Zynk Kaladin Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I don't know exactly for sure if I can call it "official", but it seems the new C:SM vanguards are a lot cheaper points-wise: Also from Dakka, Vangaurd down by 6 Points, can take jump pack for 3 points, and have been moved to elites. Hello Sword Brethren with Swords and Storm Shields. M2C Quote: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/278011-new-codex-space-marines-rumor/page-31?do=findComment&comment=3415773 Dakka Thread: http://www.dakkadakk...230/543907.page Obviously this doesn't prove BA VV will necessarily get a points reduction(we probably won't considering devastators and tactical marines), but hypothetically if we did get a FAQ how would this effect our lists? Doing some rough math: 20 points per VV - 6 points + 3 points for JP = 17 points for a JP VV? Am I doing this wrong?! That's ~170+15(serg PW) points for a naked 10 man JP VV squad. At that point cost VV become less of an over-costed denial unit and more of a credible turn 2 threat, especially with our BA rules. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Base cost for VV are 95 for 5 - which means 19 points. So, 22 with JP. I highly, highly doubt BA will see any of these reductions- as much sense as it would make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Our current codex got outdated so fast ... unbelivable for GW standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Just take them as allies instead. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new marine codex until we get the full details, it's a Cruddace 'dex after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Our current codex got outdated so fast ... unbelivable for GW standards Pants isn't it. I don't like to moan when other people get new toys but it is getting harder and harder with our 'dex. New edition was an overall nerf, but you could deal with that, but now everybody else has become so cheap (baring in mind BA were expensive anyway!). Seems GW are making everything so cheap points wise allowing for more model sales.....meaning ,more £££ in the coffers. Compare the Vanilla VV packs to our Death Co packs, makes me shed a tear. P-A-N-T-S!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Doesn't it just make every victory that much better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Doesn't it just make every victory that much better? Hah! It sure does! :P Always funny when people point out (after a defeat) "how damn OP and broken" those blood angels are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 That's really the only thing I am very jealous of vanguard vets are just such a blood-angely unit, they really personify our chapter perfectly - dropping in with jump packs blazing, charging into the fray and saving the day! Allying them is a lot less fun, because they don't get DoA. But at least we get new models, add some DC bits and they're gonna look amazing I'm sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Ive never had an issue with sharing or not getting toys - i think we have what we have and other chapters/dexs can have what they have. What really grates my cheese is when the same things we have are represented unequally. That just does my head in. Same as 4th/5th ed - NOOO reason to have different storm shield abilities, or different costed weapons in exactly the same squads, etc. Just annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I can't see them adjusting the price of our VV until we get a new codex. That said we can start to get an idea of what to expect when we do get one! Those Prices really do make VV appealing, even more so with blood angel rules! We just have to be patient, our turn will come. Until then we can always ally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Urgh. If you're right then we'll pay roughly the same cost for half the unit size... this is, in all honesty, why I partially wish they'd kept the old codex system where the variant chapters were supplements to the main SM book - consistency. As Mort says, there's no call for standardised equipment to work completely differently in some books to others, and points costs should also be roughly the same (maybe compensating slightly for army special rules). Like the old "blue storm shields work better than green, red, black or grey storm shields" debacle. No issues whatsoever with not sharing some units though, as there's no point in the variant chapters being "Space Marines with more options". But... 3 points for a jump pack? Seriously? 3? The cheapest we can pay for adding a jump pack to something is more than triple that... Still, my BA shall soldier on regardless, and continue to punch holes the foes of the imperium! For Sanguinius, and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I can see one justification in such an enormouse point reduction compared to our VV and that is FoC Slot, where in SM they might compete with other options while in BA codex FAST is not that "hot" I just wonder that how many of you would take cheap VV's over SP's or DP Fragiousos.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Depends entirely on whether they retain their assault-on-deep-strike ability. DP-dread or DP-Sternguard will do a bit of damage and then get shot into next week. Vanguard will drop, charge, get stuck in and be safe from shooting, ideally rampaging round the opponent's backfield. I'd take cheap Vanguard Vets with the ability to assault out of reserve, with our reliabilty for getting them in and on-target, instead of podnaughts any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnus Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'd probably still keep 1 podded Fragioso, but I'd definitely include a squad of Vanguard over Sternguard at those prices. I'd take 10 and combat squad every game, to get the most out of the FoC. Or if playing 2k, use doubles. Its relatively easy to build a list with 4 troops and 2 HQs after all, and then you could get a LOT of Vanguard. In this edition, nothing quite says F-You like a squad with decent weapons that comes with re-rolls to reserves and scatters D6, then charges the same turn. I'm pretty sure no one in my local would have a clue how to handle that, they're all concerned with how to get a third turn of shooting in against my melee units