Second look at Cultists

[minigun762]

I'll admit that I only glanced over Cultists when reviewing the book. I play Chaos Marines because I want to field actual Chaos Marines ...

That said, as I mull new ideas over I realize that a mix of Marines and Cultists has some potential. Freeing up my more expensive and mobile Marines to go claim objectives while my fodder go camping appears to be a better use of resources.

They also have potential in assault, simply due to cheap bodies and two attacks.

 

Now what stops me from fully utilizing them is that Daemons off much of the same benefits but with some significant bonuses for a fairly meager point increase.

[Sception]

The points increase on daemons is actually pretty significant - they cost like twicish as much, though at least they won't run, and plagues are more durable.

 

Cultists seem to work best as a large retinue for a fearless HQ - delivering abby or typhus or Khârn across the board, and daemons can't do that since we can't join their units. cultists also work as cheap reserves to move onto backfield objectives later in the game. plagues can do this, but cost more points.

 

Dettes, letters, horrors - these are all very different units, they're not bad, but they don't really compare one way or another to cultists, they just do different things.

[minigun762]

I see the issue with price jump but to be honest both cultists and daemons feel cheap compared to 200+ points for CSMs.

 

Excellent point about Cultists serving as bullet catchers for HQs. I know most people prefer biker or steed HQs but I dislike both of those options personally. I do wonder how effective of a delivery system they can be when they're only walking up the board.

 

I think that daemon troops and cultists are fairly similar with the exception of Horrors.

 

You're either camping them in cover or an objective or you're walking up the board hoping to assault things. The abilities differ but not the roles.

 

That's just my gut feeling when comparing them to marines.

[Deadman Wade]

Cultists are great for many things. If my opponent has drop pods, I spread them wide to protect my tanks. They are good meatshield against assault armies like orks - two lines of cultists can give you a turn a two to either fall back with csm or get a better position. They are decent in assault if given flamers. Also, they are squishy, so they usually attract huge amount of small arms fire, autocannons and blast weapons, so you don't have to worry about all this hitting marines.

And even two squads of 30 cost slightly more than, for example, plague marines with rhino.

I think that not using them handicaps CSM quite hard.

Daemons are what I want to try, but I can't make a list where they would fit into my army. Daemon units are too specialized for my taste, while cultists are always useful.

[AekoldHelbrass]

with Ld7 cultists are running too fast from simple shooting. When I'm playing against other CSM, there is almost no point in charging them because they have more than 50% chance to fail morale test. The best use for cultists I've found so far - being Khârn's guard, 20 to 30 bodies, ccw instead of autogun and without marks to leave them cheap and dirty.

 

Zombies on the other hand are just indestructible! You can do everything you can do with cultists and more!

[Excessus]

Cultists have Ld8, because of their champion. I usually use one or two small units of cultists to have some cheap, throwaway unit to sacrifice if the need arises. Objective grabbing is just one of their many many uses.

 

Assulting a Tau unit, sure, let the cultists go in first. Is there something that threatens to assault your shooty units, let the cultists be in the way and take that first assault in the face...sure they'll run away, might kill something with overwatch too...and then their assault unit is within rapid fire range to get taken apart piece by piece. Are the enemy shooting at your cultists? Let them, then they are not shooting with those units at your more valuable units. Your lord is stuck in a challenge alone? Charge your cultists into the fray to give him rerolls! Need some cover for your power armoured guys? Let the cultists march first and provide a mobile 5+ cover save against those nasty rending eldar guns or whatever...

 

...and lots of other little uses! In many games, they do an unproportionate amount of damage. Every shot counts...even from autopistols and a flamer...

[Deadman Wade]

Flamers are must-have for big units, IMO. I always wanted some for CSM squads, but always felt that plasma is better overall, and cultists can take up to three to burn some orks :)

[Tenebris]

Initially I have not fielded them, preferring 20 Daemonettes and a Herald but when I switched to Cultists it was a gamechanger for me. I play on boards quite covered in terrain thus this meager excuses for servants of Chaos always get a great save against most things that fly toward them. I use them in a similar way to my not upgraded IG platoon, as bubble warp for vehicles, as an unit in reserves for objective grabbing from turn three on, as a cheap stopgap unit if I am fighting melee armies, as a wall of flesh to cover the advance of my much deadlier CSM, as cheap 20 ablative wound for my killer characters and so on...

