Force Stave vs Force Axe?

[Azash]

Looking at finally building a terminator librarian instead of proxing one. Partly because building custom HQ's is fun and I haven't done it in awhile.

 

The one question I have though is which weapon to equip the character with? I can see merits for both and pro's and con's list is pretty much even on these to; so I figured I would get your input.

 

Force Staff:

+2 St and Ap4 but goes normal initiative. So no AP2 but the increased strength and higher initiative means you have a chance to landing more wounds early on and combined with the force weapon ability you have a good shot against MC's. However do the Ap4 of the weapon your target has a better chance of saving those wounds.

 

Force Axe:

+1 str ap 2 but goes I1. So while you go last in combat sequence the wounds you do land have a better chance of dodging the targets saving throw and actually wounding. Combined with the force ability you can again eliminate MC's in one shot. However due to the lower str bonus your odds of wounding tougher opponents is decreased slightly and I1 means your going last so this gives an opponent a window to take you out before you swing.

 

 

So what has been your experience between the two. Thanks for your input!

 

P.S. Barring major changes to weapons options and psychic powers in the new codex we are talking a pretty standard kit out beyond the weapon. Terminator armor, Storm Shield, null zone, and then i usually like avenger or GoI. Personally I vary rarely spend the points to make my libby's Epistolary's.

[JamesI]

Playing Thousand Sons, I have experience with both axes and staves and swords for force weapons.  Genearlly I go with an axe, since I4 isn't high to begin with and that Ap2 is really great.

 

If you face a lot of non-power armor stuff than a staff might be a better choice.  If Librarians were I5, I think the staff might be the better choice.

[DarkGuard]

If you're going for TDA and SS there's only one option, the force axe. The force axe outclasses the force stave in this set up. You still have a high strength, and the AP2 is very, very useful. The fact your strike last means little considering that you are very well armoured.

 

On a PA Libby, the force axe becomes a liability, and so the force stave is better there due to the better strength and striking at I4. 

[JamesI]

I don't know, I still always seem to prefer the axe.  Maybe its because my sorcerers all have 3++ or 4++ saves. 

 

But even on my Blood Angels librarian with no invul save I always prefer my axe model to other models.

[Kaedes Nex]

Force Axe and SS in TDA and Force Sword in PA for me, always.

[knife&fork]

I think it's important to consider who else is in the unit with the librarian. If he's the only character relying on a I1 weapon to do damage is extremely risky. 

[Grizzly_bear]

Wouldn't 'quickening' make you I10 then? Even with a force axe?

[Fibonacci]

An Axe is a better choice when it comes to actually causing unsaved wounds except for a few very specific cases -- like a S4 attacker against a T7 target in power armor and a 4++ invulnerable save. The only other thing that is close is against TDA with Stormshields but an axe still  has the edge ("edge" ... ha).  Against most everything else an axe will cause twice or more unsaved wounds. 

 

So part of the choice is also what you expect him to go against.  If it is TDA of any form there is such an overwhelming skew towards a power axe it is really not really a choice at all.  Against most  MC HQ (high toughness, 3+/4++ or similar) a staff is almost as good as an axe and even slightly better on anything with just an invilnerable save -- or it may be more accurate to say the axe suks as bad as a staff because it is not that a staff has become any better, it's that when you can remove AP from the equation you have lost the axe's best advantage.  Because against MEQ, a staff is by far the worst choice of weapons. 

 

If you NEED to go first -- well, get a better Initiative than 4 but that's a different topic -- take a sword.  If you need to be sure that what you hit dies, take an axe because almost any target that will kill him before he can swing will not likely be phased by a S=user AP3 weapon that can only cause 1/3 of the number unsaved wounds per round. 

 

Anyway, that's the way I look at it.

[Azash]

Thanks for input folks all very good ponts. I believe I will go with the axe...I snagged the chaos terminator scorer/lord kit to cannibalize for bits and it's got a nice power axe that will work. Just needs a little Imperializing :)

 

Thanks

[Zombie P]

I use dwarf axes. And only run an axe on TDA. 

 

Staff or sword on PA, depending on meta.

 

ZP

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Staff or sword on PA, depending on meta.

 

And on what discipline you're running.  Our best Codex powers are support ones rather than combat ones; same with Telepathy and Telekinesis.  If you're running any of these, I'd go with a force staff because it gives the Librarian an advantage of Strength if he's unable to avoid close combat; sure, the AP3 of a sword would be nice, if I'm only getting three swings, I want to make sure any hits I land are actually going to wound.

 

If you're running Biomancy, on the other hand, run a force sword.  The reason being that Warp Speed and Iron Arm can both drastically increase your damage output and put you in a position where the Strength of user isn't a handicap and you can actually put that AP3 to work reliably.  Ancillary to that is Endurance, where FNP can keep you alive against higher Initiative enemies long enough to get in your swings in the first place.