as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Doesn't it just make every victory that much better? Hah! It sure does! Always funny when people point out (after a defeat) "how damn OP and broken" those blood angels are.... We need to talk sir as I have never heard that said about my BA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Doesn't it just make every victory that much better? Hah! It sure does! Always funny when people point out (after a defeat) "how damn OP and broken" those blood angels are.... We need to talk sir as I have never heard that said about my BA! heh, they say the same thing about my angels in our LGS! Fragiosos and stormravens make everyone cry like babies... sweet sweet tears :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomkapow Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 If I can fit the new sky fire tank(s?), new vanguard vets, and maybe a psycher for >~400 points they'd instantly be my ally choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Ive never had an issue with sharing or not getting toys - i think we have what we have and other chapters/dexs can have what they have. What really grates my cheese is when the same things we have are represented unequally. That just does my head in. Same as 4th/5th ed - NOOO reason to have different storm shield abilities, or different costed weapons in exactly the same squads, etc. Just annoying. You are a better man than I. I am still chapped at having to share the Stormraven with anyone other than the GK. I'm sure I'm going to find this VV thing frustrating. I always felt that our cheaper VVs were balanced by the 5 point Storm Shield tax that we have to pay (that 5 point tax doesn't seem as fair now that our FNP bubbles are not as good in this edition). If the vanilla VV end up having a cheaper base cost, cool synergies from chapter tactics, and have significantly cheaper SS upgrades I'm going to be a little grumpy. The silver lining comes from how GW has made 'death from above' one of the principle ideologies that differentiate the BA. In any future BA codex, our VV are likely to be better than vanilla VV. So the better/more effective that the Vanilla VV are, the better our future VV will be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Ive never had an issue with sharing or not getting toys - i think we have what we have and other chapters/dexs can have what they have. What really grates my cheese is when the same things we have are represented unequally. That just does my head in. Same as 4th/5th ed - NOOO reason to have different storm shield abilities, or different costed weapons in exactly the same squads, etc. Just annoying. You are a better man than I. I am still chapped at having to share the Stormraven with anyone other than the GK. I'm sure I'm going to find this VV thing frustrating. I always felt that our cheaper VVs were balanced by the 5 point Storm Shield tax that we have to pay (that 5 point tax doesn't seem as fair now that our FNP bubbles are not as good in this edition). If the vanilla VV end up having a cheaper base cost, cool synergies from chapter tactics, and have significantly cheaper SS upgrades I'm going to be a little grumpy. The silver lining comes from how GW has made 'death from above' one of the principle ideologies that differentiate the BA. In any future BA codex, our VV are likely to be better than vanilla VV. So the better/more effective that the Vanilla VV are, the better our future VV will be! Unless they become 'too good' and have to get hit with changes when it comes to redoing them for other chapters. See the TH/SS slip with vanilla marines which caused us to have to pay points for the upgrade rather than a straight swap on our assault terminators. At present, BA are the only chapter that can make justifiable use of vanguard vets via DoA, and I doubt we'll see a price rise for use purely because 'they're BA' - Descent of Angels is part of our variant on Chapter Tactics (along with Red Thirst), so we shouldn't be expected to pay more for certain units just because they gel with our army better than with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Also - current rumours for the vanilla SM dex have them coming down by 7 points for the JP cost and 2 points for the basic cost, meaning a squad of 5 for them with jump packs will cost only marginally more than a squad of 5 without for us. Difference is heroic intervention is completely changed to ignoring disordered charge penalties, and sergeant automatically passes the rule that lets him jump into a challenge (glorious intervention? too lazy to go find my rulebook and check the name). No more assaulting out of deep strike. That makes the massive points drop feel a lot better to me, dunno about anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Latest rumours say that heroic intervention is now not getting the disordered charge penalty, and the sarge can always pass his glorious intervention roll. Rumours also say they lose the ability to strike after the strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Latest rumours say that heroic intervention is now not getting the disordered charge penalty, and the sarge can always pass his glorious intervention roll. Rumours also say they lose the ability to strike after the strike. Beat you to it by an hour, Mort (look up :P). Wonder if they'll FAQ the rules change across... doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 That's paying a premium to fix just one of the nerfs to assault squads in 6th. I still don't see them being useful. Maybe Marine players will now talk about how our VV are overpowered because of the assault from deep strike thingy? :P Raven guard chapter trait on the other hand looks very useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teblin Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just take them as allies instead. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new marine codex until we get the full details, it's a Cruddace 'dex after all. Or, if you really want to, use your Blood Angels minis with the new SM Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 That explains the points cost!! Still a good ability for a large squad but I would rather keep it the same. Best get my use out of it before we get updated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.