 

For meager 90 points I dare say that the cultists are one of the best units in our codex. 10 of them is a bit too few but when you double that number, now they become a high threat, a nuisance and a damn handy unit to have around. In one of my lists I fielded with great success two squads of 20, one with the Apostle and another with a cheap Lord and I have run them in front of my three Rhinos with CSM.

 

Oh the look on my opponents face when his Orks were charged by a whole lot of this flea ridden flesh bags with rerolls due to Zeal...

 

I find that is always better to blanket the board with them, like a living wall. It gives you some cover, the adversary has to dispose of them if he wants to assault your tanks and they work in concert with an Undivided list. You only need a Fearless character and here hands down the Apostle is king, for those rerolls are SO good when used by cultists. 

 

PS: My cultist champion killed a DW Terminator Sergeant in duel and got Spawned...oh the laughs and the pride...

 

Oh and unless you insult them at every turn is not fun at all having them...

[Zeroed]

That does sound lovely, all of it.. however, I would've preferred the opportunity to 'promote' them to a traitor guard squad.. hand out a few lasrifles and flak armour, but let them do the very same work.. and honestly, I don't think the lord or the apostle would care whether they are a ragged band of crazed cultists or some little humans that like to pretend they're soldiers.. I mean, inferior is inferior, right?

but, I guess I could still use allies for that.. meh..

insulting them? Anyone remember 'Dungeon Keeper'?

[Sedekiel]

AekoldHelbrass & Excessus  A Nightlord and an Alpha Legionaire arguing about the usefulness of cultists...The Nightlord thinks that they are meatshields and the alpha legionaire thinks they can be herded ....

 

It does not get more RP than this...Hat's off

[Ammonius]

So, as an entry point to begin fielding cultists, should I paint up 40 minimum?

 

Has anyone used large numbers of autogun cultists?

[minigun762]

There is something about the balance of 20 cultists with 2 flamers for 100 points that I find pleasing to the eye.

[Ammonius]

There is something about the balance of 20 cultists with 2 flamers for 100 points that I find pleasing to the eye.

*snrk!*

I just imagined a 40-man Kill team :)

 

Good times!

[zyl-]

They only come in 35 large groups.

 

That said, I was very suprised when I used auto gun cultists vs a Blood Angels drop pod army and they.. killed marines. A whole drop pod full of them, actually. He actually had to use his jump pack death company to come kill them. He did get that objective, but I got the laughs.. and the game. Or there's the classic, "nova charge, large blast str9 at your cultists." Yeah, I'll take that.. what some are still left on the objective? Better ramp up the big guns Mr. Tau.

[Ammonius]

In the league I play in, you can have 0-2 troop choices, so I'd take 2 groups of 20 with 2 flamers each.

 

<edit: numbers are hard>

[Prot]

I know we talked about this Minigun , but as you know I've played both daemon allies and cultists. To this day as much as I despise the little whelps they make it easier to get three troops in the list especially if you go with elite troops like Plague Marines.

 

There is nothing easier than plopping 15 of them on an Aegis gun and that way they -always- have a role. There are some good tips above for you to get you started, but I would say at least try them... I mean really try them.

[Pariah Mk.231]

AekoldHelbrass & Excessus  A Nightlord and an Alpha Legionaire arguing about the usefulness of cultists...The Nightlord thinks that they are meatshields and the alpha legionaire thinks they can be herded ....

 

It does not get more RP than this...Hat's off

 

Then allow an Iron Warrior to suggest using them to swarm enemy shooty units, giving your marines the chance to focus their attention on the important targets.

[Sception]

The problem with that is that they're too slow.  By the time they're swarming enemy backfield units, your marines have already been shot to death.  That's a job for spawn & maulers, or allied flesh hounds, fiends, or daemonic cavalry.

[minigun762]

The problem with that is that they're too slow.  By the time they're swarming enemy backfield units, your marines have already been shot to death.  That's a job for spawn & maulers, or allied flesh hounds, fiends, or daemonic cavalry.

 

Could it be viewed as the reverse?

Fast movers hold down the enemy units while cultists pile in and keep them in combat.

