished it. I do not see in a million years how nick kyme should be allowed to collaborate with dan abnett.. I dont know how to do spoiler tags on a tablet so SPOILER ALERT*********

vulkan has some pretty decent sanity at the end of vulkan lives.. in unremembered empire its just gone.. puff. Magic.

 

nick kyme. Short sentences. Very irritating. Until someone gets a bolter in their hand, and all of a sudden everything flows like a river.

why, imperator why?!

at least I read this book on the toilet coz thats how I feel about it.

[lilMAC25]

Literally just finished it. I do not see in a million years how nick kyme should be allowed to collaborate with dan abnett.. I dont know how to do spoiler tags on a tablet so SPOILER ALERT*********

vulkan has some pretty decent sanity at the end of vulkan lives.. in unremembered empire its just gone.. puff. Magic.

nick kyme. Short sentences. Very irritating. Until someone gets a bolter in their hand, and all of a sudden everything flows like a river.

why, imperator why?!

at least I read this book on the toilet coz thats how I feel about it.

That

Is

:cuss-ing

AWESOME!

[lilMAC25]

Garbage.

 

Haven't even finished the book. I'm about halfway through and it feels like crawling through a trench under fire. Nothing makes sense, there's :cuss everywhere, and all I want is for it to end.

 

Laundry List of Dislike:

 

- Vulkan has no personality, he's about as dry as the paper in the book. Every other description of a Primarch has been one of towering personality. Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, Dorn (Especially), Guilliman, Horus, Magnus, Russ, even Corax and the Alpha Twins; They are all massively awe-inspiring characters, as Primarchs should be. Vulkan felt no more important or awe inspiring than if I'd been reading about Dak'ir. Just a whole lot of, "Oh I'm burning," "Oh I'm sad," "Oh I'm awake again," "Oh another stilted flashback."

 

- The portrayal of Curze infuriated me, being a rabid Night Lords fan, I am no doubt far too critical of the authors that touch the VIII Legion, but at this point I'd be ready to slap an "AD-B ONLY" sticker on them. Kyme made Curze seem like some hokey, Dr. Evil-esque villain, chuckling in the corner and wringing his hands while petting his cat. Way to take the Night Lords cliches back a decade or so. "Yes we are so evil, look at our bat wings, yessss..." 

 

- The Word Bearers don't feel like Word Bearers at all, it's like they're some weird hybrid blend of Raven Guard, Alpha Legion and ne'er do well's. The part where they kill the Two Salamanders and the Raven Guard guy with sniper fire was retarded. :cussing Master sniper of the Iron Hands McGee comes on back to camp saying, "yeah we're totes being followed, but everyone keep on staying casual." is absurd. Legionaries are more highly trained than :cussing Delta operators, you even have an itch that someone knows your hideout or base's location, it's full alert, everyone behind cover or scanning for enemies. especially since el-duderino has his wonderful thermal imaging Star Trek visor. Totally broke it for me, tactical and technical accuracy is a key for me in military sci-fi. I don't care about Primarchs lifting Titans or fighting in the void without a helmet, they're :cussing Primarchs, that's how they do. Legionnaires however better know their :cuss, especially if the writer gives them awesome gadgets that they completely fail to utilize.

- Further on the Word Bearers front, that opening segment where they chase ONE woman down in the streets was ridiculous. I could see that from my boys in Midnight because fear is like cocaine to them. The Word Bearers are about a higher purpose though, thats why they have hordes of minions, they do the goddamn kidnapping. Not to mention the idiocy of that line where, after he stabs and lifts her off the ground, he says "we mustn't spill a drop." What is this some cheesy Vampire flick? YOU JUST OPENED HER UP WITH A KNIFE THE SIZE OF A SWORD. Your already spilling half of what bodily fluids she has d-bag.

 

- Also, naming. As a casual writer I know fictional names are a massively frustrating point. You don't want to steal anyone else's, re-use your own, or make ones that sound cheesy or lame. They have to be convincing and fit the character so that when someone says them, you instantly associate them with who that character is. Kyme however, managed to make everything short of Curze, Vulcan and Grammaticus, sound like variations of Karatatrar'ana'naaa aana. I was confused most of the time as to whether or not I was reading about a planet or a person. Come on man, choose your names better. 

 

All in all, I may not finish this. It just feels like 30k Bolter Porn laced with terrible wordy metaphors that don't make sense half the time. A plot line that's convoluted and confusing to the reader, characters no one cares about, and absolute garbage representations of every Legion involved.

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[BlueRingedCephalopodofKaos]

Garbage.

Haven't even finished the book. I'm about halfway through and it feels like crawling through a trench under fire. Nothing makes sense, there's :cuss everywhere, and all I want is for it to end.

Laundry List of Dislike:

- Vulkan has no personality, he's about as dry as the paper in the book. Every other description of a Primarch has been one of towering personality. Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, Dorn (Especially), Guilliman, Horus, Magnus, Russ, even Corax and the Alpha Twins; They are all massively awe-inspiring characters, as Primarchs should be. Vulkan felt no more important or awe inspiring than if I'd been reading about Dak'ir. Just a whole lot of, "Oh I'm burning," "Oh I'm sad," "Oh I'm awake again," "Oh another stilted flashback."