[Sception]

Games not long enough. Once the fast stuff is in, the enemy shooting squads are generally done for the game. With the possible exception of individual fast jammers working alone (lets say, a mauler in a solo charge), even if an enemy backfield unit does fight its way out, there isn't any game left to shoot in.

 

The exception would be for red corsairs armies running huron, who could buy the cultists a turn or two via infiltrate. That, and maybe outflanking cultists with a slaaneshi cavalry lord, but between rolling for reserves and being unable to charge the turn they come on, shooty units have again probably done their damage by that point, and since they spent a turn or more off the board, that was a turn or two of the enemy not being distracted by them. Outflanking a big blob of cultists can still be a good move, but it's good for threatening enemy objectives, not for jamming enemy shooty squads to protect vulnerable allied units. At least, far as I can tell.

 

So, uses for cultists:

 

Large squads jamming via huron's infiltrate

 

large squads escorting fearless infantry beefcakes like abby or Khârn (typhus uses zombies)

 

large squads outflanking via slaaneshi lords to threaten enemy backfield objectives

 

small squads held in reserve to go to ground on your own backfield objectives

 

 

pistols or rifles seem like fair choices either way for any of those rolls. Any of the aggressive squads should take flamers, the backfield ones might consider stubbers, but I'm more skeptical of those, since they'll likely be going to ground most of the time.

[HJL]

I use 2 squads of 30 with 3 flamers in each. They run in 2 huge blobs up the field offering cover to everything behind. I then take a couple of sorcs and hope for invis. When it works I get 2 sets of invis units with 2+ cover saves running behind some worthless cultists.

[Sedekiel]

I dont use cultists personally...(silly of me). I would Imagine that a cheap unit could work as a Tank "bumper" (pref a predator) to avoid melee and to obscure the tank.

[totgeboren]

That is exactly what I use. I always include a squad of around 15 to act as objective holder at home and meatshield for my Predator too. They have actually saved it a few times by giving it a 5+ cover save, so that's points well spent. And it always amuses me to say "Remember Human Shield, protect our tanks and planes too!" :D

 

 

If only there was some way of keeping cultists in front of rhinos whilst going full speed...

[Tenebris]

Cultists are good as long as you abuse their numbers and you know how to play with mass, squishy and worthless infantry (IG I love you). My usual tactic when I employ a footslogging force is to use the poor cultists as a blanket for my valuable PA infantry. Before you can chew to my marines you have to go trough the cultists first. I do this in two ways, the first I field two blobs of twenty with a Fearless character in there, the second I use multiple squads of ten but I rotate them in the front. 

 

The second use of my cultists is a cheap objective holders. I usually put my objective in a ruin and this is going to be their bastion. I move them there, I go to the ground and here they stay until game's end or the bitter end. But as long as they contend the objective they serve me well. The objective thing becomes very tricky when you play the Relic, but here a blob of 20 cultists is golden. Just have a Fearless character in there and you can hold the Relic for at least two turns, heavy enemy artillery included. 

 

The third way to play cultists IMO is to bubble warp vehicles but since I rarely play vehicles nowadays, preferring mass infantry, I seldom use this tactic. The bubble warp is simply a cover save and if you play it right it can keep your vehicles around for a turn more than the usual. 

 

Pure assault is my favorite use of the cultists. Pair them with a Dark Apostle, a killer Lord or a destructive character like Khârn and see them prosper. Those twenty bodies almost guarantee that your character will reach the enemy lines and by doing so they have already returned their points. But if the cultists actually get stuck into combat than between their numbers and the character special rules they become a fearsome prospect. The trick is to keep the cultist champion alive for if he is dead than your character has to challenge and in the case of Khârn or similar lords, they are wasted for an entire turn. 

 

I have found flamers overall the best upgrade but even so, only on those squads that will get to stay on the objectives. In a pure assault role they simply run 2/3 times and you get at best one use of the Flamer in the entire game. 

[Brother Aiwass]

I mostly ignored cultists but a month ago started to look at them like DarkMech Skitarii following a Titan Knight/Defiler. One big triflamer squad bubblewrapping the knight, and the other one with autoguns holding some home objective.

Pure optimized? Maximum effectiveness? No, but looks fun enough for me