- The portrayal of Curze infuriated me, being a rabid Night Lords fan, I am no doubt far too critical of the authors that touch the VIII Legion, but at this point I'd be ready to slap an "AD-B ONLY" sticker on them. Kyme made Curze seem like some hokey, Dr. Evil-esque villain, chuckling in the corner and wringing his hands while petting his cat. Way to take the Night Lords cliches back a decade or so. "Yes we are so evil, look at our bat wings, yessss..."

- The Word Bearers don't feel like Word Bearers at all, it's like they're some weird hybrid blend of Raven Guard, Alpha Legion and ne'er do well's. The part where they kill the Two Salamanders and the Raven Guard guy with sniper fire was retarded. :cussing Master sniper of the Iron Hands McGee comes on back to camp saying, "yeah we're totes being followed, but everyone keep on staying casual." is absurd. Legionaries are more highly trained than :cussing Delta operators, you even have an itch that someone knows your hideout or base's location, it's full alert, everyone behind cover or scanning for enemies. especially since el-duderino has his wonderful thermal imaging Star Trek visor. Totally broke it for me, tactical and technical accuracy is a key for me in military sci-fi. I don't care about Primarchs lifting Titans or fighting in the void without a helmet, they're :cussing Primarchs, that's how they do. Legionnaires however better know their :cuss, especially if the writer gives them awesome gadgets that they completely fail to utilize.

- Further on the Word Bearers front, that opening segment where they chase ONE woman down in the streets was ridiculous. I could see that from my boys in Midnight because fear is like cocaine to them. The Word Bearers are about a higher purpose though, thats why they have hordes of minions, they do the goddamn kidnapping. Not to mention the idiocy of that line where, after he stabs and lifts her off the ground, he says "we mustn't spill a drop." What is this some cheesy Vampire flick? YOU JUST OPENED HER UP WITH A KNIFE THE SIZE OF A SWORD. Your already spilling half of what bodily fluids she has d-bag.

- Also, naming. As a casual writer I know fictional names are a massively frustrating point. You don't want to steal anyone else's, re-use your own, or make ones that sound cheesy or lame. They have to be convincing and fit the character so that when someone says them, you instantly associate them with who that character is. Kyme however, managed to make everything short of Curze, Vulcan and Grammaticus, sound like variations of Karatatrar'ana'naaa aana. I was confused most of the time as to whether or not I was reading about a planet or a person. Come on man, choose your names better.

All in all, I may not finish this. It just feels like 30k Bolter Porn laced with terrible wordy metaphors that don't make sense half the time. A plot line that's convoluted and confusing to the reader, characters no one cares about, and absolute garbage representations of every Legion involved.

You evidently haven't gotten to the truly bad parts yet ...

[augustmanifesto]

Overall, this book was the first for me in the series since Know No Fear.

The escape-become-trapped-again sequence was pretty poorly and (boringly) done. While the device -- which involved as much or more interaction among Primachs than in any other book to date --  could have been effective in telling the reader more about Vulkan, Cruze and perhaps interesting background of their Legion. Instead, we learned nothing new or interesting about Cruze and regarding Vulkan, we learned only that is a perpetual (which is kind of cool, admittedly) and is really, really, really boring.

If the extent to which Cruze is a psychopath is he likes torturing people and trying to kill them (his first attempt at killing Vulkan was fairly early on), then color me unimpressed.

Heck, even the post-mortem deployment of the Gorgon was a wasted narrative asset, it resulted in nothing. What else could those scattered pages of interaction between Ferrus and Vulkan resulted in? A wasted opportunity for sure -- especially because we know so little about either Ferrus or Vulkan.

 

[Aegnor]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the appearances of the Gorgon were about. I mean I get they were a manifestation of Vulkan's deteriorating sanity, but they felt like they were meant to go somewhere - even in terms of Vulkan's inner monologue, but didn't really in the end.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I feel like I could dogpile in about Vulkan Lives and Unremembered Novel being complete wastes of time, but it seems that's been pretty well covered.

 

Usually I'll listen to them while I'm working on something, and then a second time in case I missed anything. I didn't even see a reason to give Vulkan Lives another try. I figured whatever I'd missed, I was better off that way. Promethean Sun was quite similar. I'm starting to wonder if Kyme is just the one author willing to write about the Salamanders. Not that I can really blame him. They're pretty much a throwaway Legion when it comes to the Heresy, insofar as that they are basically wiped out in one of the earliest battles, and there's never been a ton of focus or material on them in 40K to build off of either.

[helterskelter]

Its a bloomin shame because I've always enjoyed the look of salamanders, the idea of the promethean cult, and walls of firey death. Such a waste

[Chaeron]

Kyme does at least give them some personality and something more - if you can get around the fact that the title of the novel is pretty much all you take from it, then it's fine. But agree with many of the criticisms that have been levied throughout, especially re:

the Gorgon, etc.

.